... until death do us part. (Full Version)

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DreadPirateRandy -> ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 2:52:55 PM)

This is mainly directed toward the married females on this community, but its open to anyone who any input, comments, advice, etc.

Luke 20:34-36
34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.

Evidently, marriage is excluded from heaven. "Forever" is supposedly the concept of eternity. Likewise, marriage is supposed to be the joint between two flesh united into one, and "since they are no longer two but one, let no one separate them, for God has joined them together".

Where does that leave the purpose of marriage, then?

If it's not eternal, then it must be temporal. If that is the case, then the person you marry is not your spouse forever, it's just "for a while". If it's only temporal, then what does uniting into one flesh serve?

This has led me to believe that what I once believed marriage to be, it is indeed, not. Thus, it seems almost pointless to me. I'm not comfortable with having a spouse for a little while, then later be separated from her because the concept of eternity prohibits it.

So, given that there won't be marriage-like "closeness" between your now-spouse in heaven, how do you handle that? Am I crazy for being hurt by what I thought was forever, but isn't?



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 4:19:48 PM)

We're married for years and years and years - some people for most of their lives. How is this not significant?

There are many, many (if not ALL) things on earth that won't carry meaning in heaven. Does that make our time on earth totally insignificant? We might as well forget going to school, having friends, enjoying nature, etc. if it's only done on earth.

For only this life is good enough for me. I suspect that we won't be grieving the "loss" of our marriage in heaven.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 4:39:54 PM)

A younger generation is doubtful to get "most of their lives", maybe a few years, if that, given the time we're living in. No, that is not sufficient for me. Maybe I'm selfish. Who knows.

On the other hand, I'd rather be selfish and get to share eternity with loved ones than not.



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 6:29:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy

A younger generation is doubtful to get "most of their lives", maybe a few years, if that, given the time we're living in. No, that is not sufficient for me. Maybe I'm selfish. Who knows.


I suppose that depends on your eschatology. But I don't think God would want us to refuse marriage because we think the end is near.

I guess my thought is that God wants us to love others. The marital relationship is a picture of Christ and His Church, which means it's not only loving another person, it's also a witness to the world. Would we be disobeying Him by refusing to marry because we think it's not worth the short time we have in this life?



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 8:09:31 PM)

I'm not referring to refusal of marriage. I want, and I am getting married.

I know marriage serves a purpose here. It's a spiritual uniting of two flesh into one, something that cannot be separated. What I am concerned of, however, is not knowing or getting to spend time with your spouse in heaven, if there is no marriage. I was curious of the thoughts that married women may have regarding that, or if they know something I don't, I'd be glad to stand corrected.

If getting married here signifies nothing in the afterlife, then why is there so much emphasizing on getting married and spending "forever" together?

The Bible says whomever believes in the Son will NOT perish but have eternal life. An eternal life is endless and infinite, it's forever. Why would there be separation of spouses in paradise? It doesn't make sense to me. Especially knowing God has given you that person to spend the rest of your life with.



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 8:48:38 PM)

I think that most of your question is unanswerable. We don't know exactly what our relationship will be with others (including our spouses, other than that there is no marriage in heaven). I think that your question is one of those "we'll know when we get there" things.

As for the emphasis on being together "forever," I think that's a non-Christian, romantic notion. It'd be interesting to find out how many Christians do emphasize this, or if it's only because the popular love songs (non-Christian ones) talk about it.

When I married my husband, I had no illusions that we'd be married "forever."

If I were to speculate, I'd guess that in heaven, we'll have sweet, intimate fellowship with all believers, not just with our former spouse. Imagine having the same kind of deep love for everyone as you have for your spouse (without the erotic aspect, of course). Love perfected among the brethren. Wow.

Of course, like I said, that is totally speculation.



monamie -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 8:54:09 PM)

I have pondered before (but absolutely no way to prove or disprove this, so I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out) if, since hubby and I are one flesh now, if we will be "one person" in heaven instead of two separate people. But then you get into the sticky situation of widows remarrying, and soforth and it gets complicated. Like I said, it was just something that crossed my mind once.

