what does deny ourself mean (Full Version)

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applemom -> what does deny ourself mean (8/23/2008 11:41:23 AM)

Hi, well, as the subject says I am wondering what does the scripture mean?
Pick up your cross and deny yourself?

I have heard some say it means to 'pick up' Christianity, and deny the worlds way. In the simply reading of the verse, especially considering the verse after; Whoever desires to save his life will lose it, nad whoever loses his life for My sake will find it; this seems to be right.

However, I have also heard much about it meaning accept your 'lot in life', your personal sometimes private hardship.

I recently read something that contrasted the 'deny yourself with He didn't say have a positive self image".

So how do you balance having a positive self image, confidence, with the constant admonishion to deny yourself-consider others better than yourself-put others first?
Jesus had a positive self image, he also seemed to be able to balance private time with public time, this must have meant at times He said 'No' to someone.



rcjames -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/23/2008 1:34:29 PM)

It means to serve God and God's will in your life, and deny the sin nature that you were born with and tries to keep you from becoming a Child of God.


Thanks
RC



PastorPatricia -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/23/2008 4:23:50 PM)

Interesting question, this is the text for my sermon next week. Deny means to forget one's self, to loss sight of one's self and one's own interest. When the people of Jesus time say a cross they didn't think jewerly of wall ornament as we might they thought death and that what it means to take up your cross, to die to yourself and live for Christ. I'll watch this topic for ideas I can use for my sermon.



bob97 -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/23/2008 7:55:27 PM)

We must forsake our own desires in life and turn the outcome of our existence to the will of God. We must be willing to follow God where He would lead us and be willing to die in the name of Christ if that is what is required. To die in the name of Christ would be the highest expression of love that we could show...after all, that is exactly what Christ did for us. The man who cannot bring himself to surrender the one for the sake of the other will eventually lose both.


The natural man desires to fulfill his own desires and thinks it silly to totally accept the will of someone else. What the natural man doesn’t know…if we totally give our life to God, we gain a peace and joy that the natural man can only long for and never find.


Bob



Carico -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/24/2008 9:44:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: applemom

Hi, well, as the subject says I am wondering what does the scripture mean?
Pick up your cross and deny yourself?

I have heard some say it means to 'pick up' Christianity, and deny the worlds way. In the simply reading of the verse, especially considering the verse after; Whoever desires to save his life will lose it, nad whoever loses his life for My sake will find it; this seems to be right.

However, I have also heard much about it meaning accept your 'lot in life', your personal sometimes private hardship.

I recently read something that contrasted the 'deny yourself with He didn't say have a positive self image".

So how do you balance having a positive self image, confidence, with the constant admonishion to deny yourself-consider others better than yourself-put others first?
Jesus had a positive self image, he also seemed to be able to balance private time with public time, this must have meant at times He said 'No' to someone.

I think it means to lose one's attachment to our egos and worldly desires. In other words, stop doing things for our own success, greed, or self-serving purposes, but instead, in all things do unto the Lord. I literally feel like I experience death to my ego every single day.



applemom -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/24/2008 11:59:15 PM)

OK, RC I think I get that, so I resist temptation, exercise discipline, practice using the fruits of the spirit.


Bob, kindly, this is just the sort of answer that I find frustrating. What does what you are saying look like in action.
Do you mean that I stop doing something worldly I like, such as gardening, in order to work in a soup kitchen? I don't really think so, are you able to provice an example?

I want to turn my existence over to God, to follow Him. How do I know He is leading? Leading where?
I believe He has given me the desire/urge to garden, I enjoy it, so I don't think it would be right not to garden, (as long as it doesn't interfere with what you might call 'duty', if I took grocery money so I could buy heritage seed that would be wrong)
Not gardening and using that time to work in a soup kitchen just so I can be serving God, doesn't seem right either.
I have spent years trying to blooom where I am planted. Trying to be the best wife, mom, friend, daughter, I can be, useful in church, assisting in various charitable functions.
I don't smoke, drink, watch my weight, exercise, maintain devotions in the morning, pray regularly for family, friends, church and even people I am mad at, thats how I keep from getting bitter.
Today, my life doens't look much different than it did 20 years ago except now instead of having energy and feeling confident i feel like i am a walking waste of oxegen.



