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Rufas2000 -> Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 8:08:08 AM)

I'm concerned about a trend I've seen among people I know concerning church attendance. In point of fact attending church doesn't seem to be as much a priority from my point of view. I most definitely include myself in that. I am planning to write a My Space blog entry about this and would like the insight of the denizens here at the forum.

First let me assure you this isn't a judgment thing for me. The issue kinda hit home when a friend of mine left the church he had been very happy at. He had not been going to church due in part to his inability to drive there. There were a number of reasons why I couldn't give him a ride, including being a minimum of 15 minutes from his house.

Anyway some friends of his including myself encouraged him to attend the Baptist church within walking distance but he refused, saying he didn't like the people. Well he met a couple of the people that went to the church and also met a romantic interest that went there so he started going. He really enjoyed it and felt a part of it. This continued for over a year. But the potential relationship didn't work out and eventually he had a dispute with some of the "senior" members and stopped going. Now he is kinda churchless again (I think he has visited a smaller church 20 minutes away from his house a few times on Wednesday nights).

The reason I tell the story is so that you'll know my heart concerning this. I think going to the right church is enjoyable and it makes me sad that people are missing out. And of course the support of others helps with our Christian walk.

So I was looking for feedback on the following:

Have you noticed declining church attendance?

If you have what factors cause people to stay away? Which ones are unavoidable life issues and which ones are issues of choice?

What if anything could the church do in order to increase attendance WITHOUT watering down the Gospel message or compromising?

Related to the last one: Is the church partly to blame for the declining attendance?

Finally, what societal factors may be influencing this decline in attendance, if it exists?

By the way by "the church" I mean the group of churches that claim to preach the message of Jesus Christ and at least usually appear to be doing so. Or based on their denomination and/or reputation one would expect them to be doing so.

Thank you so much for your feedback in advance.



dianetavegia -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 8:25:17 AM)

Good Topic. Here's my opinion.

Have you noticed declining church attendance?
Yes. Both Sunday School and church attendance, baptisms and new members have all dropped drastically in the last few years.

If you have what factors cause people to stay away? Which ones are unavoidable life issues and which ones are issues of choice?
Service times. Change in style of worship and style of music.
Change in sermon styles. By this I mean a church that is used to old fashioned sermons suddenly having topic type sermons which are advertized months in advance.

Unavoidable would be health related.
Choice would be staying home because the service no longer meets a need.

What if anything could the church do in order to increase attendance WITHOUT watering down the Gospel message or compromising?
Visitation! Contacts! We missed you, phone calls! Returning the style service to what the majority of the church prefers. Returning the style music, the time of service, the sermon type to what the majority prefers.

Related to the last one: Is the church partly to blame for the declining attendance?
YES. Church leadership cannot go with what is easy or comfortable for them, but should offer what fits the needs and desires of the congregation!

Finally, what societal factors may be influencing this decline in attendance, if it exists?
When churches water down or dumb down information in an effort to not step on toes, people think they have no need for church and no longer attend. The media gives us glimpses of what the 'world' is like, and most 'christians' are not like Californication or Desparate Housewives....... I'm okay. You're okay.



jazzact13 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 9:21:33 AM)

I think this is an issue, and a big one, and it's causes are probably several.

Some aspects of why people may avoid churches may things like this--bad experiences (at least in their own minds) in churches they have gone to before, work-related issues, discomfort with how some churches do things (for good or bad reasons), distance, real and supposed hypocracies among churchgoers, and simple human stubbornness and sin.

Although how the church does things may be important, but it's not the only thing, not by far. Considering the popularity of such as the WoF shoemen and Osteen's non-gospel-lite, we must be wary of thinking that declining numbers may mean real churches are doing things wrong.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 9:35:23 AM)

Thanks to both of you. This sort of feedback is exactly what I'm looking for. [:)]

I'll wait to see if more people respond before I respond more specifically.



drfuss -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 10:37:08 AM)

quote:

If you have what factors cause people to stay away? Which ones are unavoidable life issues and which ones are issues of choice?
Service times. Change in style of worship and style of music.
Change in sermon styles. By this I mean a church that is used to old fashioned sermons suddenly having topic type sermons which are advertized months in advance.


drfuss: I agree with the above. I have seen churches go through switches from primarily expository preaching/teaching to only topical preaching/teaching and then back to the other type for their next pastor. Eventually, only the current pastor's type of preaching/teaching is presented in the Bible study classes leaving many people not ministered to.

