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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/3/2008 12:16:14 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
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From: Kansas
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DaveW,
quote:
My home group leader saw him on several occasions praying in the early am in his bathrobe. Oh no, my bubble has been burst haha. Actually I'm relieved to hear your home group leaderss comment. I often thought to myself: "Lord if that's what it takes to operate at the level of authority he did, then I'm certainly not worthy." The 'suit' story was a comment that I'd heard early in my walk. So maybe Derek had a different 'routine' back then, 30 some years ago. Oh well, still a wonderful man of God IMO.
Solarflare,
quote:
I guess they could always just call on the Lord...........and they certainly can and do just leave when a person calls on the Lord.
If the above is true then it seems to negate the necessity of such ministry to people. The same principle would then have to also hold true for the sick and laying on hands for their healing. Why do so if they can do it themselves? I hope you can see the problem with your position. I feel that if they could deliver themselves, then they would.
quote:
To be 'successful' you must have humility, genuine love, discernment and an expectation from the Lord, not from saying "Go in Jesus Name" as though it were some magical combination of words. I tell you, people's hearts have as much to do with deliverance as the name of Jesus.
In agreeing with the above, we tried to address that very issue. Before ministring deliverance to individuals we always told them that "God won't deliver you from a friend."
An example being: You really want deliverance from a 'spirit of rage' that has cost you promotions/$ at work. but at the same time you really get a lot of 'control and power' from that spirit which causes friends/family to 'submit' to you in other environments.
quote:
I have read Derek Prince's book "They Shall Expel Demons"..and most others he has written. He is very frank about expelling demons from himself, when he was alone, so why there seems to be a problem with me agreeing with that, I don't know.....
I guess it goes back to 'levels of authority' again, for me. I believe demons can be starved out and crowded out in the lower levels of authority, whereas the highest level requires casting them out...and hence, the need for that ministry (or whatever term you're comfortable with).
Sledmt,
You point out a very excellent point as well as a perplexing dilemma. "They only come out calling on the Lord", TRUE. And yet, what about when we do, and "nothing ever happens", TRUE. We don't know why, so here we are. 
I believe I dealt personally with some demonic influences without crying out to the Lord. I simply 'crowded them out' by asking, or in other cases giving, forgiveness from an individual. In other cases I starved them out by refusing to submit to their influence because of 'self discipline' (or as we sometimes say, 'Faith it, till you make it'). With time, and their inability to manifest through me, they departed 'of their own accord' (???) for some other weaker and hapless individual. To this day I await for the 'casting out' of a 'deaf' spirit that made me 95% deaf in the right ear, in 1 hour on the way to work 10 years ago. Believe me, I've done all the things I know to do.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/3/2008 12:55:54 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4073
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
Before ministring deliverance to individuals we always told them that "God won't deliver you from a friend." A Derek Prince quote if ever there was one.quote:
I guess it goes back to 'levels of authority' again, for me. I believe demons can be starved out and crowded out in the lower levels of authority, whereas the highest level requires casting them out...and hence, the need for that ministry (or whatever term you're comfortable with). I do know that Derek said you can self-deliver but even others in ministry disagreed with him on that. It runs contrary to the NT concept of the congregants ministering to each other.
Is there any scriptural example of someone "starving" or "crowding" out a demon? I can only remember many cases of someone casting them out of someone else.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/3/2008 1:47:58 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Is there any scriptural example of someone "starving" or "crowding" out a demon? I can only remember many cases of someone casting them out of someone else.
No, not Scriputural, but a number of years ago I did hear of a Chruch that had a girl tied to a bed and was withholding food and water from her to "Weaken the flesh" so the demon would leave.
I went there, forcibly released the girl, my wife and I took the girl, prayed with, ministered to, delivered her from demons, and led her to the Lord.
And I never went back to that building again.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/3/2008 2:26:35 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
If the above is true then it seems to negate the necessity of such ministry to people. The same principle would then have to also hold true for the sick and laying on hands for their healing. Why do so if they can do it themselves? I hope you can see the problem with your position. I feel that if they could deliver themselves, then they would.
Actually, you are the one drawing the comparison. Which really makes no sense. Are you telling me that sick people cannot personally ask God to heal them? Where do you get that from? What are you basing your thoughts on? Certainly nothing I've written on this thread.
quote:
In agreeing with the above, we tried to address that very issue. Before ministring deliverance to individuals we always told them that "God won't deliver you from a friend."
