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ORIGINAL: litfire2000
if warren buffett, one of the richest people on earth, goes on national television and says that his secretary shoulders a greater tax burden in relation to income than he does...i tend to believe him...he further said in effect that people in higher earnings brackets do not pay their fair share of taxes and that taxes should be increased on them to alleviate the burden carried by lower and middle class wage earners

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Buffett, the second-richest man in America, is too good at math not to understand the statistical con game he's playing when he pretends that the rich aren't paying their fair share of the tax burden. His latest gimmick is to claim that he and other high rollers in the Forbes 400 pay a lower federal tax rate than do their "secretaries and receptionists."

To pull off this sleight of hand, Buffett - in the style of class-warrior John Edwards - mischievously whips up a stew of populist assertions, convenient omissions and half-truths. While it's true that dividends and capital gains, from which Buffett derives most of his income, are taxed at a lower rate than his secretary's wages or Buffett's own salary, this is for perfectly good reasons. Companies that pay dividends to shareholders do so with after-tax dollars, having already paid a corporate income tax on their earnings. The lower tax rate that shareholders pay on this dividend income when they file their individual tax returns serves to offset some - but not all - of this double taxation.

Likewise, when one invests in a stock, one does so from savings that already have been taxed when the income was initially earned. Moreover, if the stock increases in value over the years, much of the gain is illusionary, eroded by inflation. The capital gains tax makes no allowance for this. A lower tax on capital gains is a productive incentive for people to defer current consumption and invest in the future, creating wealth for themselves and society.

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

So nobody wants to address how similar Jr's economic ideas are to his communist father's? I am surprised.

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EXACTLY! Thank you for pointing this out. Let us not forget that these "evil" big corporations don't just consist of a CEO. The biggest corporations and companies employ thousands of hard working people, and yet they are deemed evil because they managed to be successful and make money. The problem is covetousness and pride. People look at the big numbers put up by the big corps and think, "Hey, *I* deserve that more than them. *I* deserve more money."

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

So nobody wants to address how similar Jr's economic ideas are to his communist father's? I am surprised.

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

He is also a baby killer, a bald faced liar, an accuser, a divider, a racist, an un-giving miser, an elitist, and prideful. Oh, I almost forgot blasphemous by make-believing to be a Christian and mocking Christ by falsely representing Him.

I may have more later, thanks for asking!

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

HAHAH! Ok, after Jack's Princess Bride reference, THAT was the second funniest thing I have read all week! I am not being sarcastic with that statement, you really made me laugh out loud and I hope it was posted in that spirit!

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

Here are some excerpts:

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Buffett, the second-richest man in America, is too good at math not to understand the statistical con game he's playing when he pretends that the rich aren't paying their fair share of the tax burden. His latest gimmick is to claim that he and other high rollers in the Forbes 400 pay a lower federal tax rate than do their "secretaries and receptionists."

To pull off this sleight of hand, Buffett - in the style of class-warrior John Edwards - mischievously whips up a stew of populist assertions, convenient omissions and half-truths. While it's true that dividends and capital gains, from which Buffett derives most of his income, are taxed at a lower rate than his secretary's wages or Buffett's own salary, this is for perfectly good reasons. Companies that pay dividends to shareholders do so with after-tax dollars, having already paid a corporate income tax on their earnings. The lower tax rate that shareholders pay on this dividend income when they file their individual tax returns serves to offset some - but not all - of this double taxation.

Likewise, when one invests in a stock, one does so from savings that already have been taxed when the income was initially earned. Moreover, if the stock increases in value over the years, much of the gain is illusionary, eroded by inflation. The capital gains tax makes no allowance for this. A lower tax on capital gains is a productive incentive for people to defer current consumption and invest in the future, creating wealth for themselves and society.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Seems to me there's a plenty of peoples out there trying to do Obama in.

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It smells a little funny to me - especiallly when the person running against Obama is not a saint himself.

