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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 4:15:13 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneJohn410
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think people are misunderstanding. Not everyone can control their weight, even if they do all they can. I'm asking what you'd feel if you never liked weight like that, but now your spouse CANNOT lose it. I'm not working on the premise that weight can always be lost. It can't. They exercise more than enough; they always eat right, but there are other factors working against them that keeps the weight on. I understand that some men don't believe that this can happen biologically...and if that's true, this isn't the thread for ya. I'm not arguing for people to become inactive and have unhealthy eating habits. The truth is, you can do everything right and be overweight. I'm not suggesting this is true; I'm stating it is. The question for this thread is, if the spouse becomes overweight in a way that you're not attracted, or something else happens that's not changeable, then what?
Oh! I get it now. You mean all of a sudden science no longer has all the answers! All the studying, research, it's all useless when it comes to helping my beloved wife return to her beautiful self before the unexplainable happened! What would I do then??? Continue to love someone and maintain a marriage commitment, or do the Divorce Court opt out. I'm so sorry, I've made my responses too confusing. You are looking for short answers.
If the doorframes become too narrow, I'm getting my sledgehammer. Sledgehammer is my answer.
OneJohn410
Not necessarily a short answer. I'm not looking for "I'll help her lose it" or something to the effect that the weight is exiting. That's not (always) how it works. Perhaps I have too much experience with science, but science can't help all overweight people. Other than doing everything they can, there are just some 'fat' people who will stay fat despite efforts to lose. Maybe we can manually remove some. As long as they eat right and exercise and don't lose weight but are healthy, other than starvation/chemicals that are probably harmful, there's only so much that can be done for some overweight people. Take, for instance, enzymatic activity that's lacking. Sure, we can know it's there, but have no way to fix or correct it sometimes-- especially if we cannot synthsize it ourselves. Sometimes we can synthesize it in a form that's not usable (the body may need R glucose, but we can only synthesize S-- for example, and the body is very specific about chemical forms). A non-mutable gene could possibly be helped by creating complementary RNA...which would then signal the body to destroy dsRNA. They do this with certain things, but even that doesn't always work. Sometimes there's no answer.
I'm asking what happens when there is no "out.". If you believe that anyone and everyone can always lose weight, perhaps this isn't the right thread for you. (You being anyone.  ) I'm not asking how you'd help her lose weight. I'm asking what'd happen if she's one of the ones who can't lose it. It happens.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 4:20:09 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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solo, scientifically what percentages of the obese population can not lose weight despite diet and exercise? i think we all realize this is a possibility.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 4:30:48 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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that's pretty random ben. this thread is about women's weight increasing not men neglecting their families. also men can gain weight as well and it can be just a valid concern for the wife. it's just that far far fewer women care about their spouse's physical appearance compared to other things versus men. i think each person in a relationship should talk about their emotional needs before getting married.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 4:43:05 PM
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stamper_ben
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And I think the wife should know that the husband is not going to touch her if she gains beyond some predetermined limit. 
Side note:
I have really found this one and the thread in the Men Only folder quite sad actually...
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 9:43:40 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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i don't think that was the majority opinion ... i didn't post my experience nor i don't think i really gave my true thoughts ... but you did hear from men where this happened to them and sex life dropped ... if a women's libido drops because a man isn't fulfilling her emotional needs is she as to blame?
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 10:16:24 PM
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makarizo
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I have seen many of my friends' 'skinny' wives balloon up to gigantic proportions after giving birth a couple times. nothing seems to change in the love dept. I do not have one friend who has insulted his wife for gaining weight........ for smoking, yes.... for getting a job, yes....... for not cleaning up the house. yes........... for skipping church. yes.... but never do I hear a friend insult his wife for gaining weight.
speaking for myself.... I don't believe it would matter, but if it looked like a health issue, I would be an encourager, and not a criticizer.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/10/2008 10:47:37 PM
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Child4Jesus
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Solo,
Please when you have the time please explain some of these issues that can cause weight gain. I ask because I can't picture massive weight gain that isn't a result of eating too much. I tend to think it extremes at times. For me like I said I wouldn't divorce however it would be difficult to deal with. I marry a women who is 110 lbs. Over time she blows up to 320lbs, I would like to know what the heck was going on. Is she eating too much? Is it some medical issue that can't be helped?