That's not what I am saying....that is what YOU are saying........I am really referring to the heart of the person who wants to administer deliverance. NOT the person who needs it.
quote:
I guess it goes back to 'levels of authority' again, for me. I believe demons can be starved out and crowded out in the lower levels of authority, whereas the highest level requires casting them out...and hence, the need for that ministry
Yes, you just go ahead...that must be the place for you. Better not try to starve someone else or you might get the authorities after you. I will not be recommending that approach to anyone.
quote:
(or whatever term you're comfortable with).
Is that type of condescending remark really necessary?
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/3/2008 2:43:00 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
It runs contrary to the NT concept of the congregants ministering to each other.
Does that mean that we should never pray for anything again if we are alone? Gee, in that case, there is an awful lot of examples in the Bible that we are going to have to remove............
There is no precedent set in Scripture stating that the only time a person can address God is if there are others present and praying along. There is a time and a place for ministry to others and a time and a place for being alone when conversing with God about ANYTHING.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 7:34:08 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjamesquote:
Is there any scriptural example of someone "starving" or "crowding" out a demon? I can only remember many cases of someone casting them out of someone else. No, not Scriputural, but a number of years ago I did hear of a Chruch that had a girl tied to a bed and was withholding food and water from her to "Weaken the flesh" so the demon would leave.
I went there, forcibly released the girl, my wife and I took the girl, prayed with, ministered to, delivered her from demons, and led her to the Lord.
And I never went back to that building again. Amen. Sounds good to me.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 11:31:57 AM
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Him4all
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DaveW,
Argggh, I had a '(too)long' response to your 152 post and lost it last night when I tried to send. I just went to bed then. And today I don't really want to start from scratch. So let me briefly say this. I believe that we are a spirit, soul and ,body and spiritual warfare takes place on all three of those levels. It's my personal belief that there's a different level of authority for demons operating at each of those levels of our total being. The warfare takes place in the spirit with oppression, in the soul with obsession, and in or with the body and possession/demonization.
I don't deal with spirit oppression by 'calling on the name of Jesus' I do so by confessing an iniquity. I have all authority by virtue of the new birth to deal with it (I think). Lev 26:40, Neh 9:2, Psa 38:18.
I deal with soulish obsession by tearing down former "strongholds" of thinking which were built up by conforming my mind/soul to the thinking of the Father of lies. Here again I don't call on the name of Jesus, I merely take those thoughts captive and try to 'reprogram' my thinking to the mind of Christ via confessing God's spoken word the and the scriptures and occupying my mind with things of God. 2Cor 10:4-5, Mark 7:21-23 (cross ref with Luk 6:45), Rom 12:2, 6:17.
I deal with body possession/demonization with the help of 'body ministry' from those who are ministering deliverance. Those who have the authority to "cast out" a demon who has so infiltrated my 'total being' at the level of spirit, soul, body that I really don't have the 'willpower' to deal with it. This would be all the scriptures you say you are aware of.
Hope this helps.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 11:52:10 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
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From: Kansas
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Solarflare,
quote:
quote:
(or whatever term you're comfortable with).
Is that type of condescending remark really necessary?
It wasn't meant as condescending. I was truly trying to have reasonable dialog with you....I thought. I was trying to let you know that since you appear to be the only one having a problem with the term 'ministry' in association with 'deliverance ministry'...that I am comfortable with whatever term is acceptable to you for purpose of dialog. That's all I was trying to do. We've had a bumpy relationship here (and elswhere) and I was trying to smooth it over. So, who failed here?...me, you, both of us?
If I am in error with how I posted to you in #51, I would appreciate anyone else here confirming as a second witness that my attitude came off as 'condescending'.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 1:02:33 PM
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solarflare
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So, you would just like to continue in a ministry that is not described in the Bible....have a few success stories, admit a few into the psych wards of some hospital, starve out some demons (please don't tie people to the bed....that is just REALLY not Christlike), and insist you are knowledgeable and refuse to listen to someone who disagrees with the above?
Keep dabbling and experimenting. I'm just sorry for the folks that suffer because of your lack of knowledge. You said it, I'm just going by your own posts.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 1:12:29 PM
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Him4all
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RC,
I hope you too, didn't think I was talking about 'literally' starving someone to get spiritual release from a demon?
Although, I do advocate 'fasting' as a voluntary means to gain 'self discipline' over the flesh (for oneself)...and for gaining authority in the ministry of deliverance (of another).
I know that the rite of exorcism practices such things as starvation and tying one in a bed ect. Personally, I do not consider 'exorcism' as a biblical term equal to 'Christian deliverance'. I don't think that 'exorcism' is doing deliverance by the finger of God as Jesus said.
LUK 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
In exorcism sessions, demons aren't kicked out by God's spiritual authority/"finger of God" IMO. It's what Watchman Nee calls doing spiritual warfare with the latent power of the soul.
