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Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:04:56 PM
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Eracos
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Joined: 8/20/2008
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It concerns me that McCain continues to betray evidence of a mean streak of deception, womanizing, and obliviousness to consequences that seem to go unnoticed, especially for a man we are considering to elect to the highest office of our land. Reverend Warren had a golden opportunity to address much of this, which he effectively passed up, allowing McCain simply to mention his first marriage as a great failure on his part, and then gloss things over (like with the POW cross story).
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this? Why didn't Warren go further in his questions? It's not even a question of whether there was adultery (you can google "LA Times McCain first marriage" for just the beginning of this) - While McCain's first wife Carol was sick and hospitalized (not to mention getting older) and still recovering from her own traumas McCain took out a marriage certificate for Cindy in Arizona, without even having a legal divorce approved yet.
At the very least I see active deception and lack of responsibility here, and something which the Reagan's never forgave him for, apparently. (And with the recent stories about Vicki Iseman you wonder if he learned anything from this.)
It's also clear that not even fellow POWs from 'Nam think he's the right man for the job (you can google "phillip butler military.com" for one GI's opinion) - that given any leeway, McCain's past documents a streak of belligerence and lack of accountability that get conveniently labelled as "maverick", usually at the expense of the well-being of others, at least if they aren't fellow prisoners in a shockingly horrifying situation.
I've heard enough about Obama, he's getting plenty of scrutiny in the press, but what about the character and intentions of our other candidate?
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:09:42 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
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Because when it comes down to issues, McCain has a solid voting record to look at, whether you agree with it or not.
Obama's virtually non-existant record means that people will want to look harder at him to see what they're getting.
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:11:47 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eracos
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this?
As a Christian, if you choose to vote, you are going to have to ignore something about any candidate.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:13:22 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7785
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
It concerns me that McCain continues to betray evidence of a mean streak of deception, womanizing, and obliviousness to consequences that seem to go unnoticed, especially for a man we are considering to elect to the highest office of our land. Reverend Warren had a golden opportunity to address much of this, which he effectively passed up, allowing McCain simply to mention his first marriage as a great failure on his part, and then gloss things over (like with the POW cross story).
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this? Why didn't Warren go further in his questions? It's not even a question of whether there was adultery (you can google "LA Times McCain first marriage" for just the beginning of this) - While McCain's first wife Carol was sick and hospitalized (not to mention getting older) and still recovering from her own traumas McCain took out a marriage certificate for Cindy in Arizona, without even having a legal divorce approved yet.
At the very least I see active deception and lack of responsibility here, and something which the Reagan's never forgave him for, apparently. (And with the recent stories about Vicki Iseman you wonder if he learned anything from this.)
It's also clear that not even fellow POWs from 'Nam think he's the right man for the job (you can google "phillip butler military.com" for one GI's opinion) - that given any leeway, McCain's past documents a streak of belligerence and lack of accountability that get conveniently labelled as "maverick", usually at the expense of the well-being of others, at least if they aren't fellow prisoners in a shockingly horrifying situation.
I've heard enough about Obama, he's getting plenty of scrutiny in the press, but what about the character and intentions of our other candidate?
Well it seemed Warren tried as much as possible to limit questions and follow-ups to the same for both candidates - he didn't for example delve into Obama's drug use (nor has the press for the most part) or Obama's past relationships.
McCain admitted his past marriage and divorce was his greatest moral failure - I am not sure what more lurid details need to be known (or aren't already spread across the interenet).
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:34:13 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
It concerns me that McCain continues to betray evidence of a mean streak of deception, womanizing, and obliviousness to consequences that seem to go unnoticed, especially for a man we are considering to elect to the highest office of our land. Reverend Warren had a golden opportunity to address much of this, which he effectively passed up, allowing McCain simply to mention his first marriage as a great failure on his part, and then gloss things over (like with the POW cross story).
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this? Why didn't Warren go further in his questions? It's not even a question of whether there was adultery (you can google "LA Times McCain first marriage" for just the beginning of this) - While McCain's first wife Carol was sick and hospitalized (not to mention getting older) and still recovering from her own traumas McCain took out a marriage certificate for Cindy in Arizona, without even having a legal divorce approved yet.
At the very least I see active deception and lack of responsibility here, and something which the Reagan's never forgave him for, apparently. (And with the recent stories about Vicki Iseman you wonder if he learned anything from this.)
It's also clear that not even fellow POWs from 'Nam think he's the right man for the job (you can google "phillip butler military.com" for one GI's opinion) - that given any leeway, McCain's past documents a streak of belligerence and lack of accountability that get conveniently labelled as "maverick", usually at the expense of the well-being of others, at least if they aren't fellow prisoners in a shockingly horrifying situation.
