RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?help me
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/12/2008 7:35:20 AM
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rwe2156
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
God WILL NOT judge someone who is mentally incapable of understanding the Gospel.
How do you know?
He is just.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/12/2008 7:40:25 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
that just seems so unfair though...
the baby cannot even think correctly yet! it doesn't know right from wrong.
How can God not allow the baby into heaven when it never even got the chance to accept Jesus?
A better question might be: How can God allow a baby to go to Hell who has not committed a single sin of its own yet?
TheoMinor related the Scripture in a previous post and I agree with his premise
that we are created with an inherited sin nature.
We are condemned for our deeds not our nature. Scripture is clear on that.
Original sin theology led to infant baptism, which is unbiblical.
Again, where does the Bible say we are held responsible for Adam's sin?
His sin corrupted the world and mankind stands condemned because men sin -
men sin according to their sin nature (depravity).
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/12/2008 10:40:08 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
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quote:
He is just.
So a just God will allow sin to go unpunished?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/13/2008 5:04:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
that just seems so unfair though...
the baby cannot even think correctly yet! it doesn't know right from wrong.
How can God not allow the baby into heaven when it never even got the chance to accept Jesus?
A better question might be: How can God allow a baby to go to Hell who has not committed a single sin of its own yet?
Before either did good or bad God chose one over the other...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/13/2008 5:05:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
that just seems so unfair though...
the baby cannot even think correctly yet! it doesn't know right from wrong.
How can God not allow the baby into heaven when it never even got the chance to accept Jesus?
A better question might be: How can God allow a baby to go to Hell who has not committed a single sin of its own yet?
TheoMinor related the Scripture in a previous post and I agree with his premise
that we are created with an inherited sin nature.
We are condemned for our deeds not our nature. Scripture is clear on that.
Original sin theology led to infant baptism, which is unbiblical.
Again, where does the Bible say we are held responsible for Adam's sin?
His sin corrupted the world and mankind stands condemned because men sin -
men sin according to their sin nature (depravity).
Thus the babies/infants/children were guilty regarding flood and in behind the walls of Jericho...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/19/2008 5:45:15 PM
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cih92
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I have a question for those of you who believe that all those who die in their infancy will be saved because they are not capable of believing in Christ. At what age does a person become capable of believing in Christ?
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/20/2008 6:53:21 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
I have a question for those of you who believe that all those who die in their infancy will be saved because they are not capable of believing in Christ. At what age does a person become capable of believing in Christ?
There is no set age. In varies from individual to individual. I've seen children as young as five ask Jesus into their hearts, understanding what that meant, and other children who didn't understand until they were eight or ten or even older.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/20/2008 3:23:18 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
There is no set age. In varies from individual to individual. Pure speculation. There is no scripture to support that.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/20/2008 6:27:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
I have a question for those of you who believe that all those who die in their infancy will be saved because they are not capable of believing in Christ. At what age does a person become capable of believing in Christ?
There is no set age. In varies from individual to individual. I've seen children as young as five ask Jesus into their hearts, understanding what that meant, and other children who didn't understand until they were eight or ten or even older.
And some people never understand....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/25/2008 10:33:10 PM
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Theo-Minor
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Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bare a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Is. 7:14-16)
Such an age of accountability does exist. Christ himself is spoken of as having a time when he, as a child, did not know to refuse evil and choose good.
There is mention also in the Law somewhere about children not yet at an age of accountability (though not necessarily in those exact words), but I don't readily recall where it was.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/25/2008 11:24:45 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Christ himself is spoken of as having a time when he, as a child, did not know to refuse evil and choose good.
This prophecy is not just referring to Christ - why would the king to whom it was made be encouraged about the birth of a baby that wouldn't happen for hundreds of years?
quote:
Such an age of accountability does exist.
Not necessarily. This phrase doesn't automatically mean that a child has absolutely no moral bearing or accountability. To say as much denies the countless atrocities committed by young children. Rather, it could easily be used as a figure of speech to denote the time in a child's life where they begin to think for themselves and act morally not because they are told so, but because they reason for themselves why being right is the better path.
Incidentally, this prophecy was fulfilled about (about, mind you) 12 years after Isaiah spoke it. Yes, it refers to Christ in some way, but it also had a contemporary fulfillment.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/26/2008 1:52:41 PM
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kingdele
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On the issue of whether an infant will go to heaven or not, I don't think we can be 100% certain. However, I can say that I suspect so.
1) If you look at what happened when Israel disobeyed God in the wilderness. God had a cut-off age for those who will not enter into the promise land. This shows that God did not hold the ones younger than that age as responsible as the ones older.
what if you are just a day older than that age? Hoops, hard luck!
2) Second is the principle of resurrection of the dead. I am not talking of the final resurrection, but the miraculous ones that happened in Jesus' ministry and the ministry of the Apostles. The only people that were raised from the dead were just people (people who will inherit eternal life) but Jesus also raised a girl from the dead (God raised a young boy through Elisha too). This might be a long shot, but it tells me that they also are going to go to heaven by the default of God's mercy.
