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ljmac -> Biden (8/24/2008 9:18:07 PM)

Joe Biden is something to listen to if you're amuzed by people who never run out of things to say. He can talk and talk and talk. He's a used car salesman and you better pay attention because anything can come out of his mouth. Among the more amusing things he's said are:

- Barak Obama is a "clean" black man. (As opposed to what is what I want to know.)

- "You can't go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent." He said that to an Indian.

- When asked if he had any chance winning the Democratic primary in South Carolina, he bragged that "My state was a slave state."

- During one of his many presidential campaigns he got caught stealing a whole speech from British politician Neil Kinnock.

- During the same campaign he said that he was in the top half of his law school, had three undergrad degrees and went to school on a full scholarhsip. In fact, he finished near the bottom, had one-half scholarship, and got one degree. All this was preceded by telling the journalist that he had a higher IQ than he did.



inthysite -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 9:29:11 PM)

"Ladies and gentlemen, my wife Jill, who you'll meet soon, is drop dead gorgeous," Biden said in Springfield, Ill., Saturday in his first speech as Barack Obama's running mate. "She also has her doctorate degree, which is a problem.



inthysite -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 9:34:02 PM)

When introducing his running mate, Obama said, "So let me introduce to you the next president - the next vice president of the US of America, Joe Biden."

And then when it was Biden's turn to speak, the Delaware senator called the presumptive Democratic nominee "Barack America" instead of Barack Obama.

"My friends, I don't have to tell you, this election year the choice is clear. One man stands ready to deliver change we desperately need. A man I’m proud to call my friend. A man who will be the next president of the United States, Barack America,” Biden said, per ABC News' Sunlen Miller.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 9:36:03 PM)

At least Senator Biden will be fun.



huangshan -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 9:59:03 PM)

"Barack America" is awesome and should be a song, a documentary with awesome camera angles, and maybe a bumper sticker. Definitely a shirt.



tafkam -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 10:00:23 PM)

Well, if we couldn't have Hillary, Joe's the next best thing.....he's a regular font of unintentional laughs.

Althought, part of me will be sad to see the Hildabeast fade into the woodwork for the next four years....



iluvatar -> RE: Biden (8/24/2008 10:57:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if we couldn't have Hillary, Joe's the next best thing.....he's a regular font of unintentional laughs.


I suppose it's the Democratic party's turn to have someone in the executive branch who says stupid things.

-Dan.



henny -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 12:43:49 AM)

As to Biden, I think he was the best possible choice Obama could have made -or at least from the options he was floating (I can think of people I might have liked better that he never seemed to consider). He has his flaws (mainly his mouth), but I think his positives offset that:

1. He has foreign policy experience
2. He's willing to attack, as he's already demonstrated, and which Obama desperately needs right now (although, playing attack dog is often the job of the VP anyway)
3. Kaine and Bayh (the other two supposed front runners) are not well known enough. The McCain camp was going to criticize him either way, and I'm sure they had basic criticisms of the VP drawn up long before he was announced (just as I'm sure the Obama camp has their criticisms prepared for next Friday's announcement). Had he chosen either Bayh or Kaine, I think McCain would have continued to hammer home the "lack of foreign policy experience" and "too inexperienced/young to lead" arguments. So Obama had to choose between the "lack of experience" criticisms if he picked either of these two, on the one hand, and on the other, the inevitable criticism that Biden is not "new enough" and thus undercuts Obama's message of change and that Obama somehow admits a lack of experience in foreign policy by picking him. These were his only two options, and I think he made the right choice, as I think the "lack of foreign experience" criticism is ultimately the most damaging (especially given that McCain emphasizes his POW status and foreign policy experience as his biggest selling point), so picking someone like Biden was the best way to dampen these attacks (and I assure you, as much as the McCain camp pretended shock and derision over Biden as VP, of all the options he was EXACTLY who they didn't want Obama to pick).

And Hilary would have NEVER worked. If he would have picked her, I don't think he would have had a prayer, even if it would have solidified some of her old supporters. She's too polarizing. I know a lot of the Hilary hate has dissipated in recent months just because Obama seems to have become the new focal point of hatred for the right wing, but had he chosen Hilary they would have rediscovered their old hatred of her pretty quickly. Plus she would do nothing to alleviate the two seperate criticisms I mentioned earlier. She doesn't have a whole lot of foreign policy experience (so she wouldn't help much there), and she likewise is a career politician who has been around a long time, so had Obama chosen her he would have opened the door for McCain to hammer him on both of those fronts.



ljmac -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 12:57:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if we couldn't have Hillary, Joe's the next best thing.....he's a regular font of unintentional laughs.


I suppose it's the Democratic party's turn to have someone in the executive branch who says stupid things.

-Dan.


I like the racially insensitive things myself. Obama and Biden balance each other perfectly. The white guy can brag about his state once being a slave state and the half-black guy can say a "typical white person" is ignorantly fearful of black people.



inthysite -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 7:40:21 AM)

I think it's funny that the Democrats are saying that Biden helps their ticket.

This is a man who only got about 9000 votes in the primaries. He couldn't even get any votes for himself, how is he supposed to help get votes for NObama?

