RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federal Bureaucrats
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 8:47:38 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite quote:
Now, for anyone other than terminally-obtuse Dem-bashers, the current five-day-eight-hours-a-day workweek has EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBER of work hours as the proposed FOUR-days-a-week-TEN-hours-a-day workweek. (Hint: They both total up to forty hours per workweek.) I never asserted that they would work less, my point was and still is that their answer to the energy crisis is to save themselves money on gas and figuring that by them using less gas it will reduce demand and we will all benefit from lower prices. Absurd! Your theory of economics being, then, that reducing the quantity demanded has NO affect on the price offered?
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 9:47:31 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Your theory of economics being, then, that reducing the quantity demanded has NO affect on the price offered? No, he doesn't think the measure will reduce demand because: A) it is too narrowly defined, its point of impact (federal workers only) is too small to have any real affect on demand and B) He does not concede that people drive less on their days off. I wholeheartedly agree with A. If we expand the measure to include most jobs that now have a five day week then we should attempt to study B, whether people drive less on their days off. I suspect that it is true but its not a no brainer. BTW: I think its a good idea (the overall change, not the grandstanding, symbolic but nearly meaningless change Congress is proposing) but I'd want to study it more before changing to it.
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 9:50:03 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000 quote:
Your theory of economics being, then, that reducing the quantity demanded has NO affect on the price offered? No, he doesn't think the measure will reduce demand because: A) it is too narrowly defined, its point of impact (federal workers only) is too small to have any real affect on demand and B) He does not concede that people drive less on their days off. I wholeheartedly agree with A. If we expand the measure to include most jobs that now have a five day week then we should attempt to study B, whether people drive less on their days off. I suspect that it is true but its not a no brainer. BTW: I think its a good idea (the overall change, not the grandstanding, symbolic but nearly meaningless change Congress is proposing) but I'd want to study it more before changing to it. You DO know the difference between "change in demand" and "change in quantity demanded", do you not? See, reason I ask is, your *reply* indicates that you think the two terms to be the same.
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 10:20:29 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
You DO know the difference between "change in demand" and "change in quantity demanded", do you not? See, reason I ask is, your *reply* indicates that you think the two terms to be the same. Enlighten me, economics isn't my strong suit. I would think the issue comes down to how much gas is used and therefore demanded (I don't think people collect gas to store it on a shelf). If people are using less gas then demand will go down. I don't believe federal workers using less gas will have enough of an impact to make a real difference in gas prices. But I don't think that's the point of this proposal anyway. You see it is possible to propose something that is (or may be) a good idea (4 day work week) but propose it for the wrong reason (to grandstand, to look like you're doing something when you aren't willing to take more effectual action) and to propose it in such a limited way that it will negate the positive impact of the idea and lead to more problems (which inthysite has outlined).
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 10:21:13 AM
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davemiller7
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The less congress does, the better off we are: fewer laws they enact. -Dave quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud quote:
Actually, if anyone is interested in the actual facts of the issue, as opposed to inthysite's and Jhud's deliberate misunderstanding of it, here is the story: Now, for anyone other than terminally-obtuse Dem-bashers, the current five-day-eight-hours-a-day workweek has EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBER of work hours as the proposed FOUR-days-a-week-TEN-hours-a-day workweek. (Hint: They both total up to forty hours per workweek.) Actully, I was simply expressing the utopian hope that congress would work less.
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 10:35:56 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite Here is some more information that the Washington Post left out of their article: Hoyer wrote to the the Office of Personnel Management early this month to ask give a report on the requirements needed for Congress to implement a four-day, 10-hour work week for federal employees. The policy has been adopted by state and local governments. Federal agencies have the prerogative to choose alternative work schedules under a federal law. In her letter to the OPM, Hoyer said, "Adopting a compressed work week would take approximately 20% of federal employees off the roads on any given week day, generating significant cost savings for the American taxpayer without a drop in productivity or decrease in service." House Republican Leader Calls Plan For Four-Day Work Week "An Insult To American Workers" the company I work for is now seriously looking into adopting a 4-day week here....for those who choose to move to that schedule. Right now, they are going around to each department, and making sure that adequate staffing is maintained, even though that may be MY 'day off' (i work in a department with 3 others...and we're all pretty "independent" of each other.....so, me working 4, 10-hour days won't affect them much)....but, in areas such as manufacturing or somewhere else, it MAY cause enough of an 'issue', that may prevent the company from offering this VERY "attractive" benefit. and, I commute 70 miles round trip each day....so, a 4-day work week would be great... Why is a four-day work week an "insult"?