So you need to explain some things because I can imagine any medical issue where a person literally can't lose any weight. Like if you started out at 130 lbs then go up to 200lbs. You run, bike, etc., 3x a week for year. You are eating healthy etc. You are telling me there are situations that such a person would still be 200lbs even after 1 year of this?
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The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/11/2008 1:54:24 AM
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OneJohn410
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneJohn410
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think people are misunderstanding. Not everyone can control their weight, even if they do all they can. I'm asking what you'd feel if you never liked weight like that, but now your spouse CANNOT lose it. I'm not working on the premise that weight can always be lost. It can't. They exercise more than enough; they always eat right, but there are other factors working against them that keeps the weight on. I understand that some men don't believe that this can happen biologically...and if that's true, this isn't the thread for ya. I'm not arguing for people to become inactive and have unhealthy eating habits. The truth is, you can do everything right and be overweight. I'm not suggesting this is true; I'm stating it is. The question for this thread is, if the spouse becomes overweight in a way that you're not attracted, or something else happens that's not changeable, then what?
Oh! I get it now. You mean all of a sudden science no longer has all the answers! All the studying, research, it's all useless when it comes to helping my beloved wife return to her beautiful self before the unexplainable happened! What would I do then??? Continue to love someone and maintain a marriage commitment, or do the Divorce Court opt out. I'm so sorry, I've made my responses too confusing. You are looking for short answers.
If the doorframes become too narrow, I'm getting my sledgehammer. Sledgehammer is my answer.
OneJohn410
Not necessarily a short answer. I'm not looking for "I'll help her lose it" or something to the effect that the weight is exiting. That's not (always) how it works. Perhaps I have too much experience with science, but science can't help all overweight people. Other than doing everything they can, there are just some 'fat' people who will stay fat despite efforts to lose. Maybe we can manually remove some. As long as they eat right and exercise and don't lose weight but are healthy, other than starvation/chemicals that are probably harmful, there's only so much that can be done for some overweight people. Take, for instance, enzymatic activity that's lacking. Sure, we can know it's there, but have no way to fix or correct it sometimes-- especially if we cannot synthsize it ourselves. Sometimes we can synthesize it in a form that's not usable (the body may need R glucose, but we can only synthesize S-- for example, and the body is very specific about chemical forms). A non-mutable gene could possibly be helped by creating complementary RNA...which would then signal the body to destroy dsRNA. They do this with certain things, but even that doesn't always work. Sometimes there's no answer.
I'm asking what happens when there is no "out.". If you believe that anyone and everyone can always lose weight, perhaps this isn't the right thread for you. (You being anyone. ) I'm not asking how you'd help her lose weight. I'm asking what'd happen if she's one of the ones who can't lose it. It happens.
A sledgehammer is a great first step on making sure the wheelchair of someone who can no longer walk around the house safely can still get around the house. Maybe you'd graciously plead our case with Extreme Home Makeovers?
How about you? What about when your man balloons out and can't lose the weight? Where the Big & Tall store is challenged to provide variety and style for him?
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RE: When looks change... - 9/11/2008 7:56:19 AM
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MAP2010
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When you meet some one you should not just like what they look like, you should want to become their friend. So when they lose their looks you will still have a close friend, with age we all lose our looks and change. Love is caring about the person and not about their looks.
Mark
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RE: When looks change... - 9/11/2008 8:20:46 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MAP2010
When you meet some one you should not just like what they look like, you should want to become their friend. So when they lose their looks you will still have a close friend, with age we all lose our looks and change.
very true ... our spouse should be our bestest friend ...
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RE: When looks change... - 9/11/2008 3:42:14 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MAP2010
So when they lose their looks you will still have a close friend, with age we all lose our looks and change. Love is caring about the person and not about their looks.
I'm not only marrying my best friend, I'm marrying my wife, my other half, my lover. Marriage and friendship are two different aspects, although friendship can be incorporated into marriage, it shouldn't be used as the same thing.
With age, we don't all lose our looks. Don't believe the ballyhoo. Again, things like age and obesity are becoming suitable excuses for it to be acceptable to let yourself go. I wasn't aware that after a certain age, I should suddenly stop caring what I look like.
Love is caring about a person which also means caring about their health and physical outline. If I loved my wife, and I noticed her eating her way into an unheathly lifestyle or not exercising at all, I wouldn't sit back and not say anything. That is not caring for your wife.
