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[Deleted] - 9/6/2008 9:14:58 PM
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 9:16:43 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
It isn't the answer you seek and I when I played the bible says game you didn't wanna play either... I have been here before...
lol. There wasn't any answer I was seeking. I was just seeking an answer. You don't have one. That's cool. See ya.
You sure?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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[Deleted] - 9/6/2008 9:18:56 PM
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[Deleted] - 9/6/2008 9:20:25 PM
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 9:33:48 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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drmark,
quote:
Well, I would (respectfully) disagree with you, Him4all. Humility is a state of being humble, not doing or performing anything active. You have fallen ito the same faulty thinking as the Reformed crowd who incorrectly claim that faith is a good work. The more I chew on this, the more convinced I am that Matt 19:14 is linked back to Matt 18:2-4. Jesus is saying that a humble heart is the key to the kingdom of heaven and that the unaccountable are humble by nature. Thanks for helping me work this through, Him4all!
I don't think your work is done.  Peter and James weren't writing to babies about putting on humility. He was writing to adults who obviously (if they were humbel as children) were not humble anymore. I can also say that I'm not in the reformed camp concerning faith...I don't think it is a work. Take another look at Matt.
MAT 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children,
To me this is saying that you have to convert to become like a child. So if humbleness is the attribute we're needing then once again scripture is saying YOU put it on, or YOU clothe yourself with that which a child already has.
Isn't that thought more consistent with what you posted concerning children "before they lost humbleness" in post #27?
quote:
However, many commentators point out that Matt 19:14 uses the prepositional phrase "of such" (Greek twn toioutwn) to suggest it is the nature or character of a child (childlike humility as seen in Matt 18:4) that will be reflected in Heaven, not just the fact that such a one is prepubertal. Could the age of accountability then be the age at which a child loses their humble character?
Here you agree that a child lost humbleness. Now if God took it then I suppose we could expect Him to give it back whenerver. But if we lost it, then maybe it is up to us to convert back by putting it on. Makes sense to me.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 10:41:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
I know God well enough that being poor, marginalized or a widow IS NOT cause for Him to save them...
wow.
I guess God came for the well and able, not the sick and poor.
What is sufficient cause for God to rescue or save someone?
Being a fallen human being...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 10:50:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
To me this is saying that you have to convert to become like a child. So if humbleness is the attribute we're needing then once again scripture is saying YOU put it on, or YOU clothe yourself with that which a child already has.
Every child?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 10:53:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
It isn't the answer you seek and I when I played the bible says game you didn't wanna play either... I have been here before...
lol. There wasn't any answer I was seeking. I was just seeking an answer. You don't have one. That's cool. See ya.
You sure?
John, stop being so cryptic. You haven't answered the question for the 10th time. I won't ask again. If you keep playing this sort of game I will consider it harrassment.
I haven't been cryptic nor have I nitpicked... I answered you... You have said before you are done yet you keep responding... And when I played the bible says game you didn't wish to participate...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 11:21:33 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
Here you agree that a child lost humbleness. Now if God took it then I suppose we could expect Him to give it back whenerver. But if we lost it, then maybe it is up to us to convert back by putting it on. Makes sense to me. Makes sense to me too. But this thread is not about those who have lost their humility and then die. It's about infants (and by extension, other unaccountables) who are still humble when they die.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/6/2008 11:24:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Here you agree that a child lost humbleness. Now if God took it then I suppose we could expect Him to give it back whenerver. But if we lost it, then maybe it is up to us to convert back by putting it on. Makes sense to me. Makes sense to me too. But this thread is not about those who have lost their humility and then die. It's about infants (and by extension, other unaccountables) who are still humble when they die.
Said to be humble when they die...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 12:08:35 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
To me this is saying that you have to convert to become like a child. So if humbleness is the attribute we're needing then once again scripture is saying YOU put it on, or YOU clothe yourself with that which a child already has.
Every child?
I'm not sure. But, I'm assuming so, for the sake of those who believe an infant goes into life in the hereafter without confessing Jesus here and now. What do you think? Every child, No child, Some?
drmark,
quote:
Makes sense to me too. But this thread is not about those who have lost their humility and then die. It's about infants (and by extension, other unaccountables) who are still humble when they die.
This thread is about being saved by grace. So how one acquires or activates said grace does, and has, figured in to this thread. And since children being 'naturally' humble is what I've bounced around for a number of posts, I'm really curious as to why all of a sudden you think it's off subject. Are you just wiggling a little bit here because I'm pointing out an inconsistency in your POV. At least I'm not saying you've fallen into some "Reformed" trap...or something. But honestly, I want you to share how you think your being consistent, and I'm just missing it. So why not just humor me and answer, even if it is a off topic in your opinion. Please.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 12:30:52 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
I'm not sure. But, I'm assuming so, for the sake of those who believe an infant goes into life in the hereafter without confessing Jesus here and now. What do you think? Every child, No child, Some?
I don't parcel mankind into groups that somehow are more deserving of God's mercy than others...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 1:14:58 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Emerging,
post 210
quote:
Eph. 2:8 says to me that first and foremost grace is free gift.
EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
This thread flew on me today so I'm reading back and have a question for you. Why do you think the verse says Grace is a free gift and not Faith? If that's what you believe I'm kind of surprized that you didn't question my earlier posts saying that grace isn't a free gift, but is acquired by humbling ourselves? So if Grace is free, then what do you do with the verses I shared mentioning humbling ourselves?
Just curious, what's your definition of grace?
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 1:24:31 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 463
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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John,
quote:
I don't parcel mankind into groups that somehow are more deserving of God's mercy than others...
They why did you even ask me the question about "Every Child" in #257?
Goodnite, I check back whenever.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 1:46:48 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
John,
quote:
I don't parcel mankind into groups that somehow are more deserving of God's mercy than others...
They why did you even ask me the question about "Every Child" in #257?
Goodnite, I check back whenever.
DR
If I as asked , every person would it have confused you?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 1:49:58 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
Emerging,
post 210
quote:
Eph. 2:8 says to me that first and foremost grace is free gift.
EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
This thread flew on me today so I'm reading back and have a question for you. Why do you think the verse says Grace is a free gift and not Faith? If that's what you believe I'm kind of surprized that you didn't question my earlier posts saying that grace isn't a free gift, but is acquired by humbling ourselves? So if Grace is free, then what do you do with the verses I shared mentioning humbling ourselves?
Just curious, what's your definition of grace?
DR
How is faith not a gift? Does man self generate it?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 9:53:34 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
The free gift in Ephesians 2:8 neither grace nor faith. It is salvation. Thank you again, gd46! The sloppiness of certain "exegesis" on this thread is becoming unbearable.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 12:49:47 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2980
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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ar 10:13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
the kingdom of heave belongs to this kind.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 1:49:17 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
ar 10:13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
the kingdom of heave belongs to this kind.
You believe only children brought to Christ are in heaven?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 9/7/2008 4:40:03 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
These are important questions and issues and I am glad you bring them up. As it turns out I am teaching on this very subject tomorrow night as I lead a class in N.T. Wright's book, Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection and the Mission of the Church. Have you read this? I highly recommend it. Anyways, 15 minutes ago I finished his segment on evangelism and will be happy to share my notes with you when I finish. I actually have all the chapter notes on my blog. I'd be happy to PM you my blog address if you are interested.
I have unfortunately not read it (being in college still, I tend to spend my free reading time diving into fun things, a good Pratchett or Gaiman, since I'm assigned to read "serious" works for school), but I would be delighted to peruse your notes! PM away. : )
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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