In the multitude of words...... (Full Version)

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Little_1 -> In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:13:39 PM)

Proverbs 10:19 (New King James Version)

In the multitude of words sin is not lacking,
But he who restrains his lips is wise.


What does this verse mean to you?



mvic -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:23:46 PM)

Can't tell you in case I say the wrong thing !!!



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:27:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Can't tell you in case I say the wrong thing !!!


[:D]



mvic -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:27:29 PM)

Seriously though ...

I suspect it advises people to think (count to ten) before speaking.

My Bible (Good News Bible) says: The more you talk, the more likely you are to sin. If you are wise, you will keep quiet.



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:28:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

......I suspect it advises people to think (count to ten) before speaking.


Good point



LCannon -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:30:43 PM)

'Talk is cheap; show me your faith without obedience and I
will show you my faith by my obedience.' James 2:17,18



mvic -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:31:08 PM)

I prefer the modern version of this proverb:

Better to keep quiet and let people think you're stupid than talk and prove it.



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 12:35:36 PM)

This is a challenge for me because I like to talk and post online for that matter! There is some real good teaching in each of these texts, i.e. the text in the OP and the ones LCannon and mvic have shared.

Personally, what the Lord has been challenging me about however is that the OP text, i.e. Proverbs 10:19 seems to teach that whilst it is not wrong to speak up about what we believe, we also have to exercise wisdom and know when to refrain.



Liveloved -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 3:52:03 PM)

quote:

This is a challenge for me because I like to talk and post online for that matter! There is some real good teaching in each of these texts, i.e. the text in the OP and the ones LCannon and mvic have shared.

Personally, what the Lord has been challenging me about however is that the OP text, i.e. Proverbs 10:19 seems to teach that whilst it is not wrong to speak up about what we believe, we also have to exercise wisdom and know when to refrain.


I am in agreement, Little_1, and this verse from Proverbs has long been a favorite of mine. Being led by the Spirit is the key to all we do---whether in thought, speech or action. And another favorite verse that goes along with your Proverb is James 1:19-20, be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.

We are not a listening people. That is why scripture so frequently says 'he who has ears to hear, listen to what the Spirit says'. Now we know that most of us have two ears. But most do not have ears to hear. Speech can certainly block out hearing. So the admonition to be slow to speak allows for more opportunity to hear.

But it is all undergirded by humility.



makarizo -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 3:54:01 PM)

Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent.

I like to talk too!!!!! Solomon must have known something that I was not aware of.



Giulia -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 7:40:37 PM)

quote:

Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent.


I try do this a lot when I don't understand,just keep it zipped. Then I also ask a lot and look the fool but it's ok because usually it turns out many others didn't understand either[:D].



sunshine4God -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/23/2008 10:50:04 PM)

I need to learn to control my tongue and to be silent before God letting him speak to me.This is a big struggle for me.



URForgiven -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 12:27:59 AM)

This thread made me think of Matthew 17:4-5...

Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

Peter had his own idea of what was happening, but his idea was not Gods. He was so excited he was babbling and God the Father Himself was compelled to tell him to basically shut up and listen. The whole scene is just hilarious.

In the presence of greatness, God reminds us that the appropriate thing to do is to shut up and listen.

Peace



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 5:30:01 AM)

Both Liveloved and URforgiven have made a relevant point which leads on from the OP regarding being "good listeners."



sparkleingsnow -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 10:07:24 AM)

I think it means this:

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

But Jesus also said:

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Our mouths reveal our hearts.



LivingParadox -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 10:22:49 AM)

I wish I could say I never sin in this way. Generally speaking I am reserved in judgements until more details are clear but sometimes in a fit of frustration, anger....the words flow ...and so does the sin. More harm is often done with one tongue than a dozen swords. Anger in and of itself is not sinful, but was are warned to "not sin" in our anger. I think maybe sometimes we try to take the reins and take back control when control isn't ours to take charge.

Anger, Gossip, Slander, Deciet...all sins of the tongue. More words, more sin. Less words, less probability of sins from the tongue. Wisdom is knowing when not to speak as much as when to speak.

Throwing out another question of the tongue...is there a time when not speaking is sinful?



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 10:38:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

......Our mouths reveal our hearts.


Not always easy to accept but true.



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 10:42:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LivingParadox

......I wish I could say I never sin in this way. Generally speaking I am reserved in judgements until more details are clear but sometimes in a fit of frustration, anger....the words flow ...and so does the sin......


Worthwhile point.



SonInMe1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 2:01:49 PM)

People talk too much.

The internet.

Cell phones.

We seem to insatiably to seek the over exposure of words.

How can anyone possibly speak on the phone for more than a few minutes and have something to say...esspecially to someone they just spoke to the day before..and the day before that..and the day before that??

Who do you speak to..every morning...at 6:30 am? ( the first shift guys come in at that time with cell phone to ear...more than one...and every morning )

Who do you speak to at 4 am on the cell phone? ( The third shift guys at break time ) Everyday.

People are speaking to each other so much, communication has not only been cheapened, its almost non-existant. The more people say, the less they communicate.



Liveloved -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 4:50:23 PM)

quote:

Our mouths reveal our hearts.


While I agree with this, ss, I have to ask 'by whose judgment'? IOW, we judge others by what is in OUR OWN HEARTS. So if I judge you and my heart is fleshly, my judgment is going to be fleshly. So if I'm judging what comes out of your mouth/heart based on what is in my fleshly heart, the judgment is fleshly and worthless.