Even though the pastor is only good at one type, a good pastor will made sure that both types of preaching/teaching is provided so that all the people are ministered to. Ideally, the church should have another minister on staff with the other type of ministry than the pastor has. The problem is that a pastor of one type is usually too insecure to allow/provide ministry of the other type, for fear that a portion of the laymen will appreciate the one who provides the other type of ministry.

A pastor should realize that he/she is responsible to the church for providing both types of ministry. When people who are fed by one type of ministry are not fed at the church, they will go to another church where they are fed or get fed from ministers on TV programs which will ultimately cause them to be less interested in going to church.



FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 10:56:44 AM)

It has been my observation that corporate worship alone is too stagnant. The preacher can preach the most stirring of sermons, offer deep spiritual insight and the truth of Scripture and that's simply not enough.

I wasn't alive 50 years ago but I do think that overall church attendance was up in those days. There was an importance on at least attending church. When more people attend church, that would correlate with being surrounded through the week with more people that felt that church was important. Which in turn would contribute to a "positive peer culture".

Phone calls, emails, and post cards of "we miss" you are nice, but they are "safe". And many times even when they are well meaning they often lack the relationship of "true care". (That's what I mean by corporate worship being stagnant).

For many reasons I believe that the "small group" set up is a great direction for the church to be going because it is relational. You don't encourage small groups to see how many of them you can establish, you encourage small groups for relationships to build. For instance, I don't care if someone misses me if I don't think they care about me and are genuine. If I KNOW people in a small group that I hear from through the week and spend time with and know I can call them when they are needed and I respond to them when they need me, there is a relationship there.

After all, wasn't Jesus in a small group? Didn't they attend the synagogue also?



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 11:22:45 AM)

quote:

For many reasons I believe that the "small group" set up is a great direction for the church to be going because it is relational.


My church is really pushing that. They refer to them as connection groups and we meet in people's homes or other non church venues. While I was hesitant at first I think that it is a big part of the reason why it works. It develops true friendships as opposed to church friends. I suppose the local YMCA where we meet as a church is also a non church venue.

As I alluded to earlier, so far it appears to be successful.

Thanks again.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 11:46:33 AM)

Help me out with expository and topical. I'm assuming topical means some specific issue or situation. An example would be how to have a successful marriage. Therefore would expository be more about theology, like what does the Bible say about spiritual gifts.

I believe teaching means to help someone understand a concept and preaching would be to encourage that person to act on that knowledge. Or preaching would be like coaching, encouraging and challenging people to do better.

Any thoughts on agenda driven sermons? Like when a pastor begins a new outreach program he spends a few weeks on a series discussing the importance of reaching others with the Gospel. I think its fine as long as it doesn't go too far. My pastor does that quite a bit.

Thanks for the help.



FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 12:24:12 PM)

A mark of good leadership is informing those you are leading the benefits of taking them a certain way.
When dealing with people that are more acquainted with traditional church meetings as the only form of fellowship it would be important to teach about close relationships and the different levels they can be.

Topical sermons would be more "what does the Bible say about a specific subject". Expository (think expose) get's into some of the deeper meanings for instance John 21:15-19 uses the word "love" and expository sermon would further explain that the three instances of the question "Peter do you love me?" were three different words in the original language with specific meanings.



LBolt -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 12:58:20 PM)

I think small groups is Biblical and a great way to disciple. The issue I've heard brought up was that some pastors are leery about potential church splits/ divisions in the local assembly.

I currently attend a very small assembly of congregants. My previous church was 3-4,000. It's great because there is an opportunity to ask questions, receive personal ministry and have that family atmosphere. Although in large churches, the way you connect with othrs is typical through serving in an area of ministry and fellowshipping outside of service.

Could the decline in church also be a sign of the end times? Didn't Paul say that there would be a "falling away" first...?



drfuss -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/2/2008 1:31:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rufas2000

Help me out with expository and topical. I'm assuming topical means some specific issue or situation. An example would be how to have a successful marriage. Therefore would expository be more about theology, like what does the Bible say about spiritual gifts.