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Honestly, I swear I have said I would never be shocked again - but I return to these forums, and I am shocked.

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ORIGINAL: inthysite

Without these rich people there would be no big corporations

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Seems to me there's a plenty of peoples out there trying to do Obama in.

Namely himself...

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It smells a little funny to me - especiallly when the person running against Obama is not a saint himself.

I think because of many reasons Obama is getting more attention... That of course is both a good and bad thing...

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Honestly, I swear I have said I would never be shocked again - but I return to these forums, and I am shocked.

What is shocking? I have noticed that a lot of folks cannot handle the truth about folks like Obama and even McCain... It seems more than few people just want to pretend that there aren't evil people in the world and or there can't be ones who are running for the office of president... If I didn't know better I would wonder if there has even been a evil ruler...

John

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I think it's silly to talk about the candidates outside their politics - ie, I am a serious voter - not one that reads about about how Obama is allegedly part of a cult...that 'he's wicked,' I read about political stances, not gossip and heresay.

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BTW, no one is qualified to say so and so is wicked, that they are not Christian unless they are a perfect Christian themselves. And go ahead and get the stones out...

Peace and God bless,

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In all honesty, some of the stuff I post is just to be amusing. However, I really do think that Obama is a wicked leader who will make for a wicked president. My ultimate hope is that if enough of us beat that drum, maybe we can snap some well-meaning but irresponsible Christians out of whatever state they are in, and keep them from casting a vote that will give the USA an unrighteous ruler. The Spirit is not divided, telling one Christian to vote for this candidate but another Christian for the other candidate. I won't proclaim that a certain candidate is "God's choice", but I CAN tell you who IS NOT a godly choice: Barack Obama.

You ask if I have to keep bringing up the same points in each thread and the answer is "yes", I do, until Obama is no longer a threat to the nation. I am sorry if it gets boring for you, but if I can influence even one person to not pull the lever for BHO, or educate another member here enough that they can use this info to convince another person not to vote Obama, then I have done a Good Thing (tm).

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I think it's silly to talk about the candidates outside their politics - ie, I am a serious voter - not one that reads about about how Obama is allegedly part of a cult...that 'he's wicked,' I read about political stances, not gossip and heresay.

And I think it is silly to try to isolate one aspect of of reality from others. Not just silly, but dangerous. A candidate can SAY anything they want, but it is important to judge their whole character by examining their deeds and actions in every area of life. Are you telling me that you would vote for a person who had decent "politics" but was a drug addicted alcoholic who didn't pay his taxes and beat his children? I am sorry, but I cannot make separate a person into compartments.

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BTW, no one is qualified to say so and so is wicked, that they are not Christian unless they are a perfect Christian themselves. And go ahead and get the stones out...

Peace and God bless,

Really? Can you demonstrate that assertion from Scripture besides incorrectly pointing to "judge not lest ye be judged"? Because I can provide a pretty solid Biblical case for rightly judging the deeds and character of others.

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

...but if I can influence even one person to not pull the lever for BHO, or educate another member here enough that they can use this info to convince another person not to vote Obama, then I have done a Good Thing (tm).

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Please - your blind support for Republicans is blatantly transparent to an independent like me.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain left a crippled wife behind and married into huge wealth; but that Obama worked his way to where he is, has been married to ONE wife for decades with a beautiful family.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain voted in favor of Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer - yet has the audacity to claim he would NOT nominate them as SCJs.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain's own stance on abortion (that it be legal ONLY in the 3 exceptions) is at odds with the Repbulicans own platform.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain scores a 66% from the nrlc.org.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that Obama is NOT proposing a single payer health care system - only Nader is. And I assume you know what single payer is = 100% government paid health insurance.

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Instead you dismiss these moral blemishes on McCain's fascade simply because he is a Republican - it's so blatant that it's actually funny. Some of us actually look at issues, ManimalX, and not blindly follow a party. God is WAY above politics.