Exorcism had roots in the Jewish culture before Jesus, as is evidence by the 7 sons of Sceva who were just one group of 'Jewish exorcists'.
YLT ACT 19:13 And certain of the wandering exorcist Jews, took upon {them} to name over those having the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, 'We adjure you by Jesus, whom Paul doth preach;'
They had no 'spiritual authority/gifting' from God, to do their exorcisms. They had a bag of rites and rituals (tying up, starving and reading rites???) to try and make a demon leave. And leave it might, if it wasn't allowed to manifest its 'calling' in the life of the person to which they were attached. I think the sons of Sceva simply added the name/authority of Jesus to their 'spoken rites' in an attempt to "name over", or attach greater authority, to their spoken rites.
MAT 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub (Name/authority) cast out devils, by whom do your children (Sceva's children trying unsuccesuflly to use Jesus name/authority) cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
I personally believe that what I have done, in the past, is operated in these 'encounters' alternating between both soulish and spiritual strengths. I hope that doesn't offend anyone. For me it just makes me realize how far I still need to grow to be totally Sspirit led like Jesus. He never wrestled 'for hours' like we can do. He did it with a word from the Father.
MAT 8:16 That evening they brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 1:21:32 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
I know that the rite of exorcism practices such things as starvation and tying one in a bed ect. Personally, I do not consider 'exorcism' as a biblical term equal to 'Christian deliverance'. I don't think that 'exorcism' is doing deliverance by the finger of God as Jesus said.
DR
Might you please exound on this statement, I am a little confused about what you are refferencing?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 5:02:14 PM
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sledmt
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Him4All,
I didn't see your remark as condescending.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 5:04:10 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Him4All,
I didn't see your remark as condescending.
aaaaw
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 5:10:25 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 118
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Solarflare,
A question:
How are these things different:
Jesus casting demons out of people.
Deliverance ministry casting demons out of people.
I believe both Jesus and Deliverance ministries has the same focus, that demons are removed and people can move into a deeper relationship with the Lord. Allowing the person that was set free, experience a freedom that they were not before.
I personally didn't see that much of a difference between the two ways a demon was or is cast out.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 5:25:50 PM
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solarflare
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Let me be clear....and it seems I really do need permission as I have been misquoted numerous times:
1) I believe demons are real. I believe what the Word of God has to say about them. I believe that deliverance from same today is just as valid as it was when Jesus dealt with them
2) I believe that the number one reason we have so-called deliverance ministries today, is because of the lack of Christians who practice what God's Word teaches regarding same
3) I believe that often so-called deliverance ministries do more harm than good
4) I believe that some so-called deliverance ministers fancy themselves a cut above the rest of us...not all, but some of them, even though there is no evidence of that ministry in the Bible. The casting out of demons is a sign not a gift. In other words YOU DON'T NEED A SPECIAL GIFT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT...sorry, you are not special
5) I believe that there is a very very unbalanced approach to Scripture with regards to dealing with the demonic
6) I believe I have been very badly misquoted and my words twisted because of the above
7) LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN: CASTING OUT DEMONS IS DESCRIBED AS A SIGN IN THE BIBLE.....INCLUDING IN THE VERSES I WAS TOLD TO COMMENT ON. When I did comment, I was ignored or my words were
misquoted.
CASTING OUT DEMONS IS A SIGN. THAT IS HOW IT IS DESCRIBED. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN IGNORANCE REGARDING THE TACTICS OF SATAN, BUT THEY ARE.
This ignorance has given rise to the so-called deliverance ministry. This ministry is not described as such in the Bible. It is not a gift for the body of Christ to benefit from, the way teachers, prophets, discernment etc are described. And while we are at it, alot of the gifts have been just as hideously misused and misunderstood as the SIGN of casting out demons.
Get over it people. No matter how much you want to point to your great ministry of deliverance, it is not going to wash because God has not approved it. He has approved EVERY CHRISTIAN exercising the right to exercise demons.....not just a chosen few. Do you believe that speaking in tongues is for everyone? Well, if you believe that, then you must also believe that ANYONE, ANY CHRISTIAN, IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD, can cast out demons. I make no apologies. THAT is what the Word of God teaches.
CASTING OUT DEMONS IS A SIGN NOT A GIFT. IT IS A SIGN THAT SHALL FOLLOW THOSE WHO BELIEVE. I BELIEVE. GOD IN HIS MERCY HAS MADE SURE I DO.
CASTING OUT DEMONS IS A SIGN.....NOT NOT NOT A GIFT. YOU ARE NOT GIFTED. IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NORMAL PROCEDURE. YOU HAVE MADE IT INTO SOMETHING IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 7:22:28 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
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From: Kansas
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RC,
quote:
Might you please exound on this statement, I am a little confused about what you are refferencing?