Carico -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/25/2008 12:21:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: applemom

OK, RC I think I get that, so I resist temptation, exercise discipline, practice using the fruits of the spirit.


Bob, kindly, this is just the sort of answer that I find frustrating. What does what you are saying look like in action.
Do you mean that I stop doing something worldly I like, such as gardening, in order to work in a soup kitchen? I don't really think so, are you able to provice an example?

I want to turn my existence over to God, to follow Him. How do I know He is leading? Leading where?
I believe He has given me the desire/urge to garden, I enjoy it, so I don't think it would be right not to garden, (as long as it doesn't interfere with what you might call 'duty', if I took grocery money so I could buy heritage seed that would be wrong)
Not gardening and using that time to work in a soup kitchen just so I can be serving God, doesn't seem right either.
I have spent years trying to blooom where I am planted. Trying to be the best wife, mom, friend, daughter, I can be, useful in church, assisting in various charitable functions.
I don't smoke, drink, watch my weight, exercise, maintain devotions in the morning, pray regularly for family, friends, church and even people I am mad at, thats how I keep from getting bitter.
Today, my life doens't look much different than it did 20 years ago except now instead of having energy and feeling confident i feel like i am a walking waste of oxegen.

Our cup can't be cleaned from the outside. Jesus has to clean it from the inside, then "for out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."

God doesn't judge our actions, he judges our hearts. Righteous acts on the outside without love on the inside are meaningless to God. Loving hearts produce loving actions. So the best thing we can do is confess our anger and hurts and receive God's glorious forgiveness because God already knows our feelings anyway. So we're not fooling Him by pretending we don't have them.

Then we live off the love & forgiveness of God and that's what we begin to desire more than anything else in the world because that's the only thing that lasts. I hope that helps. [sm=icon_smile.gif]



bob97 -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/25/2008 1:54:28 AM)

Applemom…I’m not sure that I can put the answer to your question into words that are understandable, but I’ll give it a try. Also forgive me because this is not something I do very well at all.

To begin with…to completely put our trust in God is not something that happens over night, it’s not like flipping a switch…at least not for me.

For me it is a combination of faith which is ever growing, love which is ever growing and a backward analysis of what God has already accomplished in my life. Maybe the analysis of what God has done is one of the more difficult to really appreciate, just remember who and what you are is for God’s purpose. You didn’t make yourself who you are…God did and He did it for a reason.


The faith aspect comes into play when we fully purge all doubt that God exists, that He cares for us and that every day of our life is according to His providences. It is the complete understanding that God controls and guides the lives of those who do, or who will belong to Him.

The love part of the equation is something that develops as we get to know our Father, when we spend the time to study His word, dwelling on it until we start to fully understand the complete picture of what it is telling us. This is not something that we acquire from casual reading of the bible and it is not something that others can teach us or tell us about, it's something we have to work out for ourselves. If you belong to God, if His Spirit indwells you, you already have the beginning of that love but the true love part of it is just like fully loving your husband. The beginning was erotic love but the true binding love occurred over time and after difficult situations cemented your relationship.

When this everlasting love has developed all you want to do is please God and if you truly love God everything you do in your life will be pleasing to Him because your actions are not for yourself but for Him. This doesn’t mean you are sin free but the sins you commit are more accidental rather than intentional. And believe me if you are living outside of His will, He will hammer you until you wake up and fly right.

Your relationship with God is not based on your works; it is based on your love. So don’t worry about working in the soup kitchen or going to Outer Mongolia as a missionary. When God wants you to do something special for Him, He will provide the opportunity and because of your love it will be something you will want to do. [:)]


Bob



DaveW -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/25/2008 8:06:53 AM)

I look at it as a cost and benefit idea.

If something costs me and benefits someone else, that is denying self.

If it benefits me at someone else's expense, it is sin.



