RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/27/2008 2:18:44 PM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
One cannot successfully legislate morality.
This is a common misconception. On the contrary, there are laws regarding polygamy, adultery, the age of consent, etc. Whether a person chooses to break the law is another story.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/27/2008 2:32:26 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
We can legislate laws governing morality. Exercising morality, however, is an individual choice.
That is a great quote!
"My brothers, remember that you have been called to live in freedom - but not a freedom that gives free rein to the flesh. Galatians 5:13 This is what is not being taught at our nation's colleges.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/27/2008 6:54:50 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
French curb on alcohol sales as teenagers discover le binge drinking
quote:
Scottish doctors want new laws to tackle alcohol problems
Interesting how both are countries in Europe. Perhaps European countries are actually recognising, admitting and doing something about the problem rather than pointing fingers and saying that they aren't the worst?
Here's another article.
quote:
21 age rule for weekend drinkers
Shops and off-licences in a part of Carmarthenshire are no longer selling alcohol to anyone under the age of 21 at weekends.
The move introduced in villages in the upper Gwendraeth Valley is aimed at combating anti-social behaviour.
All outlets selling alcohol in the area have signed up to the voluntary scheme.
Dyfed-Powys Police said many under-age drinkers in the area were getting their alcohol from friends in the 18 to 21 age bracket.
Most supermarkets warn customers they will be asked for identification if they look under 21.
But police community support officer Ciaran Ryan said the initiative went a step further, stopping under 21s buying alcohol on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/7560729.stm
The id for under-21's is common across the UK, not just in this area. It is checked and maintained frequently ~ and I've seen checkout operators decline someone alcohol because they don't have id several times.
I just think it's interesting that the UK and even France seem to be going in the opposite direction from the U.S.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/28/2008 1:11:27 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
One cannot successfully legislate morality.
This is a common misconception. On the contrary, there are laws regarding polygamy, adultery, the age of consent, etc. Whether a person chooses to break the law is another story.
Yeah, those adultery laws have really made a difference.  Of course, we could adopt Sharia law.
I'm sure you are trying to be recognized as the Queen of Politically Correctness, but morality is virtually the only thing that is legislated. The question is whose, not whether.
The morality legislated has to be that which most people support. Otherwise, we'd have theocracy.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/28/2008 5:24:52 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The morality legislated has to be that which most people support. Otherwise, we'd have theocracy.
Nonsense. Humanists and other groups propose and get legislation passed all the time. Just because it's someone sense of morality, doesn't mean that God or even a god was the source.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/28/2008 6:03:08 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The morality legislated has to be that which most people support. Otherwise, we'd have theocracy.
Nonsense. Humanists and other groups propose and get legislation passed all the time. Just because it's someone sense of morality, doesn't mean that God or even a god was the source.
But those moral values aren't the exclusive domain of one religious group.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/28/2008 9:36:34 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
But those moral values aren't the exclusive domain of one religious group.
Then how do we communicate the message that binge drinking is not acceptable behavior? How does one change a culture where binge drinking is glorified rather than condemed?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/28/2008 10:00:29 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
One cannot successfully legislate morality.
This is a common misconception. On the contrary, there are laws regarding polygamy, adultery, the age of consent, etc. Whether a person chooses to break the law is another story.
Yeah, those adultery laws have really made a difference. Of course, we could adopt Sharia law.
I'm sure you are trying to be recognized as the Queen of Politically Correctness, but morality is virtually the only thing that is legislated. The question is whose, not whether.
Actually, our legal system is based more upon the idea of preventing one person from cheating, endangering, harming, or otherwise infringing upon the rights and freedoms of another. Yes, there are laws based on some notion of morality, but by and large, it's mostly freedom and independence.
-Dan.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/29/2008 7:29:25 AM
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10SNE1?
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I didn't read past the first page of this thread so posting kind of blind but:
I agree that the '18 to be an full-fledged adult with all the rights and privileges thereof.....but you can't have a beer" is just crazy.