I've heard enough about Obama, he's getting plenty of scrutiny in the press, but what about the character and intentions of our other candidate?
Well it seemed Warren tried as much as possible to limit questions and follow-ups to the same for both candidates - he didn't for example delve into Obama's drug use (nor has the press for the most part) or Obama's past relationships.
McCain admitted his past marriage and divorce was his greatest moral failure - I am not sure what more lurid details need to be known (or aren't already spread across the interenet).
Just yesterday you were claiming that these stories were 'innuendo, rumor, and gossip'.
http://www.ibelieve.com/m_3707831/mpage_5/tm.htm
Today you seem to accept their truth, and have shifted your argument to "I wish people would stop talking about them'.
Sorry, but if you are going to make an alleged moral failing of one candidate an issue, that makes ALL of them fair game.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:37:09 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7785
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
Just yesterday you were claiming that these stories were 'innuendo, rumor, and gossip'.
http://www.ibelieve.com/m_3707831/mpage_5/tm.htm
Today you seem to accept their truth, and have shifted your argument to "I wish people would stop talking about them'.
Sorry, but if you are going to make an alleged moral failing of one candidate an issue, that makes ALL of them fair game.
Well I think McCain's divorce form his wife is a matter of fact, and I personally think he went about it in a morally repugnant way - and it appears he does to. I never disputed this.
And I made it fairly clear, there ain't no man in this race without a moral failing; I don't personally consider Obama's past illegal drug use or sexual peccadillos 'fair game'.
< Message edited by Jhud -- 8/20/2008 1:07:57 PM >
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:40:55 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eracos
It concerns me that McCain continues to betray evidence of a mean streak of deception, womanizing, and obliviousness to consequences that seem to go unnoticed, especially for a man we are considering to elect to the highest office of our land. Reverend Warren had a golden opportunity to address much of this, which he effectively passed up, allowing McCain simply to mention his first marriage as a great failure on his part, and then gloss things over (like with the POW cross story).
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this? Why didn't Warren go further in his questions? It's not even a question of whether there was adultery (you can google "LA Times McCain first marriage" for just the beginning of this) - While McCain's first wife Carol was sick and hospitalized (not to mention getting older) and still recovering from her own traumas McCain took out a marriage certificate for Cindy in Arizona, without even having a legal divorce approved yet.
At the very least I see active deception and lack of responsibility here, and something which the Reagan's never forgave him for, apparently. (And with the recent stories about Vicki Iseman you wonder if he learned anything from this.)
It's also clear that not even fellow POWs from 'Nam think he's the right man for the job (you can google "phillip butler military.com" for one GI's opinion) - that given any leeway, McCain's past documents a streak of belligerence and lack of accountability that get conveniently labelled as "maverick", usually at the expense of the well-being of others, at least if they aren't fellow prisoners in a shockingly horrifying situation.
I've heard enough about Obama, he's getting plenty of scrutiny in the press, but what about the character and intentions of our other candidate?
It is because McCain has tons of good deeds to bank on that outweigh his failures. McCain was a fighter pilot. He was a POW for years. He adopted a destitute child. He paid all medical expenses for another child so she could be adopted by his friends.
Obama has none of this.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 12:45:55 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
It is because McCain has tons of good deeds to bank on that outweigh his failures. McCain was a fighter pilot. He was a POW for years. He adopted a destitute child. He paid all medical expenses for another child so she could be adopted by his friends.
Obama has none of this.
But he's married to woman that's finally proud of the US. Just wait and see how proud she's gonna be if he wins. But woe is us if he loses.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 1:05:59 PM
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SuspenseWriter
Posts: 445
Joined: 2/22/2008
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"Lose", Jimbo? Are you kidding? With the youth vote in his pocket, and now with all the abortion-adoring, tax-raising, gay-union affirming CINO's swooning at his feet, the election is Obama's, and it's in the bag. At this point, only he could foul it up. And that ain't gonna happen.
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer of suspense...obviously!
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/my-journal/
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 1:11:54 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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Methinks we need to stop needling candidates over their minor imperfections and mistakes in life and just focus on whether or not they will lead the country in the appropriate direction...
Bill Clinton's experimentation with marijuana would have been over and forgotten in a day or two if he hadn't felt the need to give us that gem "...but, I didn't inhale."
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 1:12:22 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
"Lose", Jimbo? Are you kidding? With the youth vote in his pocket, and now with all the abortion-adoring, tax-raising, gay-union affirming CINO's swooning at his feet, the election is Obama's, and it's in the bag. At this point, only he could foul it up. And that ain't gonna happen.
actually, contrary to this belief, according to realclearpolitics, obama is only up by 1.5 in the polls...not much, virtually dead even...
but the deficit between obama and mccain has seriously diminished...
this election is still way up for grabs, and it isn't even debate time, and vp announcement time...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 1:36:15 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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Yeah, it's anybody's race at this point. Personally, I think a lot of Dmocrats are having buyers remorse over the selection of Obama to carry the Democratic torch.