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (8/25/2008 8:24:03 AM)

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FreeGrace -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/25/2008 3:42:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: applemom

Hi, well, as the subject says I am wondering what does the scripture mean?
Pick up your cross and deny yourself?

Good question, applemom! Since Jesus commands His disciples to do so, it behooves us to understand what He meant.

Keep in mind what the cross represented in the time of Jesus. It was used for the death penalty by the Romans. So, Jesus was linking denial of self with the death penalty. Now, to "deny self" means to put everything else ahead of self. So, we must put God first, other people next, and our selves last.

Now, to put the death penalty together with denial of self: we are to put everything else ahead of self to the point of our physical death, if necessary. Now, that's a tough one, but Jesus wasn't kidding around when He spoke of being a committed disciple. He wasn't looking for "part-timers".

quote:

I recently read something that contrasted the 'deny yourself with He didn't say have a positive self image".

So how do you balance having a positive self image, confidence, with the constant admonishion to deny yourself-consider others better than yourself-put others first?
Jesus had a positive self image, he also seemed to be able to balance private time with public time, this must have meant at times He said 'No' to someone.

The problem with "self image" is, pardon the expression, "self". The believer in Christ must develop the image of being in union with Christ, and becoming an imitator of Christ, as we are commanded to do.

Rom 12:2 is a command to be transformed. Transformed into what? Transformed into the likeness of Christ.

Our best "self-image" is when we take on the likeness of Christ. He was totally humble, gracious, loving. He sacrificed the ultimate for others, at the expense of His own life and dignity. Now, that's taking up one's cross and denying self!

Hope this helps.



timf -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/27/2008 8:48:02 AM)

I want to turn my existence over to God, to follow Him. How do I know He is leading? Leading where?

All religions except Christianity are works based (appeal to the flesh) and essentially consist of "If I do "X" I get "Y"".

The flesh (or old nature) is like a 2 year old child, he wants what he wants when he wants it. The definition of love in 1 Corinthians 13 is essentially selflessness. To see how we transit from self to the Christ-like love of selflessness, consider how "truth" works.

Jesus told believers that if they continued in His word, they would know the truth and the truth would set them free. If we look at who God is and compare it to who we are (in truth) we cannot help but be overcome with tremendous humility. In James we are told that God gives more grace to the humble. This is not because we are more worthy, but humility drives out some of the flesh and "self" that hinders the work of God in our lives.

"Truth" is a surgeons scalpel and we need to apply it throughout our lives. We need to cut away the comforting delusions to which we cling but insulate us from the transforming power of God. We even need to question some of our most basic assumptions in life regarding such things as church, work, marriage, and children. "Picking up a cross" implies difficulty and a type of "death". What dies is the flesh and what kills it is truth.

PM me and I can give more specific examples.



LastofAll -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/27/2008 6:54:55 PM)

For me, Christ defines it best in John.5:30; and as to why He of His own self can do nothing, and why His judgment is just; because He seeks not His own will, but the will of the Father. This is for me what self-denial is, that we no longer seek our own will, and carry our load and the cargo of others. For this cause did He also tell us to make ourselves last of all, and servants of all. Additionally, in Mark.15:30, when the people told Him to, Save yourself, and come down from the cross, He did not, but denied His will. Likewise for us, the world daily tells us to come down from morality, integrity, and unselfishness; but we must continue denying our own will, which might be to partake in immorality, dishonesty, and selfishness: and so we stay up on the cross, and refuse this world´s invitation to its downfall. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.



Gloryandgrace -> RE: what does deny ourself mean (8/28/2008 8:07:10 PM)

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11580889/

Hello applemom:

Read the above article from the link and tell me what you think those indian believers do to continue walking with Christ?

When following Christ subjects you to gang rape, being burned alive, run out of your home or fleeing for your life into the woods, do you think continuing to walk with Christ and maintaining your faith comes from taking up the cross or denying the cross? What did the indians do?

When your enemies so despise you as to burn down an orphanage of children belonging to their own community it shows the hatred within such men. Will doing anything less than carrying a cross bear you up under such conditions?

John



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