Then there is the hilarious line that he isn't a Washington insider because "he rode the train to Wilmington for 35 years so he didn't live in Washington".[:D][:D][:D]

There is so much spin going on by the Democrats in Denver right now that it's caused at least 4 tornadoes.



inthysite -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 7:53:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: henny

1. He has foreign policy experience

Yes he does have good record of foreign policy experience, I'll give you that. However he was in full support of the Iraq War which NObama made a major talking point in his campaign, the fact that he voted against the war when it wasn't popular. He continually banged that drum and criticized McCain's support of the war. I guess he can't do that anymore.

quote:


2. He's willing to attack, as he's already demonstrated, and which Obama desperately needs right now (although, playing attack dog is often the job of the VP anyway)

I find it strange that all of a sudden everyone is saying how good of an attack dog Biden will be, that NObama needs an attack dog. NObama is supposed to be about change, not the same old politics any more, he is s different politician. But he is showing himself to be the same old liberal as all the rest.

Plus I thought everyone was saying how good NObama was at attacking McCain. Now all of a sudden he needs an attack dog? Sounds like more spin to try and put a positive light on Biden.

quote:


3.... So Obama had to choose between the "lack of experience" criticisms if he picked either of these two, on the one hand, and on the other, the inevitable criticism that Biden is not "new enough" and thus undercuts Obama's message of change and that Obama somehow admits a lack of experience in foreign policy by picking him. These were his only two options, and I think he made the right choice,

Again I find it strange that everyone was saying that McCain was running an ineffective campaign but apparently it was/is pretty effective. He managed to force the hand of NObama in his decision for VP. Rather than picking someone he wanted he was reduced to only 2 choices. Go McCain!



huskarine -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 8:17:30 AM)

i liked the McCain ad going against Biden and Obama by using Biden's own words against Obama in a debate...it was beautiful...



todd_t -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 9:40:45 AM)

Just bear in mind that if McCain picks Romney as his VP, the Obama campaign will have a wealth of sound bites at their disposal of the two sniping at one another during the GOP primary debates.



TaoPoohBear -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 9:55:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: inthysite

I think it's funny that the Democrats are saying that Biden helps their ticket.



The Case for Joe Biden

quote:

>There's no one in the Democratic Party who knows more about foreign policy and is as comfortable speaking about it as Biden.
Here's a snippet from Biden's comments about McCain during a conference call last month: "He doesn't get it. The mere fact that you would have someone compare the circumstances now, in the past, or in the future, of Iraq to the ending of World War II and the ending of the Korean war absolutely demonstrates a total fundamental lack of understanding of what the problems America faces."

>It's a strange thing to say about a guy who has spent 36 years in the Senate but Biden genuinely has appeal to the blue-collar, working class voters that Obama struggled to attract during the Democratic primaries.
Biden is the kind of guy most voters can imagine themselves having a beer (or, heck, a boilermaker) with -- a crucial hurdle when it comes to electing a president. (George W. Bush, widely dismissed by elites, was elected to two terms due in no small part because he was perceived as far more of a regular guy than either Al Gore or John Kerry.)

>During the primary season, Biden surprised many observers by winning a number of crucial endorsements in Iowa despite the fact he was a decided longshot. In fact, in the days leading up to the caucuses, there was some buzz that Biden could shock the world and end up in the top three thanks to the energetic and effective campaign he ran.
He thinks quickly on his feet, is extremely well versed on the issues of the day, and, most importantly, knows how to inject a bit of humor into the proceedings.


I think Biden makes it a winning ticket.
With a little luck they'll have a 2/3 majority in Congress as well.



stamper_ben -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:01:17 AM)

quote:

There is so much spin going on by the Democrats in Denver right now that it's caused at least 4 tornadoes.
[sm=purplelaugh.gif]

quote:

Just bear in mind that if McCain picks Romney as his VP, the Obama campaign will have a wealth of sound bites at their disposal of the two sniping at one another during the GOP primary debates.
He should pick Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska.



davemiller7 -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:17:17 AM)

I really like Sarah Palin, from what I've heard and read. Since the Obamessiah picked an "attack dog," maybe McCain should pick his own attack dog. For that, I think the ideal one would be Alan Keyes. Because he is black, Keyes could go after the issues that are "off-limits" to the white man. He's a strong Christian, pro-life conservative and a powerful speaker who won't pull any punches.

It won't happen, but I can still wish.

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

There is so much spin going on by the Democrats in Denver right now that it's caused at least 4 tornadoes.
[sm=purplelaugh.gif]

quote:

Just bear in mind that if McCain picks Romney as his VP, the Obama campaign will have a wealth of sound bites at their disposal of the two sniping at one another during the GOP primary debates.
He should pick Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska.



todd_t -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:31:25 AM)

When Keyes is relaxed he sounds pretty rational, but when he goes into emotional overdrive he sounds like a raving lunatic.