So basically, both sides have a candidate that they can't get very excited about.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 2:06:18 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
"Lose", Jimbo? Are you kidding? With the youth vote in his pocket, and now with all the abortion-adoring, tax-raising, gay-union affirming CINO's swooning at his feet, the election is Obama's, and it's in the bag. At this point, only he could foul it up. And that ain't gonna happen.
actually, contrary to this belief, according to realclearpolitics, obama is only up by 1.5 in the polls...not much, virtually dead even...
but the deficit between obama and mccain has seriously diminished...
this election is still way up for grabs, and it isn't even debate time, and vp announcement time...
I saw on Yahoo news today that it's McCain that's up - by 5 points.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 2:10:11 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eracos
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this?
As a Christian trying to follwo the teaching of Our Lord, have you forgotten about forgiveness.
McCain said in the Saddleback interview that the mistaqkes in his first marriage were the worst mistakes he ever made in his life.
And after all he is running for Prisident not Pastor of the First Baptist Church somewhere.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 3:08:15 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
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The difference between McCain and NObama is that McCain admits he was wrong and that it was a moral failing. NObama continues to try and explain away, excuse, and lie about his previous mistakes.
When have you ever heard NObama say he was wrong or mistaken?
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 3:10:01 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
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Sorry, deleted post. After reading realized it was incorrect.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 5:43:36 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eracos
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this?
As a Christian, if you choose to vote, you are going to have to ignore something about any candidate.
Kind of like many ignoring legalized infanticide with the killing of millions of unwanted babies?
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 5:51:26 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eracos
My question is, as a Christian trying to follow the teachings of Our Lord, am I to simply ignore this?
As a Christian, if you choose to vote, you are going to have to ignore something about any candidate.
Kind of like many ignoring legalized infanticide with the killing of millions of unwanted babies?
I imagine there are many who need to deal with that compromise.
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/20/2008 9:51:16 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Yeah, it's anybody's race at this point. Personally, I think a lot of Dmocrats are having buyers remorse over the selection of Obama to carry the Democratic torch.
So basically, both sides have a candidate that they can't get very excited about.....
quote:
I saw on Yahoo news today that it's McCain that's up - by 5 points.
My prediction is that McCain will handily win the White House, but the GOP will take big losses in Congress. As a result, McCain's first (and perhaps only) term will be contentious, and accomplish little in terms of landmark legislation.
In other words, he'll be a chair-warmer for the next president in 2012.
After losing the election this fall, Obama will return to the Senate where he'll build his resume, and run again for president in 2016.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/21/2008 12:00:54 AM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The common thing here to act as if the murder of 3500 unborn children isn't anything to be concerned with...oh, and praise  Jesus..
John
I am not surprised but rather saddened. What if a candidate said "I am against slavery, but I believe others should have the right to own slaves". I guess that would be a compromise they have to deal with.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/21/2008 1:21:49 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1266
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Yeah, it's anybody's race at this point. Personally, I think a lot of Dmocrats are having buyers remorse over the selection of Obama to carry the Democratic torch.
So basically, both sides have a candidate that they can't get very excited about.....
quote:
I saw on Yahoo news today that it's McCain that's up - by 5 points.
My prediction is that McCain will handily win the White House, but the GOP will take big losses in Congress. As a result, McCain's first (and perhaps only) term will be contentious, and accomplish little in terms of landmark legislation.
In other words, he'll be a chair-warmer for the next president in 2012.
After losing the election this fall, Obama will return to the Senate where he'll build his resume, and run again for president in 2016.
I think your description will end up being pretty accurate. Excluding some big bombshell, Obama is going to get pummeled in November. I HOPE congress doesn't move left, but it just might. As far as Obama running again in 4 years... I don't think he will ever have a chance of becoming the Dem nominee again, unless nobody else runs.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/21/2008 6:38:22 AM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
After losing the election this fall, Obama will return to the Senate where he'll build his resume, and run again for president in 2016.
If McCain wins I doubt you will see NObama run again but rather you will see Hillary run in 2012.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Saddleback, McCain's deceptions and his infidelity - 8/21/2008 7:11:37 AM
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DevoutDoc
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline
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Sorry guys, I just can't bring myself to vote for McCain. I'm not sure what the answer is... but all these questions about McCain's character. I'm not an Obama fan, however, on the question of marriage he does seem to have a long-term, loving Christian marriage.
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