My view used to be that exorcism is casting out evil spirits and it never occurred to me that it simply referred to a method.
I had that view until a couple years ago when I was exposed to teaching on the difference between ‘exorcism vs The Spirit’. This teacher basically led me to believe this way now:
Freeing people of demons can come from three sources, 1. God by His Spirit/authority, 2. Satan and his authority, 3. Man and his soulish power.
Man's power goes back to when he was given authority to rule and reign over all the earth and creeping things (serpents and scorpions). The latent power of the soul , which Watchman Nee and this teacher spoke of, is backed up scripturally...but not biblically. Let me explain, the book of Jasher is not in the bible, but it was referenced by the bible in the books of Joshua and 2Samuel.
A quote from the book of Jasher is the following: "Enosh lived ninety years and he begat Cainan; and Cainan grew up and he was forty years old, and he became wise and had knowledge and skill in all (human, earthly) wisdom, and he reigned over all the sons of men, and he led the sons of men to wisdom, and knowledge; for Cainan was a very wise man and had understanding in all wisdom, and with his wisdom he ruled over spirits and demons.” (Jasher 2:10-11)
If Matt 7 is correct in saying those people cast out demons, did mighty works, and gave supernatural prophetic words...but did not do so in the 'knowing' or 'name/authority of The Lord', then we are truly faced with a dilemma. Where did this authority/power come from to do those "mighty works"? Either they did it with the authority/power of Satan (which proves his kingdom is divided as Jesus intimated in Matt 12:26), or they did it with soulish power/ability/strength as good intentioned Christians calling upon the name of Jesus. But they had not 'the authority’, which only comes from the Lord permissively giving His name/authority to do such things. I think that's why I had some success and some failures. Sometimes I was 'prayed up' and 'fasted up' and heard his Spirit, and sometimes I just went with bad teaching like so many people 'spout on' about, never even having had a personal testimony concerning such things IMO.
Hope that all makes sense and helps you see where I'm cominmg from RC. You are certainly free to disagree.  I certainly don't expect you to hold my continued confession that "I don't know it all" against me.
Sldmt,
quote:
Him4All,
I didn't see your remark as condescending.
Thank you, How about Dave and RC now? I really would appreciate your honest imput since you've both been here.
Dr
< Message edited by Him4all -- 9/4/2008 7:29:18 PM >
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 8:27:25 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
Sldmt,
quote:
Him4All,
I didn't see your remark as condescending.
Thank you, How about Dave and RC now? I really would appreciate your honest imput since you've both been here.
Dr
< Message edited by Him4all -- 9/4/2008 7:29:18 PM >
What has happened here Him4 all? You do not even address my post, but instead make personal comments against me and try to get others to agree with you. Is this your way of dealing with things you don't understand or things you disagree with? It is not helpful.
I don't particularly care that you disagree with me Him4all, I do not find your views very Biblical. What I take real exception with, is you addressing other posters and asking them to weigh in on a comment I made to you. I have never done such a thing when I disagree with someone on these threads. People disagree with each other all the time.
Whereas I have confined responses to you if I was addressing you, you have tried to involve everyone else to weigh in on what I said to you.
Further, I stand by what I said. Your remarks to me have been condescending, and now you 'offer' a place for others to make personal remarks against me. You need to consider how very small you are being towards me. You cannot even relate one on one. I totally disagree with your opionions...which is all they are. There is nothing wrong with that. You, can disagree with me. The problem arises that you now believe that you have some kind of authority on this thread to get others to negate what I have had to say to you, and you alone. I don't think much of that. Truly, your actions tend to give credence to my observation that you are condescending towards me.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/4/2008 10:33:58 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
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From: Kansas
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Solarflare,
I chose to ask others for an unbiased imput concerning our apparent differences. If they agreed saying I was the one not seeing things clearly, I would have felt obliged to apologize for being 'condescending'. So far I've only heard from Sledmt...to whom you felt it necessary to respond...how shall I say this...condescendingly?
As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I simply don't agree with your beliefs. And I certainly am not going to be drawn to your level of dealing with it. I am interested in good fruit and further posts with you don't appear to be headed in that direction IMO.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 9:04:45 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5580
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
Freeing people of demons can come from three sources, 1. God by His Spirit/authority, 2. Satan and his authority, 3. Man and his soulish power.
I guess this Theology just goes over my head.
I believet the only way a person can be delivered of demons is for Believers to do it in the name of Jesus. I really do not understand how "Soulish power" has anything to do with it (irregardless of the OT Scriptures you posted).