I believe teaching means to help someone understand a concept and preaching would be to encourage that person to act on that knowledge. Or preaching would be like coaching, encouraging and challenging people to do better.

Any thoughts on agenda driven sermons? Like when a pastor begins a new outreach program he spends a few weeks on a series discussing the importance of reaching others with the Gospel. I think its fine as long as it doesn't go too far. My pastor does that quite a bit.

Thanks for the help.


drfuss: Most sermons are a combination of espository and topical and can best be defined by extremes. Extreme expository sermons would be studying scriptures with an exposition of each scripture with little or no application (Bible study only). Extreme topical sermons involve talking about a topic with few, if any, single scriptures that would be used to support the minister's mesage. Most people don't want the extreme type sermons, but most people are fed primarily by one or the other general types of sermon.

THe problem is that most pastors believe their type sermon is the only type the people need. After a few years, this results in the unfed people becoming tired of the sermons, leading to discontent and complaining, resulting in some no longer attending. IMO, I think pastors don't understand this because they don't want to understand it, because they would then have to address the problem. They tend to blame the discontent and complaining on something else. I am not saying this is the whole problem. But over the years, I have seen a number of churches what this is a main problem.

Let me say it again, the pastor should ensure that both types of sermons/teaching is provided so that all the people can be fed.



davemiller7 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/3/2008 4:20:48 PM)

The small groups I've been associated with have been little more than social gatherings. I think the idea is good, but there needs to be a knowledgeable person to lead the group. This was the problem with the ones I attended. Whenever a real theological issue was raised, the leader didn't have an answer, the talk was taken over by a chatterbox, then we all had coffee and cake and went home. Not very fulfilling.

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues

For many reasons I believe that the "small group" set up is a great direction for the church to be going because it is relational. You don't encourage small groups to see how many of them you can establish, you encourage small groups for relationships to build. For instance, I don't care if someone misses me if I don't think they care about me and are genuine. If I KNOW people in a small group that I hear from through the week and spend time with and know I can call them when they are needed and I respond to them when they need me, there is a relationship there.

After all, wasn't Jesus in a small group? Didn't they attend the synagogue also?



davemiller7 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/3/2008 4:26:37 PM)

I've noticed a decline in attendance also, at both the traditional and the contemporary services. Sunday school is down, as is Bible study. I think it's due to "watered down" sermons and societal issues such as the church's wishy-washy stand on homosexuality.

-Dave



teclils -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/3/2008 5:42:00 PM)

most of the people I have talked to about why they do not go to church anymore is that they are tired of the Same ole same ole...you know the playing church thing...there is no MEAT to the church anymore...



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/9/2008 11:33:08 PM)

First off, thanks again for all the replies. I haven't got around to writing the blog yet but I will. Probably.

I'm writing this to update everyone on the friend I mentioned in the original post. I requoted it here for conveience sake.

quote:

Anyway some friends of his including myself encouraged him to attend the Baptist church within walking distance but he refused, saying he didn't like the people. Well he met a couple of the people that went to the church and also met a romantic interest that went there so he started going. He really enjoyed it and felt a part of it. This continued for over a year. But the potential relationship didn't work out and eventually he had a dispute with some of the "senior" members and stopped going. Now he is kinda churchless again (I think he has visited a smaller church 20 minutes away from his house a few times on Wednesday nights).


Well I am happy to report that he has gone back to that church. Praise God. He decided that he as well as his daughter were not going to miss out on going to a church he enjoyed based on a dispute with one elder member (they talked and agreed to let the dispute go) and a gentleman who was in charge of something there but went to another church. He also said that many church members called and came out to visit him and he was very gratified about that. This church did its job and they got back a very grateful member. Isn't God incredible.

Just thought I'd share.



crankius -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/10/2008 11:42:28 AM)

quote:

Have you noticed declining church attendance?


No. Our church has been increasing.

quote:

What if anything could the church do in order to increase attendance WITHOUT watering down the Gospel message or compromising?


I can tell you what has drawn people to the church I attend.

Emphasis on Bible teaching - The pastor preaches expository and topically. He preaches through a book of the Bible, and then he preaches on a topic for a while, and then goes back to a book of the Bible. We just recently finished Colossians, and now he is doing a series looking at Jesus in the old testament—comparing passages from the new testament that point to passages in the old testament. His preaching is very teaching oriented, meaty, packed.