I have no doubt that if hubby and I aren't "married" in heaven, what we do have will far exceed anything we can imagine here.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 11:10:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

As for the emphasis on being together "forever," I think that's a non-Christian, romantic notion.


Jesus said anyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. In my mind, that translates to forever. Why wouldn't our relationships in heaven also be the same?

I cannot believe God would separate the closeness you had with your spouse on earth in heaven. Marriage or not, I don't want to think that He would do that.

quote:

When I married my husband, I had no illusions that we'd be married "forever."


But did you assume you would be together forever? Regardless of being married to each other, to separate the closeness you have with your spouse in this perfect Kingdom doesn't seem perfect to me at all.



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/25/2008 11:32:43 PM)

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. [;)]

I don't see it as God separating the closeness we had with our spouse; I see it as God making ALL our relationships that close.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/26/2008 4:05:30 AM)

Well, I discovered THIS article which I found to be very interesting.

It doesn't make sense to me why God created marriage in the beginning, in a perfect environment, called it "good", and then would later abolish it. What about the new heaven and new earth? If the new earth is anything like the beginning of time with Adam and Eve, then why would marriage be abolished?



car2ner -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/26/2008 9:07:34 AM)

first the comment about a generation wondering if they have much time left to live. If it means anything, my generation thought the same thing. And now my kids are adults. Take that for what it is worth.

As far as marriage not continuing through eternity, I would not give up what I have now in because I might missing m'love in heaven. God has wonderful things in store for us there. So we enjoy the blessings He is giving us now in our marriage and will enjoy whatever He has instore for us later. And I would not be surprised that m'love and I get to do alot of things together.



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/28/2008 12:01:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy

Well, I discovered THIS article which I found to be very interesting.

It doesn't make sense to me why God created marriage in the beginning, in a perfect environment, called it "good", and then would later abolish it. What about the new heaven and new earth? If the new earth is anything like the beginning of time with Adam and Eve, then why would marriage be abolished?

It seems to me that when God discontinues one thing, it's ALWAYS to give us something better. It's okay to not be able to imagine something better. I think we all have that problem. I would tend to think that, rather than abolished, marriage's purpose is fulfilled in Heaven and we'll be in an even BETTER relationship. Much the same way Jesus didn't abolish the Law but He is infinitely better.



Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/28/2008 2:31:40 PM)

I can think of several reasons "why"... Marriage was created in the beginning as something beautiful for man and woman. It is a gift from G-d. Even if it will be abolished to something greater that's still His business. Sex and procreation was created to be within the confines of marriage. We have a sex drive. We have a natural desire to be emotionally connected to another human being on a high level. That is who we are and who we were created to be.

And since marriage reflects our relationship with Christ, it can teach us and give us a glimpse of what marriage with Christ will be like in Heaven.

I personally think from a woman's standpoint that if you are questioning marriage on earth that you shouldn't get married. If I knew my husband to be asked why I would certainly feel hurt and confused as to why he would marry me then. Women are by nature very emotional. I don't know many women who would analyze this situation unless they are trying to protect themselves from some potential hurt.

And simply put, like another poster said, all things good are a gift from G-d. If He blesses you with a gift take it! If he has a beautiful man or woman for you to enjoy your life with here on earth are you going to say, "No thanks L-rd. I'd rather not since it's not eternal?"



losgan -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/28/2008 4:55:52 PM)

That's one of those things I just choose to trust God on. If I am married here on earth, then it serves His purposes somehow.

If in heaven it serves His purpose that there are no marriages - well, as much as that thought pains me now - I know His reasons are perfect, and that it just isn't something I understand right now.



CheshireMuse -> RE: ... until death do us part. (8/29/2008 3:15:04 PM)

I can understand your confusion....

The Bible says that in heaven there will be no "marrying and giving in marriage"..... but, nowhere does it say that we will not know those with whom we have shared love and laughter on earth.