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 11:13:50 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000 quote:
You DO know the difference between "change in demand" and "change in quantity demanded", do you not? See, reason I ask is, your *reply* indicates that you think the two terms to be the same. Enlighten me, economics isn't my strong suit. That much is obvious. Here's how it works - within a given demand curve (the "demand"), there is a single pricing point for each quantity demanded. The price rises if more quantity is demanded, less if less - but always along the same 'demand' line. (Much the same thing happens for a given 'supply' curve - the higher the quantity SUPPLIED, the LOWER the price goes.) Equilibrium is reached at the pricing point where the two given curves, supply and demand, interesect, and economic forces operate at both the macro and micro levels to first drive the quantities and the pricing to that point, and then maintain it there. THAT is 'changes in quantity supplied and demanded' within a given set of supply and demand curves. To change the supply and demand curves themselves requires a radical change in the underlying economy. For gasoline, it would require a major new source of energy that would replace gasoline in that role, much the same way that the replacement of horses with tractors in agriculture changed the demand and supply curves for both horses and tractors. (The replaces horses became cat food - replaced gasoline automobiles will become razor blades.)
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 11:38:23 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
That much is obvious. Nice pot shot, it is this sort of name calling that give liberals a bad name. Then you whine whenever somebody retaliates in kind. I've done none of that here but I guess since I think for myself and do not bow to dogmatic lines I'm destined to take it on both sides. Except the resident conservatives haven't done that. They haven't resorted to nasty remarks and pot shots, at least not to me. And I've spoken up when they have done it to others (my post history serves as evidence). So basically what you are saying is that a change in demand is much stronger because its a fundamental change in why or if the product is useful. And because that is the case, this change to a four day work week is completely useless as it will only lower the quantity demanded slightly when what we really need is a change in demand to a fuel source we have more of and are in more control over. Liberals talk a good game about this but when proposals are made they find a reason why we can't do it. And what will we do while developing those alternate resources (causing a change in demand)? We need a measure now to increase the supply to meet the demand. Isn't that basic economics? Please let me know where I got it wrong, I can admit I don't know everything. I'll be happy to learn from you.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 8/25/2008 11:48:34 AM >
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 11:57:31 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000 quote:
That much is obvious. So basically what you are saying is that a change in demand is much stronger because its a fundamental change in why or if the product is useful. And because that is the case, this change to a four day work week is completely useless as it will only lower the quantity demanded slightly when what we really need is a change in demand to a fuel source we have more of and are in more control over. While a change in demand is much stronger, that is irrelevant to the point of the thread. The point of the thread is that a change in quantity demanded can ALSO affect the pricing point - a basic law of economics which you not only didn't know, but are now stating does not exist. Sorry, but you are incorrect, as even your own subsequent phrasing indicates ("...completely useless as it will only lower the quantity demanded slightly ....") Why ask for a free education in the subject you chose to talk about, and then ignore it when it is provided? You might have had better luck trying for "it won't make a BIG difference", an argument you might have had better luck with, since the terms are nice and vague.
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/25/2008 12:35:54 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
"it won't make a BIG difference", OK fine. I never denied the existence of the principal but its relative effectiveness. Completely was the wrong word, not enough impact to make it worth it (since the proposal itself only impacts a small percentage of the population) would be a better way to state it. The error is duly noted as is the tone of your responses. But I can learn from all manner of people.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 8/25/2008 2:58:14 PM >
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RE: Democrats Pushing for Four Day Work Week for Federa... - 8/26/2008 8:22:49 PM
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Bas
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I propose they cut back to two weeks, twice a year, and take pay cuts accordingly.
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