Men are called to love their wife more than their own bodies. You should, then, be more concerned about her physical health before anything else.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/11/2008 8:28:02 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
quote:
ORIGINAL: MAP2010
So when they lose their looks you will still have a close friend, with age we all lose our looks and change. Love is caring about the person and not about their looks.
I'm not only marrying my best friend, I'm marrying my wife, my other half, my lover. Marriage and friendship are two different aspects, although friendship can be incorporated into marriage, it shouldn't be used as the same thing.
With age, we don't all lose our looks. Don't believe the ballyhoo. Again, things like age and obesity are becoming suitable excuses for it to be acceptable to let yourself go. I wasn't aware that after a certain age, I should suddenly stop caring what I look like.
Love is caring about a person which also means caring about their health and physical outline. If I loved my wife, and I noticed her eating her way into an unheathly lifestyle or not exercising at all, I wouldn't sit back and not say anything. That is not caring for your wife.
Men are called to love their wife more than their own bodies. You should, then, be more concerned about her physical health before anything else.
Randy brings up a good point. it's not what you do after she gets into that shape that shows love. It's what you do to prevent her getting into that shape in the first place. Even in pregnancy a woman should maintain her physical fitness. There really is no excuse for massive weight gain.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 12:01:33 AM
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solo_soprano22
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Richad, I'm aware of some people that do what you've said, and appear to be in the 200-300 lbs (or more) weight range. I recall them being healthy eaters and running everyday-- most, if not all, running several miles. I'll have to post that later; forgetting names (and who did the researching) isn't helping me retrieve the information.
Inability to regulate may be due to uncoupling, mitochondrial respiration malfunctioning (proton/H+), single-nucleotide mutations (of mitochondria), and other things...such as a defective leptin receptors. (I'll remember more later, and post them as I do.) Perhaps, if you're interested and haven't already, you'd like to read up on the mechanisms and pathways that have to occur correctly in order to lose/gain/maintain fat. It's easier for me to understand just how much can go wrong when I know how complicated (or not) a process is. I believe there are many things that have the ability to keep a person from losing fatty tissue, because the molecular mechanisms that have to occur can be obstructed. One kink in the cycle and there's possibly no loss. I did a quick google search to see if I could find anything about how fat/carbs/sugars are burned and found this. It's not scientific or that in-depth, but I thought it was a decent overview. :) I read a short passage on wiki that complements that one a bit (the short part I'm linking to looks correct; I didn't read the entire entry.)
ETA: iwillfearnoevil, I'm not sure of stats I've seen for those who can and can't lose (medically). I think realistic ones may not exist, because there are so many different things that can account for this-- and we don't know them all (and know we don't know them all). If I come across one that's from a decent source, I'll post it.
< Message edited by solo_soprano22 -- 9/12/2008 1:40:07 AM >
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 3:18:47 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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Medical documented cases are as rare as Barney going around saying, "I hate everybody!"
When looking at a statistic of 50%+ of an obese nation, not ever percentile will be classified as a medical promotion for massive weight gain and the inability to lose it.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 3:32:30 AM
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MAP2010
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I think we are over looking the point of what I said, we should take care of ourselves but age is a factor. My 85 year old Grandfather no longer looks like his playboy self as when he service in the Merchant Marines when he was in hes 20's and 30's and even in his 40's or 50's, but he and my Grandmother still love and care for each other and friendship is key. 85 now and he cares for every need she has and that's a lot for a man at his age, but he still does it everyday as long as he still can. That's love and that's what we are missing.
Mark
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 8:51:00 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Richad, I'm aware of some people that do what you've said, and appear to be in the 200-300 lbs (or more) weight range. I'll have to post that later; forgetting names (and who did the researching) isn't helping me retrieve the information.
i don't think anecdotal evidence should be mixed with any of your scientific evidence ... it is easy for others to post many other names showing the opposite and i think you'll be greatly outnumbered ... is there a reason behind your question, i am curious as to what you are trying to conclude or get to ...
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 10:47:06 AM
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OneJohn410
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Hey guys,
Solo's already spelled it out... your wife has changed, and things have been tried to help her change back, and nothing works. Not only that, but she's changed in a way you've never liked before. So her question is what are you going to do now?
Look at post #26 and address that for her so we can figure out what she's wanting. She says there's no out.
Despite all your great arguments about other things, there's no out now, and she's heard stuff on Divorce Court that probably distresses her heart in ways as it does mine.
Please stay with OP's thoughts on this one.
