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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:05:58 AM
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Thessa
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What really bugs me about this speech of Obamas is that he did it on the Anniversary date of MLKs 'I have a dream' speech and mentioned McCain 19 times and Bush 8 times.
Wasnt this supposed to be somewhat of a historical speech? A good look on where the Democrats are taking America? I didnt get that from it at all. I got a speech carefully scripted to look maybe a small fraction different than all the rest of them.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:17:10 AM
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Lizahana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
What really bugs me about this speech of Obamas is that he did it on the Anniversary date of MLKs 'I have a dream' speech and mentioned McCain 19 times and Bush 8 times.
Wasnt this supposed to be somewhat of a historical speech? A good look on where the Democrats are taking America? I didnt get that from it at all. I got a speech carefully scripted to look maybe a small fraction different than all the rest of them.
I'm guessing you're in the minority then. Even the skeptics are admitting that it was, to say the least, great.
But, hey, don't be down- maybe Obama will make a horrible mistake - then you can put on a happy face 
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:24:26 AM
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ManimalX
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Not this skeptic. I think Rufas' post is closest to a fair assessment, but I still wouldn't use the word 'great'. It was... meh. It was pretty much just a standard political speech, nothing groundbreaking to be sure. Someone said Obama "smashed" it out of the park. That would be true if the park he smashed it out of was about 50 feet long.
Tee-ball, anyone?
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:37:20 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Not this skeptic. I think Rufas' post is closest to a fair assessment, but I still wouldn't use the word 'great'. It was... meh. It was pretty much just a standard political speech, nothing groundbreaking to be sure. Someone said Obama "smashed" it out of the park. That would be true if the park he smashed it out of was about 50 feet long.
Tee-ball, anyone?
SO true!!! LOL!
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:40:17 AM
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jfwink
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After reading the past couple of pages of this thread, a couple of things stuck out to me.
One poster seemed to indicate that Obama was boring. Oh Really? He's the most dynamic speaker going today. He gives speeches that rival, and likely best Clinton and Reagan, in terms of motivational factor, delivery, etc. His oratory is on another level than most politicians today. That's why he spoke in '04 at the Dem convention. That's partly why he's the Dem nominee for President today.
On the other hand, one poster indicated that Obama would rip McCain to shreds in a debate. Huh? Is that why Obama (who said he would debate "any time, anywhere") has avoided town hall meetings with McCain like they were the plague? Obama is fantastic with a telepromter, but suddenly human again in debate format. If you think McCain will be ripped to shreds in coming debates, you're undoubtedly underestimating McCain.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 1:55:02 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
After reading the past couple of pages of this thread, a couple of things stuck out to me.
One poster seemed to indicate that Obama was boring. Oh Really? He's the most dynamic speaker going today. He gives speeches that rival, and likely best Clinton and Reagan, in terms of motivational factor, delivery, etc. His oratory is on another level than most politicians today. That's why he spoke in '04 at the Dem convention. That's partly why he's the Dem nominee for President today.
On the other hand, one poster indicated that Obama would rip McCain to shreds in a debate. Huh? Is that why Obama (who said he would debate "any time, anywhere") has avoided town hall meetings with McCain like they were the plague? Obama is fantastic with a telepromter, but suddenly human again in debate format. If you think McCain will be ripped to shreds in coming debates, you're undoubtedly underestimating McCain.
Did you watch the interview/debate they did with Warren? Did you see the difference in how Obama acted during that and how he acts when he has scripted speeches? I think that tells a person what they need to know about how the debates are going to go.
Now saying that i will give Obama one heads up and say that hes a great person to deliver a speech - but a debate is totally different. He will have to be thinking for himself on his toes and i dont think it will be easy for him at all. McCain is far from Hillary Clinton. lol Obama will be debating an actual person that already thinks on their toes and dosent play up the audience to tell them only what they want to hear. That is out of Obamas ground.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 2:02:15 AM
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henny
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Actually, I think people are just disappointed that there were not as many rhetorical flourishes or as much fire in the speech.
But I think we need to keep in mind what Obama had to do.
The fire and the rhetoric is fine for the first 3 days of the convention, but in this case Obama actually had to move beyond merely appealing to the base and face the much more boring and arduous task of laying out his platform in greater detail.
Looking over the speech, I think he handled it brilliantly.
He basically hit every major criticism the Republicans have been hurling at him, all while attacking McCain, as well as laying out in a more detailed manner what he defines as "Change."
In fact, I can't really think of an issue that he didn't touch on off hand (maybe the deficit, but I can't remember) -so it's kind of a wonder he was able to fit it all in.
Anyways, personally, I think this speech marks the point that Obama came of age as a politician, and I have far more respect for his intellect as a politician after hearing it (and I always gave the Clintons more credit when it came to this, more so than Obama, but tonight changed that). It wasn't pretty words or fiery rhetoric, but rather just a brilliant political mind, not only laying out it's plan for the future, but more importantly demonstrating that it is aware of all of the political pitfalls it's up against and skillfully navigating them.
I'm sure most people will disagree with me on this, but I think the speech showed Obama to be not the "hero" or "messiah" or "celebrity" that everyone thought they would get when tuning in, but rather just an incredibly shrewd and able commander in chief.