Biblical leadership structure - In addition, the church structure is solid, with a plurality of elders and a group of deacons. There are lots of men excited to serve and participating throughout the church.

Great Commission opportunities - The church has adopted a village in Africa and regularly sends teams there to share the gospel, and they do local community service to reach the community here at home.

Small Church – The church intends to stay small (maybe less than 300 or so). They already are working on starting a new church plant.


But most importantly, I’d say the focus of the church on Scriptural studies and doctrinal understanding has given it a solid foundation—like when Ezra read the law in Nehemiah, and all the people repented and committed themselves to following the Lord.

Also, the church was started about four years ago to fill this need in the area—so it is still in the early stages and still bringing in people who are needing a Bible based fellowship.


Other churches in the area are decreasing, and I'll post about that next.



crankius -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/10/2008 11:53:45 AM)

The main reason why other churches in the area are decreasing is because of UNQUALIFIED LEADERSHIP.

I think this is a major flaw of the church today. Pastors who are not Biblically qualified bring all sorts of errors into the church.

A quick list of some errors that occur with bad leadership--

lording over the flock (this is a big one)
pride
not emphasizing Biblical teaching
desiring to grow by numbers and not emphasizing growth in the Lord and knowledge of Scripture
looking for new methods to make the church bigger, better, more impressive
appointing others to leadership based on their relationship with them rather than based on Biblical qualifications
the church becomes all about them--protecting their position, building political alliances, pushing their own agenda, etc.

And then they gripe and complain about all those who are leaving the church. [&:]

Once bad leadership takes hold of a church, I think it is nearly impossible for the church to make a healthy turnaround. It may survive for many years, but it won't be healthy.

Edit to add another point: often, a bad leader is serving under the pastor, but the pastor refuses to address the problems with the bad leader. Then the people become divided--those who see the problems with the bad leader, and those who don't see the problems with the bad leader. The pastor, by refusing the address the problem head on, creates a hostile environment, and the church is either split or just simply suffers in agony. [8D]



OleFitzHi -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/13/2008 6:32:06 AM)

To respond to the OP....

The time of service is a biggie to me...

Saturday night services are appropriate. People who have Saturday off have enough time to rest and feel ready for worship. It's not good if you are bone-tired and yawning on Sunday morning...



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/13/2008 9:39:48 AM)

quote:

The time of service is a biggie to me...

Saturday night services are appropriate. People who have Saturday off have enough time to rest and feel ready for worship. It's not good if you are bone-tired and yawning on Sunday morning...


Its a biggie for me too. My church will start a noon service this Sunday. Now they have 9 AM, 10:30 AM and Noon. I like a Saturday night service idea better but being at the YMCA they have to "put the sanctuary together" on Saturday night.

I miss Sunday night services, though the idea was for the Sunday night service to be in addition to the morning service I used it as an "in lieu of". Usually they attracted the church regulars without many of the casual folk who came on Sunday morning and that was it for the week.

Thanks to the responders.



dyluck -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/13/2008 4:40:40 PM)

Ok I noticed that Rufas2000 is writing a blog about importance of church attendance... Prepared to blog about the unity of the body of Christ. And nobody throws out the word! This is rather upsetting...
Lets look in the word about the importance of Church and give him some food for his blog!

I submit to you, that a sign of true conversion is you cannot be without church!

I have seen terribly poor people still make it to church
"Church is too early on Sunday" - WAKE UP!, is God and the body of Christ not important enough to crawl out of bed for?? I would re-evaluate your salvation!
"I work Sunday" - Find another job, do you not trust that God will provide? Proverbs 3:5 and most of all Matthew 6:26
"Church is too far away" - Find another church closer then... Don't care for the doctrine... then move. (do not slander them, see below).
"That church is a bunch of hypocrites" - Read 1 John 4:7-21 James 4:11 - These statements are a wakeup call! (brother is fellow Christians)

Rufas2000 I will help you find some more versus in conjunction about the importance of church. I have to get ahold of this pastor, but check out this sermon, its a good shoe in on this subject.