I think the following example bears this out;
(Act 19:13) Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
(Act 19:14) And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
(Act 19:15) And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
(Act 19:16) And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
I agree that the casting out of demons is a sign that follows true Believers and there is plenty of New Testament guidelines in how to accomplish this. It is no "Power" of the Believer, but the Power of the Holy Spirit that accomplishes the task.
The gift from the Holy Spirit that is helpful is this is dicernment, but I agree there is no gift or special power (other than the Holy Spirit) in and of a person to cast demons
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 10:29:50 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
I chose to ask others for an unbiased imput concerning our apparent differences.
That is not what you did, Him4all. This, is what you asked:
quote:
Sldmt,
quote:
Him4All,
I didn't see your remark as condescending.
Thank you, How about Dave and RC now? I really would appreciate your honest imput since you've both been here.
You specifically asked if others found your remark to me condescending.
You don't need to ask the opinions of others with regards to my posts because everyone on this thread has already indicated what they think and or believe.
You never addressed the fact that Scripture describes casting out of demons as a sign that shall follow believers. You have deliberately, or otherwise, twisted my words and ignored what I have written, consistently from my first post on this thread.
Frankly, the more you are writing about what you believe regarding casting out of demons, the more I perceive why we do not at all agree even though I base my belief on what Scripture has to say. Why you put a human being's teaching over what Scripture teaches is something you will have to come to terms with.
I never wanted an apology from you.....it has become clear that you absolutley believe you are absolutely right.
quote:
And I certainly am not going to be drawn to your level of dealing with it. I am interested in good fruit and further posts with you don't appear to be headed in that direction IMO.
I suppose you don't find your remark of being 'drawn to my level' condescending either.  This is the type of thing you have said to me all along and yet you wonder why I object. And regarding fruit: actually, you would do well to discuss further with those who study God's Word and base their actions and beliefs on that, rather than extra-Biblical sources and teachers who fancy themselves possessors of superior knowledge. BTW, fruit comes from the Holy Spirit. I don't personally hand it out...so, not to worry...I haven't damaged any.
quote:
Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control
Now here is the specific verse from Scripture where these 9 fruits are being given to us by the Lord:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 11:22:27 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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RC,
quote:
I guess this Theology just goes over my head.
Isn't that always the case when we've jumped into something that's unfamiliar and deep.
Maybe it's just best to sit on the dock and dangle your feet for a while. I've certainly done a lot of that in my life.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 12:54:42 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Solarflare,
I'm sorry, didn't you just PM me last night saying..."I prefer to have no more exchanges with you." ??? And now this morning another post to....ME! I believe I will have to be the one to initiate the wisdom of your above statement, because your inconsistancies are simply to difficult for me to work with. Maybe another thread and another time...we'll see?
God be with you,
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 2:20:38 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4073
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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Solarflare, can you explain what you mean by "sign?"
A sign to whom? For what purpose?
Why do you consider it not a service to the body?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Deliverance question? - 9/5/2008 2:35:15 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Solarflare, can you explain what you mean by "sign?"
A sign to whom? For what purpose?
Why do you consider it not a service to the body?
Sign: Mark 16:17, my point being that casting out demons is not a gift of the Holy Spirit, but rather, a sign which accompanies those who believe.
Just like we read in Mark....no more, no less
It would seem from Scripture that signs accompany believers in the face of those who do not believe. It is a 'sign' that what the person is 'preaching', 'teaching', etc. is, from God.
I believe what the Word of God says and will take that as my example. I do not care who has what experience. God's Word comes first. In fact, I do not even care if the experience is 'good'. Experience is not the criteria for deciding if something is acceptable to God or not. And, if it is not acceptable to God, then I certainly do not want anything to do with it.
I have not said, nor am I saying, that believers should not pray for others.
I have only said that the so-called 'deliverance ministry' is not scriptural and it is not. Ministry TO people is Scriptural. I am not splitting hairs, there is a very real difference here.
You can also read my post #65.........Truly, I don't know why this is such a contenscious item on this thread. I was asked to comment on Mark 16....end of the chapter....I did...and still, I'm being asked over and over the same thing....you tell me....what does that verse say? How do you interpret it? Seems clear to me... You cannot base a ministry on a sign.
Do we have the ministry of speaking in tongues? Do we have the ministry of picking up serpents? Or drinking poison? It's just common sense. Now, discernment is needed when casting out demons, or at least extremely helpful.....but that is not a ministry in and of itself either. So why has casting out demons been made into a ministry?
< Message edited by solarflare -- 9/5/2008 2:46:49 PM >
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