Sure "shrewd and able commander in chief" is a much more boring role than rockstar political messiah, and it certainly makes for less exciting speeches, but it's nevertheless a transition he had to make if he wants to win the presidency.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 2:09:20 AM
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henny
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
On the other hand, one poster indicated that Obama would rip McCain to shreds in a debate. Huh? Is that why Obama (who said he would debate "any time, anywhere") has avoided town hall meetings with McCain like they were the plague?
Obama avoided the debates with McCain because he's been ahead in the polls for the majority of the summer (or at least up until last week, although most polls still have him ahead slightly).
It's basically a political given that the guy who is ahead will not want to debate (as he has everything to lose) and the guy who is behind will want to debate (as he has everything to gain), so I have no doubt McCain would have turned down the opportunities had he been ahead.
Of course, there's a chance this could backfire on Obama, as I think most Democrats thought he would be much farther ahead at the end of the summer than he is right now, so maybe his turning down the chance will be something he regrets in the end. We'll have to wait and see.
I agree, though, that Obama isn't as great a speaker when he's unscripted. He drops too many "ums" and stutters (I wish his people would get on him about the "ums." It's speech making 101 that silence is always better than an "um"). He held his own in the Hilary debates, though, and while they were a much friendly audience, I do think Hilary's a much better debater than McCain.
I don't think McCain is a great speaker in more formal debates and settings. He always comes off as "ungenuine" to me when he gives formal speeches (he's bad at teleprompters), and he has definite "Nixon" potential -although he was much better in the Warren discussions, so maybe he's working on it and we'll see if he can carry that over.
< Message edited by henny -- 8/29/2008 2:16:07 AM >
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 2:28:15 AM
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jfwink
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You're right henny, McCain isn't great at formal debates, but he does excel at town hall style debates.
Obama still said any time, any where. I guess that's no different than his new partner who, months ago, said Obama wasn't ready to lead and that he would reject a shot at Vice President. :)
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 4:55:00 AM
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buckifn
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I didn't see the speech...but am curious..did Obama mention murdering babies and what he plans to do to put an end to that?
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 8:25:51 AM
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buckifn
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thessa
one of the reasons I don't listen to him is because of the abortion issue. Regardless of how many other good points he may make it all goes out the window if he doesn't value sanctity of life. I think there are a lot of people Christian and nonchristian as well who just can't turn a blind eye to that subject.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 8:32:11 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
thessa
one of the reasons I don't listen to him is because of the abortion issue. Regardless of how many other good points he may make it all goes out the window if he doesn't value sanctity of life. I think there are a lot of people Christian and nonchristian as well who just can't turn a blind eye to that subject.
I agree with you. I didnt watch it either. I dont like him. Im voting for McCain.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 8:42:34 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
I'm sure most people will disagree with me on this, but I think the speech showed Obama to be not the "hero" or "messiah" or "celebrity" that everyone thought they would get when tuning in, but rather just an incredibly shrewd and able commander in chief. He's GOT to be something more than what he (and any other president) can be if he believes he will have a line item veto.
Did he forget that there's a small thing in the government called a Congress that has a rather large say in the budget? Or is he indeed that shrewd that he will be able to bypass that branch of government. 
Oh, that's right. He hasn't spent enough time in the halls of congress to know how it does work...
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 8:55:46 AM
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saved9201
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Obama avoided the debates with McCain because he's been ahead in the polls for the majority of the summer (or at least up until last week, although most polls still have him ahead slightly).
It's basically a political given that the guy who is ahead will not want to debate (as he has everything to lose) and the guy who is behind will want to debate (as he has everything to gain), so I have no doubt McCain would have turned down the opportunities had he been ahead.
In addition, the more McCain can keep Obama busy in these numerous town hall debates (I think McCain originally requested one a week?), the less the American people can witness scenes like they witnessed at Mile High Stadium. You think McCain could attract 84,000 people by himself?
I believe that scenes like that truly bothers McCain and his followers. McCain may be the superior candidate but he can't underestimate this guy. People are getting caught up in this thing, and McCain can continue to make jokes about his celebrity status but he'd better take this guy seriously.
- Julius
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 9:34:56 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
People are getting caught up in this thing, and McCain can continue to make jokes about his celebrity status but he'd better take this guy seriously.
I think he (and more importantly his staff) is. Karl Rove said as much the other night when discussing the then upcoming speech. The jokes are intended to make the voters not take Obama seriously.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 9:37:08 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
I didn't see the speech...but am curious..did Obama mention murdering babies and what he plans to do to put an end to that?
Two lines in the speech concerning abortion:
1. We might not agree on it
2. We can agree on the need to reduce unwanted pregnancies.
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RE: Democratic National Convention Thread - 8/29/2008 9:38:51 AM
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tafkam
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The setting and the crowd were impressive, the speech was not. True, Obama knocked it out of the park, but only because he had had a lot of practice...it was virtually the same Obama speech we've been hearing for months, with one or two new flourishes thrown in to jazz it up a little.
Tracking polls all week have indicated little or no movement for the Obama camp, nothing resembling a "bounce"; I'm curious to see what the next day or so brings.....
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Tafkam
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