So, I suspect that there is a point (maybe not age) of accountability and those who have not grown mentally to that point will not be held accountable for their actions. For instance, a mentally retarded person might be 40yrs old but having intelligence of a 1yr old.
I would not teach this to teenagers, because satan can use it to deceive them into getting hooked on a specific sin that will end up taking then to Hell. Also, a person who has enough intelligence to twist a good teaching to suit his lust, has probably passed that point of accountability.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/26/2008 2:02:12 PM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 11/26/2008 1:57:50 PM
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kingdele
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I wouldn't call it an age of accountability, but I will call it a point of accountably (which is probably different for each person). When a child know better. I will suspect that for most people that point comes before they reach puberty. Because at that point they are physically ready to be a husband or wife. Maturity, financial or emotional readiness might be another story.
I probably wouldn't be teaching this because the bible doesn't explicitly state it. I'd rather focus on the essential doctrines that the Bible state clearly.
quote:
God in His Grace and Mercy is willing to pardon anyone, but He is calling all Humans to have faith in Jesus Christ, who died and rose again for free forgiveness. All of us who come to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation, He commands to repent, change your our ways and sin no more.
Repentance: change my mind about sin and see it as the very very evil thing that it is
Change my ways: I can't change by myself I need someone (the Holy-Spirit) to help me change, but I must really want to change (Matthew 5:6).
Sin no more: we are not incapable of sinning, but we can choose to say no if we want by the power of the Spirit (Jude 24).
So, come as you are and be ready to change or (I am sorry to say this) you will not inherit eternal life.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/28/2008 1:32:34 AM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/2/2008 3:21:44 PM
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DaveW
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But is such an age of accountability, if it exists, salvic? If so, does that mean that one can lose salvation by "aging out" of the free pass?
One cannot look to Israel/the Jewish people for precedent here. They had the Mosaic covenant which covered the entire nation. As gentiles, we are ONLY accepted into the New Covenant by excercising our faith. Prior to excercising faith, we have no covenant with God at all.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/5/2008 8:12:23 PM
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glory_2god@hotmail.com
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Yes Infants do go to heaven it is said they are brought up and taught the way by Christ Him self.It is also said that they wait for there parents there.Jesus says in Gods word that we must come as little children if we are to make it in to heaven.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/6/2008 2:59:43 PM
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jimr1
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King David, sort of answers this question. If you've read the story of his affair with Bathsheba, the murder of her husband and the baby that was born. David finally admited his guilt, and Gods judgment was to take the child. But after he mourned for a day, He stopped, and said I will see my child again. This just tells me, that Gods perfect love will abound. If he can make provision for this baby, after this kind of behavior by David and Bathsheba. He surely has provided for all the innocent.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, Oh my soul. I thank the Lord that one day I too will be changed. I will shed this body of corruption and put on a new incorruptable body.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/7/2008 3:26:09 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
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quote:
Yes Infants do go to heaven it is said they are brought up and taught the way by Christ Him self.It is also said that they wait for there parents there.
Where does it say these things? : )
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/11/2008 10:01:32 AM
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phreddy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TrustingChrist
This is an interesting question of which I have no answer but speculation is the best I have to offer. I would say that an infant would go to heaven.
With that said this does bring up a question that I would like answered. I have heard that as an infant we as humans are born into sin or sin nature which is basically the same thought. So the question is What about Jesus? Is he not born fully human just as us? Was he born is a sin nature? If not then how is it that he was born just as us? Does the bible teach that we inherit our fathers sin or we are only responsible for the sins we our self commit? If the bible says that Jesus had not one sin then how is it that if humans are born in sin or sin nature and Jesus is born as fully human just like us that he had no sin?
Maybe we need to rethink the born in sin / sin nature line of thinking and see if there is a way to line it up where we have Jesus being born as we are and not with sin. This is the problem I have with such thoughts could some one help me with this?
Jesus did not have the "normal" human birth. I would suppose that the immaculate conception had some effect on the lack of sin of Jesus.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/11/2008 10:27:25 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jimr1
King David, sort of answers this question. If you've read the story of his affair with Bathsheba, the murder of her husband and the baby that was born. David finally admited his guilt, and Gods judgment was to take the child. But after he mourned for a day, He stopped, and said I will see my child again. It does nothing of the kind.
David was an Israelite, as was Bathsheba. That made their child an Israelite. God had national salvic covenants with Israel (the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants) that were entered into by being born an Israelite. A gentile child born today has no such covenant.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 12/11/2008 10:41:01 AM
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jimr1
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It's called the immaculate conception. Christ was born to a virgin with a human nature, void of the sin nature, by way of the Holy spirit. He was born fully God and fully man. That is how he was able to perform all the great things he did, and live his life as you and I do, yet without sin. Hope this helps, I'm sure there are better explanations. This is the way I understand his conception.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, Oh my soul. I thank the Lord that one day I too will be changed. I will shed this body of corruption and put on a new incorruptable body.
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