OneJohn410
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 10:49:32 AM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Richad, I'm aware of some people that do what you've said, and appear to be in the 200-300 lbs (or more) weight range. I'll have to post that later; forgetting names (and who did the researching) isn't helping me retrieve the information.
i don't think anecdotal evidence should be mixed with any of your scientific evidence ... it is easy for others to post many other names showing the opposite and i think you'll be greatly outnumbered ... is there a reason behind your question, i am curious as to what you are trying to conclude or get to ...
I think you misunderstood. These people back up evidence; that's why they were being studied. :) (Obesity/medical studies sometimes use sectors of population to either prove, disprove, or test a hypothesis, but many medical studies do this...such as clinical trials.) I'm not saying that everyone has problems losing. I'm saying not all can do this; so yes, there are plenty of studies that document great weight loss. I'm not disputing/denying that. What I'm denying is that 100% of people can lose weight, or that they can lose as much or as well as everyone else.
As far as my reasoning (behind asking), I see a lot of men saying how they're unhappy because their wives gained weight, or something on them changed that wasn't that way when they first met. For example, they met, he was attracted to something, but years later... that somethinng is gone. I know men divorce over this sometimes (and women as well), but I'm wondering what happens when you cannot reverse what's happened. What happens if someone changes, but there's no bringing what what you were initially attracted to in the person? That's why I'm not looking for "well, as long as she loses it," or "I'll help her lose it," or "As long as she's trying to lose it..." answers. Sometimes people can't lose or bring back the old them....and it may happen to your spouse. (You being the generic you.  )
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 10:50:56 AM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneJohn410
Hey guys,
Solo's already spelled it out... your wife has changed, and things have been tried to help her change back, and nothing works. Not only that, but she's changed in a way you've never liked before. So her question is what are you going to do now?
Look at post #26 and address that for her so we can figure out what she's wanting. She says there's no out.
Despite all your great arguments about other things, there's no out now, and she's heard stuff on Divorce Court that probably distresses her heart in ways as it does mine.
Please stay with OP's thoughts on this one.
OneJohn410
Lol. I'm not that distressed I don't think; I'm more just wondering how Christian men would deal.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 11:50:45 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think you misunderstood. These people back up evidence; that's why they were being studied. :)
i understood, there's just more studies and more people on the other side of the argument who have lost weight.
to stay on topic, i would not divorce my wife in the scenario you describe.
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RE: When looks change... - 9/12/2008 5:34:37 PM
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solo_soprano22
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I actually thought of something totally different that a thread in Health/Fitness made me think about...and this I do know from personal experience within my own body. There are physical conditions that keep someone from exercising from the stomach down. The severity of the conditions will dictate this though. Some women have it mildly and can still function like a normal woman; some women are bad enough that they simply can't get out of bed. Other women can do things for only so long (for example, they may be able to walk, run, bike, swim for a few seconds/minutes a day)...it just depends on how bad the conditions are in the specific women. And, sadly, some fall into depression and suicide attempts because of the pain/shame and abnormal feeling...and not being able to do what others usually can. I won't get into names here, but if one really wants to know I can share names by PM. (They are female-only disorders and I know men squirm at those sometimes.) I do encounter husbands/boyfriends who want to help their significant others, but treatments don't work all the time, and it's possible to never find a treatment to work. I did start a support group though; it's easier having someone who has the same things with the severity that you have them to talk to. But, I do have one extremely rare pain condition that ties in with the others that works in conjunction. It's so rare in fact... that I've had no luck finding another woman in the United States that has it, but only about 400 cases have been documented in medical history.
Iwillfear, this was more meant to be a "what if," more than anything, but I think we're having problems putting ourselves into potential situations here. I understand that some believe that situations can be reversed no matter what, but I find that usually people can (mentally) ask themselves "Well, what it if that did happen and there's nothing that could be done? How would I feel, and how would I react?"
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RE: When looks change... - 9/13/2008 5:05:19 PM
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dyluck
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I wasn't able to read everyone's post on this but I did want to put in my two cents.
Well we vowed for better for worse / sickness and in health right?
If you truly love someone, then it won't matter; however, if the obesity or issue is selfish or self inflicted, I would question that person's love for their spouse in such that not taking care of your body would be in direct conflict with the oneness with your partner. We can even look at this in context with our relationship as the bride to Christ.
This can be really extenuated through more then just physical changes, but mental changes and attitude changes too.
When you married, you married under a particular impression. If you were acting during that time, then who did your spouse marry?
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