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And yes, that is the correct verse (and there are many others like them in the Bible like them).

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Please - your blind support for Republicans is blatantly transparent to an independent like me.

Oh, I BEG your PARDON! I didn't mean to cross *gulp* an INDEPENDENT! For all your claim that God is above politics, you seem mighty proud of you affiliation... but what do I know, I am just a lowly Republican and could never come up with the sort of conclusions a sophisticated INDEPENDENT could.

I support defeating the greater evil. The Republican party is the party that will accomplish that. John McCain is the Republican nominee. If I thought Alan Keyes had an ice cube's chance in hades of winning, I would happily support him instead.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain left a crippled wife behind and married into huge wealth; but that Obama worked his way to where he is, has been married to ONE wife for decades with a beautiful family.

Ok, let's talk: he made a mistake, one that he has admitted to being his greatest failing, almost 3 decades ago. He has also been married now for almost twice as long as the Obamas, with a likewise "beautiful family". Wow, he sure is a dastardly fellow...

Plus, Obama's marriage may be commendable, but he still mocks the institution with his support of the perverted practice of homosexual marriage.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain voted in favor of Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer - yet has the audacity to claim he would NOT nominate them as SCJs.

McCain realized his job was to give an up or down vote based upon qualifications, not his personal emotions. This is unlike the cowardly Democrats who are blocking scores of qualified judges from even getting a vote because they know their precious special interests will be damaged by fair and just judges. And, even if he did approve of them at the time, it isn't hard to see that they have made a mockery of our judicial system and Constitution in the intervening years.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain's own stance on abortion (that it be legal ONLY in the 3 exceptions) is at odds with the Repbulicans own platform.

As opposed to Obama's "All Death All the Time Extravaganza!"? As I have said many times, McCain is no saint, but he is leagues beyond Obama morally and ethically.

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You don't want to talk about the fact that McCain scores a 66% from the nrlc.org.

Which is why I didn't caucus for him. That is why only support him because he will keep Obama out of the Whitehouse. Oh wait, I forgot. I blindly follow the Republican party like a zombie...

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You don't want to talk about the fact that Obama is NOT proposing a single payer health care system - only Nader is. And I assume you know what single payer is = 100% government paid health insurance.

Honestly, I don't know much about Obama's health care plan. Health care has a pretty low spot on my issues totem-pole, so I apologize I cannot discuss this issue intelligently with you until I do some more research.

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Instead you dismiss these moral blemishes on McCain's fascade simply because he is a Republican - it's so blatant that it's actually funny. Some of us actually look at issues, ManimalX, and not blindly follow a party. God is WAY above politics.

You keep using that term, "blindly". Either you don't understand what the term means or you haven't bothered to think about the things I write, because it should be pretty obvious that my reason for supporting McCain is to ensure Obama's defeat. If you don't agree with my conclusions, fantastic. But to haughtily claim that you are the only one who has actually "looked at the issues" is pretty lame.

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And yes, that is the correct verse (and there are many others like them in the Bible like them).

No, it is not. All of those warnings about judging others? They are warnings against judging others unjustly, warnings against judging a person ultimately and presuming to do God's job. They are NOT instructions to never discern righteousness and evil when we see them. In fact, John 7:24 instructs us to judge rightly and 1st Timothy 5:24 says that the sins of some men are obvious.

No, we are NOT to be passive little pansies afraid to confront wrong when we see it. You know what, Obama might be a nice guy. We might even hit it off wonderfully at a BBQ. But he is NOT fit to lead our country.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana


1. I'm just saying that I take a good hard look at any candidate in contention, rather than following one simply because of the label, in your case, Repbulican. If you want to read something into that, go right ahead - that's your problem, not mine. And by being an independent, I can see flaws on both sides - apparently you see flaws only with the Democrats - again, transparency and lacking in crediblility since it's blantantly obvious that they both have flaws.