I felt a bit sorry for him when the GOP trucked him into Illinois at the last minute to run against Obama for US Senate. Keyes never had a chance - chiefly, because he was an out-of-stater with no familiarity of Illinois or its people.



tafkam -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:37:36 AM)

quote:

I know a lot of the Hilary hate has dissipated in recent months just because Obama seems to have become the new focal point of hatred for the right wing,


I love this....any measure of disagreement with a political candidate is always labeled as "hate", and both sides do it.

No reasonable person hates Barack Obama, just as no reasonable person should hate George W. Bush or Bill Clinton.

Do we disagree with their policies, their judgment? Yes. Do we think they'd be bad for the United States? Yes. But none of these mean we hate those people.

Can I call on both sides to knock off the "hate" rhetoric, because it does NOTHING constructive for any argument or debate...thank you very much..
quote:


With a little luck they'll have a 2/3 majority in Congress as well.


but wait, when it was Bush in the White House with a democratic Congress, that was good because it was all about "checks and balances"....I guess all that no longer applies if one party rules over all, right?



todd_t -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 11:06:22 AM)

quote:

I guess all that no longer applies if one party rules over all, right?


Precisely.



henny -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 9:41:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t

Just bear in mind that if McCain picks Romney as his VP, the Obama campaign will have a wealth of sound bites at their disposal of the two sniping at one another during the GOP primary debates.


Which makes me think that McCain will pick Pawlenty.

I don't think they would have attacked Obama in that way unless they knew that they weren't going to pick Romney.



henny -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:13:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: inthysite

I find it strange that all of a sudden everyone is saying how good of an attack dog Biden will be, that NObama needs an attack dog. NObama is supposed to be about change, not the same old politics any more, he is s different politician. But he is showing himself to be the same old liberal as all the rest.


I'd like to believe that one could win by taking the high road, but I don't think that's feasible. McCain was the first one to go negative (at least in terms of ads), so if Obama just tries to keep his nose clean and not effectively respond, he'd lose. Which is another reason why Biden is good, as Biden can go on the attack more aggressively, while Obama can focus on a more positive message (although, as I said before, "attacking" more aggressively has always been the role of the VP when campaigning).

quote:

Plus I thought everyone was saying how good NObama was at attacking McCain. Now all of a sudden he needs an attack dog? Sounds like more spin to try and put a positive light on Biden.


Who said Obama was good at attacking McCain? I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think he's been very good at it at all. For a couple weeks after he returned from overseas his campaign kind of floundered in the face of McCain's attacks, and I think they had a hard time responding and grabbing attention back, so he suffered in the polls. They have been much better the past week or so when his campaign pounced on the McCain houses gaff, and effectively pushed that. I actually don't think that alone will hurt McCain much, but what it does do in Obama's advantage is that it pretty much muzzles the McCain camp from pursuing the "elitist" narrative further on Obama (which was so effective against Kerry last time around), as all Obama has to do is remind them of the house incident to shut them up.

quote:


Again I find it strange that everyone was saying that McCain was running an ineffective campaign but apparently it was/is pretty effective. He managed to force the hand of NObama in his decision for VP. Rather than picking someone he wanted he was reduced to only 2 choices. Go McCain!


His campaign wasn't effective, up until around July when he restructured things, bringing in member's of Bush's old team, and went negative in a big way following Obama's trip over seas. Now I actually think McCain is running a very effective campaign, it's not a pretty campaign, but it's exactly the sort of campaign that I think people respond to.

But I don't think Obama's hand was forced in choosing Biden. It was pretty much assumed from the start that Obama would try to find someone with foreign policy experience as a VP, as that is his biggest week spot, and his Biden's name was being floated from the beginning. Choosing him makes more sense than anyone else I can think of.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Biden (8/25/2008 10:24:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t

When Keyes is relaxed he sounds pretty rational, but when he goes into emotional overdrive he sounds like a raving lunatic.

I felt a bit sorry for him when the GOP trucked him into Illinois at the last minute to run against Obama for US Senate. Keyes never had a chance - chiefly, because he was an out-of-stater with no familiarity of Illinois or its people.


And too firmly grounded in the word of God...



tafkam -> RE: Biden (8/26/2008 10:38:28 AM)

Sorry, I like Alan Keyes, but it was correctly pointed out that he does have somewhat of a "loon factor" going on when he gets cranked up.

I think Mccain should consider JC Watts as VP....



TaoPoohBear -> RE: Biden (8/26/2008 10:48:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t

quote:

I guess all that no longer applies if one party rules over all, right?


Precisely.

It's not like the Dems could do worse than the 2000-2006 Republicans.........



davemiller7 -> RE: Biden (8/26/2008 10:59:00 AM)

I agree that Keyes gets excited when driving home a point, but I can't disagree with anything he's said (from what I've heard, anyway).

I used to have great admiration for JC Watts, but he doesn't come out very strongly against the Obamessiah. I've heard JC a number of times recently and he really skirts the issue of going against him. And too, he's made it clear he doesn't want any part of politics anymore. Too bad, because he was once very strong.

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

Sorry, I like Alan Keyes, but it was correctly pointed out that he does have somewhat of a "loon factor" going on when he gets cranked up.

I think Mccain should consider JC Watts as VP....



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