Love the Church

He has a good blog on what is "Post Denominational" is ->
What is Post Denomination
People who believe church is not a necessary in our walk with Christ... these are the people that don't go to church and say "as long as I have a personal relationship with Jesus" I can find biblical proof that this is a heresy. This belief is a lie from the pit and will lead people straight to hell.

Please stand by for my next post Rufas2000, I will find you some biblical meat for your blog! I praise the lord for your perseverance on the importance of this subject.

God Bless!



zamdad -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/13/2008 7:55:09 PM)

quote:

"I work Sunday" - Find another job, do you not trust that God will provide? Proverbs 3:5 and most of all Matthew 6:26


Yes, I trust God provided me with the job I have. As a result of my job, occasionaly I have to wear my uniform to church (police officer). Due to some personal things I have been going through, I have chosen not to go to church for a while. Last Sunday I returned to church looking forward to worshipping with my family. I was told by one of the leaders that having my gun on while in uniform made some people uncomfortable. He asked if I could leave the gun in the trunk of my car.

Would we ask this of another officer, visiting our church?



OleFitzHi -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/13/2008 10:33:11 PM)

Hope the OP doesn't mind if we detour this thread a little...

I found out this weekend that the Georgia Baptist Convention considers a person "unchurched" who hasn't attended church in six months, disregarding Christmas, Easter, weddings, funerals and other special events.

That means in six months, if one has not attended regular worship for no other reason but worship, then they are considered "unchurched."

I have been on and heard reports of many home visits where the people say that they are Christian and are members at a local church, but have not attended for quite some time. They are considered "unchurched." Many of these consider themselves saved despite aspects of their lifestyle that are clearly out of the will of God.

After six months of non-attendance, should they be removed from the church rolls and treated as "lost?" Are we doing them a disservice by allowing them the delusion of having the "covering" of the church, that all is well?



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/14/2008 12:00:02 PM)

quote:

Hope the OP doesn't mind if we detour this thread a little...


Nah, I'm the king of off topic. Off to church (albeit late).



rapturefish -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/14/2008 1:06:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rufas2000

In point of fact attending church doesn't seem to be as much a priority from my point of view.


Well we'll have to wait for you to expand on that one. What I can say is that because there are so many reasons why people don't attend regularly and sometimes those are valid and good reasons, it's best not to assume that all people are not making God a priority, which is in fact different to attending a church in a building. Sometimes through bad experiences and being overly and narrowly focused on church serving one would find a break from all that to be a good detox.

quote:

The issue kinda hit home when a friend of mine left the church he had been very happy at.


As always it's hard going only on the limited info given, but it sounds like some disillusionment has crept in due to the way the church responded to his situation. Obviously it wasn't to his liking, so he left. He probably finds it harder to stick with a church after being burnt. But as I said, hard to say. Some reasons for leaving a church simply aren't about doctrine but about church politics and expectations of laypeople clashing with clergy responses.

quote:

Have you noticed declining church attendance?

If you have what factors cause people to stay away? Which ones are unavoidable life issues and which ones are issues of choice?

What if anything could the church do in order to increase attendance WITHOUT watering down the Gospel message or compromising?

Related to the last one: Is the church partly to blame for the declining attendance?

Finally, what societal factors may be influencing this decline in attendance, if it exists?


Declining church attendance, generally yes amongst ageing and inward-looking churches. Yes also for those that are too flavour of the month, people come then people go because they 'feel it's time to move on' or in other words they're not being stimulated by the flashes and whistles anymore. Yes also for churches in general amongst a number of denominations.

What keeps them away? So much. Burnt by bad church experiences, irrelevance of church, church not connecting with men enough, didn't grow up in the church, secular society increasingly marginalises christians, people just want a break on Sunday, church politics, bad church culture, lack of community or love in church. Had a breakup with a girl, didn't feel edified by the message, didn't like the speaker, didn't like the music, church too boring. Half of these are legitimate and the church's fault. The other half are just picky little things due to the freedom to choose and being easier to change than to face problems and deal with them in the church and stay there.