Having sent three kids to college and one more to go next year, I disagree with the notion that college presidents just want their underage drinking problem to go away. College presidents and their staffs want to be able to adult conversations with adult students about the dangers of abusing an adult privilege. And right now they can't. Legally, all they can do is say "Don't drink" They can't talk about responsible drinking, how to take care of a friend who has had to much too drink ( as in don't leave them, take them home etc) all the current law allows is a kind of standing in the corner with their eyes closed and their hands over their ears while shouting 'no,no, don't drink!"
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/29/2008 12:10:59 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3960
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
But those moral values aren't the exclusive domain of one religious group.
Then how do we communicate the message that binge drinking is not acceptable behavior? How does one change a culture where binge drinking is glorified rather than condemed?
Binge drinking is not glorified across the board by any means. I have a kid in college and it is clear the school takes a dim view. Even large secular universities are looking for ways to limit alcohol. Cities that are traditional "Spring Break" towns have stepped up enforcement as well.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/29/2008 3:45:09 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Actually, our legal system is based more upon the idea of preventing one person from cheating, endangering, harming, or otherwise infringing upon the rights and freedoms of another. Yes, there are laws based on some notion of morality, but by and large, it's mostly freedom and independence.
-Dan.
I guess if you repeat the silly notion that our laws are by and large amoral, then the herd instinct will cause some people will buy into it. The reality is that most, if not all, of our laws are based on the majority of any given legislature's moral code. Even the freedom and independence thingies.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/29/2008 5:14:12 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2742
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Binge drinking is not glorified across the board by any means. I have a kid in college and it is clear the school takes a dim view. Even large secular universities are looking for ways to limit alcohol. Cities that are traditional "Spring Break" towns have stepped up enforcement as well.
Part of the problem is the culture that glorifies binge drinking. Look at movies, MTV, beer commercials, etc. When one mentions "the world's largest outdoor cocktail party" almost all sports fan know the reference is to the Florida-Georgia football game.
One could ban alcohol from the campus, but that would just drive the problem off campus. Most of the individuals in the areas around a college campus are tired of dealing with the rowdy behavior from its students. Would the expelling of a student found guilrty of disturbing the peace or drunk and disorderly help change the culture.
During the '96 Eastern Conference Finals the Canes battled the Sabres. But fighting wasn't limited to the ice. After the end of the first game. drunken Sabres fans started to trash any car that flew a Canes flag. This caused drunken Canes fans to get into the action. Canes management found the area they had been using as a broom closet, was, in fact, a jail cell.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/30/2008 7:58:50 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17916
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
tion. Students who are working to pay for their tuition, books and/or living expenses were far too busy and poor to binge drink. The majority of students going off to college at 18 years of age on mommy and daddy's money were far more likely to throw away their opportunity for a college education on alcohol.
Now ain't that the truth!
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/30/2008 9:59:38 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 476
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
More interesting stuff:
quote:
Friday, August 22, 2008
Scottish doctors want new laws to tackle alcohol problems
BMA Scotland wants end to irresponsible loss-leading
New laws must be introduced to tackle alcohol misuse in Scotland, doctors have argued.
The British Medical Association (BMA) Scotland has responded to the government’s proposals on tackling alcohol-related problems by claiming that the drinks industry’s voluntary measures have failed because of a “conflict of interest”.
Instead it calls for immediate legislation and practical action.
However, the off-trade is very much the focus for the BMA. In its response it calls for an end to deep discounting and loss leading promotions, as well as two-for-one offers.
The BMA also supports the debate around raising the minimum age for off-trade sales to 21.
the rest of the article is here.
I've got distant cousins in Scotland who thought it was hilarious that I wouldn't drink (I can get hammered on half a beer). But as both of my parents- my mixed-blood Native mother and my Scots-American father- are recovering alcoholics, I decided along time ago not to put myself in harm's way.
Regardless of "maturity", EVERYONE is an idiot when they drink.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/30/2008 10:34:08 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Regardless of "maturity", EVERYONE is an idiot when they drink.
I assume you meant everyone is an idiot when they drink too much, right? Not just for having a drink? Not that I want to take this off topic...
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