I have watched this kind of fleshly judgment take place (usually in the church) between Christians over and over and over again. And most have no idea what they are doing because they do not know their own hearts. They are in the flesh, immature not spiritual men acting as spiritual men. (Just as Paul had to address this in Corinth.)

So while agreeing with your statement and knowing what you mean, I'm just wanting to raise our awareness because most people are judging others by what is in their own heart and they are being deceived by their own fleshly heart. So what is 'revealed' to them is NOT what God sees at all.

This is why we need to know and understand what 'righteous judgment' is. Spiritual men practice righteous judgment. It is a very different thing and the only kind of judgment that is truly going to know another's heart. (John's gospel expounds on 'righteous judgment'.)

Anyway, I'm hoping in my 'multitude of words' to help others realize that deceitful fleshly hearts judging what is coming out of someone else's mouth and heart is not a valid measurement and should not be trusted.



Little_1 -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 5:17:00 PM)

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread.

I am going offline for a while so any posts hereafter this one, sorry I won't be answering a while.

I need to spend more time in study and God's Word and being honest, I have been spending too much time online recently and need to take stock of things.

Take care and keep looking unto Jesus - the Author and Finisher of our faith.

God bless
Little_1 xx



Liveloved -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 5:19:01 PM)

quote:

Throwing out another question of the tongue...is there a time when not speaking is sinful?


Good question and the answer is absolutely. When our intent is to deceive for reasons that benefit us rather than God, that silence is sinful. It is all a matter of the heart. Rahab's deceit to protect the whereabouts of the spies was viewed as OK---her intent was godly. Abraham's deceit about Sarah being his sister was not OK---his intent was to protect himself. Even though Sarah was his half sister, God still viewed it as wrong.



Giulia -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 7:32:31 PM)

When we keep quiet when we should be witnessing is not good either. To keep quiet about injustices in also not good and is like the story of the Samaritan.



deliveredarling -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 7:42:09 PM)

quote:

While I agree with this, ss, I have to ask 'by whose judgment'? IOW, we judge others by what is in OUR OWN HEARTS. So if I judge you and my heart is fleshly, my judgment is going to be fleshly. So if I'm judging what comes out of your mouth/heart based on what is in my fleshly heart, the judgment is fleshly and worthless.

I have watched this kind of fleshly judgment take place (usually in the church) between Christians over and over and over again. And most have no idea what they are doing because they do not know their own hearts. They are in the flesh, immature not spiritual men acting as spiritual men. (Just as Paul had to address this in Corinth.)

So while agreeing with your statement and knowing what you mean, I'm just wanting to raise our awareness because most people are judging others by what is in their own heart and they are being deceived by their own fleshly heart. So what is 'revealed' to them is NOT what God sees at all.

This is why we need to know and understand what 'righteous judgment' is. Spiritual men practice righteous judgment. It is a very different thing and the only kind of judgment that is truly going to know another's heart. (John's gospel expounds on 'righteous judgment'.)

Anyway, I'm hoping in my 'multitude of words' to help others realize that deceitful fleshly hearts judging what is coming out of someone else's mouth and heart is not a valid measurement and should not be trusted.


I disagree with this. ( I know, big surprise[:D])

If I am understanding correctly, you are saying that we judge people based on what is in our hearts based on what comes out of their mouths?

Based on this understanding, I totally disagree. Discernment breaks through that.
People can be conning someone, I don't believe based on what is in our hearts we would be misjudging them.

The eyes don't lie. Take for example an actively using addict. How do you know they are lying? Their lips are moving.
That's not based upon our own hearts, that's based on their actions speaking louder than their words.

It's not a fair statement to say that we judge other people based on what's in our hearts. If Jesus is the Lord of our lives, He will give us the wisdom to see through manipulation, guilt trips, to keep us safe. OTOH, He gives us the wisdom to see through the through things, to see a heart full of love.



Liveloved -> RE: In the multitude of words...... (8/24/2008 8:47:58 PM)

quote:

disagree with this. ( I know, big surprise )

If I am understanding correctly, you are saying that we judge people based on what is in our hearts based on what comes out of their mouths?

Based on this understanding, I totally disagree. Discernment breaks through that.
People can be conning someone, I don't believe based on what is in our hearts we would be misjudging them.

The eyes don't lie. Take for example an actively using addict. How do you know they are lying? Their lips are moving.
That's not based upon our own hearts, that's based on their actions speaking louder than their words.

It's not a fair statement to say that we judge other people based on what's in our hearts. If Jesus is the Lord of our lives, He will give us the wisdom to see through manipulation, guilt trips, to keep us safe. OTOH, He gives us the wisdom to see through the through things, to see a heart full of love.


I am not saying this is the way we are supposed to be. But this is the way it is for most people. Most are not walking by the Spirit but by the flesh.

It is sad. The Apostle Paul had to deal with fleshly churches in his day. If he were here, he would be doing the same today.

True, we are supposed to be mature, spiritual men. I Cor 2 describes this type of man. But instead what we have are I Cor 3 men of flesh or James 3:13-4:3. What is the source of quarrels and conflicts? Your pleasures that wage war in your members is what James says. It's what's inside you. And that is how you judge others by what is inside you.

No it is not the way God would have us be. We are to be spiritual men, with spiritual minds and hearts. But all you have to do is look at how people respond to others, seeing the fleshly responses, and you see just what Paul was dealing with in the churches of his day. It's a church of babes yet on the bottle is what he and James and Peter saw. I see the same.



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