My personal view is that, in heaven, we will know who people were to us on earth - love them, spend time with them, etc.... but, the relationship will be so much more beautiful....

I've always believed that intimacy with your beloved is like getting a tiny glimpse of the perfected love we will share in heaven. A love that we can't know on earth (in it's entirety) because we are hobbled by the flesh.

JMO



MC4JC -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/8/2008 10:02:20 PM)

I struggle with that part. God gave me a wonderful man for my husband - far better then I could ever dream. And to not let us continue that in heaven kinda makes me a little sad.

So I resolved it by asking God to at least put our mansions besides each other. I know he'll have something wonderful in heaven for us all :)



42servehymn -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/11/2008 7:59:26 AM)

Even if it was one day of marriage it would be worth it. I have been fortunate to have enjoyed almost 25 years though and I consider myself very fortunate. I would not consider denying myself one of life's greater pleasures just so I wouldn't have to contend with loss in Heaven.



Harvie -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/12/2008 8:02:23 AM)

Your thread title says "Until death do us part."

Doesn't scripture say clearly that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life?

My plans don't include death ... they include "everlasting life."

[:)]



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/12/2008 10:27:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harvie

Your thread title says "Until death do us part."

Doesn't scripture say clearly that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life?

My plans don't include death ... they include "everlasting life."

[:)]


How do you reconcile that with Jesus saying that in heaven there is no marriage?



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/12/2008 5:35:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

How do you reconcile that with Jesus saying that in heaven there is no marriage?


Where did Jesus blatantly say it as such?

The contents of that specific verse refers to that of angels having no need for marriages. They are immortal and incorruptible. Just because they have no need for marriage, that shouldn't rule out the possibility that some form of marriage could later exist on the new earth.



ta_mosquito -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/12/2008 6:08:25 PM)

quote:

Where did Jesus blatantly say it as such?

You have it in your OP.

quote:

The contents of that specific verse refers to that of angels having no need for marriages. They are immortal and incorruptible. Just because they have no need for marriage, that shouldn't rule out the possibility that some form of marriage could later exist on the new earth.

In context, it's the religious leaders asking Jesus whose wife a certain multiple widow would be. He said that they're mistaken; there's no marriage in heaven.

If that is not what He meant, then you answer: whose wife will be that widow? [8D]



solo_soprano22 -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/12/2008 6:19:01 PM)

How about Matt. 22: 23-30?

That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. "Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. Finally, the woman died. Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven..."

Anyway, I think in Heaven we won't be thinking the same way we think about it now. We might not even give marriage a second thought. :) I'm under the impression that we, in the here and now, can't begin to fathom how we'll be different in our thinking and attitudes when we're in Heaven.

ETA: I do understand what you're saying about marriage existing at some point there, Randy.



sudden -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/13/2008 9:29:05 AM)

Dear Pirate:

I never once imagined that marraige was forever. I guess I've been read the scriptures since I was a child.

He has said that he is preparing a place for us. It is beyond our imagining the things the Lord has planned for us. Trust Him. He loves you more than a spouse ever could and will not hurt you.

Sudden



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: ... until death do us part. (9/16/2008 12:11:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
I suppose that depends on your eschatology.

I agree. Some of the questions you might ask yourself are:

  1. The Bible says that there is no marriage or giving in marriage in heaven.
  2. The Bible does say that those who die before the second coming will be with the L-rd.
  3. The Bible says that the L-rd's domain is in the heavens.
  4. The Bible mentions that when Messiah comes, we will be taken up, but only speculation (or your eschatology) tells for how long, because the Bible is very unclear.
  5. The Bible does tell about a life on earth after #4 for both redeemed and some who are not redeemed.
  6. The Bible doesn't say that we will be in heaven for eternity.
  7. The Bible does tell about a new heaven and a new earth.


My husband and I are two persons who fit what Monamie brought up: both of us were widowed before we married one another. Hey, if he and his first wife and I and my first husband all live together, fine with me!



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