The church can't just preach the gospel from a pulpit in a church building and feel it's done its part when it fails to connect with the community and show love to those outside the church. If love for Jesus isn't behind the most accurate gospel presentation then frankly it's not likely to be effective. There are many ways to bring in more people, but, worldly as it sounds, you have to aim for quality rather than quantity because when you do, you end up getting both. Jesus has to be central to it. Too many gimmicks or focus on the message delivery or multimedia or style of music and putting on a FACE - they will succeed in drawing people in, but will just as quickly have people out because it's only as good as your last gimmick, and the people won't reflect kingdom values well either.

Is the church to blame for declining attendance? YES. The church is wrong when it too quickly attributes it to the hard-heartedness of the heathen - that is simply an insult to the intelligence and realness of the outsiders for not being attracted. If there is any problem it has to be something the church is doing or not doing to turn the gospel into something it wasn't meant to be. It is the church that fails to connect, fails to love, fails to let the word of God speak on His terms, fails to let God take charge of the church and themselves. If they did, then they would see things similar to what the early church experienced. No, not all will end up being saved, but frankly I expect a lot more people to be attracted to Jesus if the church simply lets Jesus have His way.

I think of those who have been hurt or disappointed by church because the church failed to help them. When they leave, how often I hear, "Oh, they probably weren't christians to begin with." I say that that is a cop-out and a washing of hands by christians who simply aren't willing to entertain the fact that those who leave had good and valid reasons for doing so, and that to address those areas would be the right way for the church to improve.

Yes, the church is at the edges of society more now, and culturally it's even seen as borderline cult or laughingstock in some parts of the world, more and more. But it's the church that has failed to be relevant and communicate the person of Jesus and the love of God in today's language. I think christians also fail to be seen as being about bettering people in general, and instead forming a subculture that only allows outsiders to more easily be on the outside. I think christians forget a lot of the time (or are not even aware) of how weird they are a lot of the time to the world.

I think things like relationships and not finding a life partner, etc. will be a factor. So many christian girls marry non-christians because they can't seem to find good guys in the church. They are a universal minority, and the church has failed to proactively grow more men and get people to find life partners. It's a huge deal when you've been faithfully serving the church for most or all of your best younger years and found that at 30s or 40s you are still single, waiting for "the right time", hoping that as you simply focus on serving the right man or woman will turn up. No it doesn't work out that way for a lot of people, and the tragedy is that they are left with that emptiness in their lives. Is that fair? Get more men in the church, train them to be good christian men and get them to proactively grab a girl and not leave them spoiling. I don't blame the girls or guys for marrying non-christians too much because at times the church has put them in a situation where to find a christian life partner is nigh on par with winning the lottery.

Enough with the rhetoric about just serving the church and being faithful - the fact is, a lot of churches don't know a thing when it comes to living life, and they pass on their inexperience and cluelessness thinking just preaching the right words will do it. It won't. A person will come to God and they will need to know how that changes every part of their lives, from relationships to money, from career to sex and dealing with porn and addictions, and secular society.

The church has to look at itself first and stop dismissing the voices of outsiders and leavers. They above all people know where the church is failing because it has failed them and they can see outside it.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Declining Church Attendance? Help With Blog Im Writing (9/14/2008 1:47:16 PM)

quote:

Well we'll have to wait for you to expand on that one. What I can say is that because there are so many reasons why people don't attend regularly and sometimes those are valid and good reasons, it's best not to assume that all people are not making God a priority, which is in fact different to attending a church in a building. Sometimes through bad experiences and being overly and narrowly focused on church serving one would find a break from all that to be a good detox.


I agree, I don't make general assumptions about anyone's Christian walk unless I need to for the purpose of direct ministry. Just that Christians that I know used to put a great priority on being there most Sundays but now not so much. I put myself in that category but I've been doing better.

quote:

As always it's hard going only on the limited info given, but it sounds like some disillusionment has crept in due to the way the church responded to his situation. Obviously it wasn't to his liking, so he left. He probably finds it harder to stick with a church after being burnt. But as I said, hard to say. Some reasons for leaving a church simply aren't about doctrine but about church politics and expectations of laypeople clashing with clergy responses.


I don't have all the info myself. Being that I was just relating what was making me think about this I didn't feel a need to give all the info I do have, in case someone reading happens to go to that church and is aware of the situation. Unlikely but best not to take chances.

The great news is that, as I mentioned in post 15 he has returned to the church. Which makes him and therefore me very happy. a good church is a treasure.

Again, thanks.



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