Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (Full Version)

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henny -> Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/25/2008 8:44:12 PM)

This grew out of the "Biblically Defend Obama: Abortion" thread.

I'd be interested in hearing how Christian supporters of McCain Biblically justify voting for McCain when it comes to the issue of abortion, especially given that McCain does support abortion in cases of rape, incest, and to protect the life of the mother. He has also supported stem cell research funding in the past.

If you believe that life ALWAYS begins at conception, and that any destruction of this life at any point after conception is murder, then you would have to concede that McCain also supports the murder of innocents, even if his support is more limited than your typical democrat.

I know what you will say; that McCain supports the wider anti-abortion movement in other ways, and thus voting for him is justifiable as a "lesser of two evils." But I think what people forget is that a vote for "the lesser of two evils" is still a positive vote for evil -no matter how you try to qualify this. God does not parse murder. There are not "lesser murders" when it comes to the slaughter of innocent babies. An innocent child who is murdered is no less innocent and no less murdered depending on whether or not his mother was raped or got pregnant by her own actions.

So if we are to judge candidates based strictly on Biblical morality, how can a Christian justify voting for someone who supports the murder of babies in any degree?



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/25/2008 9:47:01 PM)

There is no biblical defense for abortion... McCain support for some abortions is against God's word without a doubt...



henny -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/25/2008 10:28:27 PM)

I never agree with anything you say, sovereignishe, but I've always admired your consistency on this issue.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/26/2008 12:45:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: henny

I never agree with anything you say, sovereignishe, but I've always admired your consistency on this issue.



You don't agree that Jesus is the Son of God?



huskarine -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/26/2008 7:19:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: henny

I never agree with anything you say, sovereignishe, but I've always admired your consistency on this issue.



You don't agree that Jesus is the Son of God?



uhhh...yeah, i would not aim to make a mockery about someone's faith...i think he was just using the word "never" in vain...please let it go, John...


also, i agree with you John. Abortion in any case is wrong, but elections is where i have to play compromise (end justifying the means) every 2 years!!! i hate doing this, but it is our failed government (and by that, i mean in comparison to the unfailing government of God). so i will vote for him anyway.

his stance on abortion is 99% better than Obama's.



SwedishCovenant -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/26/2008 9:12:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: huskarine

his stance on abortion is 99% better than Obama's.



Is it? Is it really? Or has he just found a way to say what the religious right wants to hear?

Look closely at his 'exceptions' - the usual 'threat to the mother's life, or in cases of incest and/or rape' - exceptions which most folks, even right-to-life supporters, can live with, which is McCain's hoped-for result.

But look at that exception - "in cases of rape". Now, most of us have a perception of rape - woman (or man, for that matter) assaulted in the elevator, dragged into the back of the van, beaten unconscious, violated; or maybe drugged at a frat party. We visualize the traumatized, bruised, disheveled victim arriving in the ER, the rape-test kit, the police involvement, and so forth.

In MCCain's exception, THERE IS NO PROOF OF RAPE REQUIRED, nor is there a time limit on when rape can be claimed - even months after the fact.

The fact is that under MccAin's exception, ANY pregnant woman can claim 'rape', evidence of it or not - and thus be eligible for an abortion of choice.

McCAin's stated position is a fig-leaf for him being unable to face the political danger of proposing REAL right-to-life legislation, ie, he is politically willing to accept the status quo.



huskarine -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/26/2008 9:26:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

quote:

ORIGINAL: huskarine

his stance on abortion is 99% better than Obama's.



Is it? Is it really? Or has he just found a way to say what the religious right wants to hear?

Look closely at his 'exceptions' - the usual 'threat to the mother's life, or in cases of incest and/or rape' - exceptions which most folks, even right-to-life supporters, can live with, which is McCain's hoped-for result.

But look at that exception - "in cases of rape". Now, most of us have a perception of rape - woman (or man, for that matter) assaulted in the elevator, dragged into the back of the van, beaten unconscious, violated; or maybe drugged at a frat party. We visualize the traumatized, bruised, disheveled victim arriving in the ER, the rape-test kit, the police involvement, and so forth.

In MCCain's exception, THERE IS NO PROOF OF RAPE REQUIRED, nor is there a time limit on when rape can be claimed - even months after the fact.

The fact is that under MccAin's exception, ANY pregnant woman can claim 'rape', evidence of it or not - and thus be eligible for an abortion of choice.

McCAin's stated position is a fig-leaf for him being unable to face the political danger of proposing REAL right-to-life legislation, ie, he is politically willing to accept the status quo.


does it matter the means????? I am talking about the principle of the matter. and i have said before that i picking the lesser of two evils, and if memory serves me right, you agreed with me in retrospect...



ManimalX -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (8/26/2008 11:02:12 AM)

It is highly unlikely that abortion will be abolished completely in one shining moment. Rather it will be abolished in stages. Christians need to continue work at the heart level to love mothers, convince people of the nobility of motherhood and the sacred nature of life, and making adoption free and easy.

On a different level, anti-abortion laws need to be passed and current abortion laws need to be done away with. If the first step in that is legalizing abortion except in specific cases, then that is an incredible step. Even if it HALVES the rate of abortion in the US, that is still hundreds of thousands of precious little babies saved every year.

John McCain is not the ideal pro-life cadidate, but a big factor he has going for him is that he will appoint just judges whose influence will last for decades. Another big factor he has going for him is that he is not Barack Obama, Mr. Planned Parenthood himself, who will do all he can to make sure that we have all-murder-all-the-time for a long time to come.

John McCain was wrong on the issue of stem-cell research, and is wrong to include a rape/incest clause. But he is the best chance we have to stand in the way of the murderous Democratic party.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Biblically Defend McCain: Abortion (9/2/2008 3:03:42 PM)

I'm combining some threads that are alike. Please continue this discussion HERE.


Thanks!

Tricia
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