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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 6:47:43 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
- Exposed our spy programs.
Like Valerie Plame?
quote:
- Demanded OJ Simpson justice for our terrorists.
You mean the 86% of Guantanamo detainee who were released w/o being charged, because they'd never done anything?
quote:
- Called our soldiers stupid (Kerry)
- Called our soldiers cold blooded murderers (Murtha)
- Compared our soldiers to Nazis (Durbin)
- Called our soldiers terrorists (Kerry)
What's worse - calling soldiers names (a point which I'm not conceding) or sending them to fight an unnecessary war and then mismanaging the whole thing?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 7:55:56 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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iluvatar, i can't help but to disagree with you. as a former Marine, one of the biggest atrocities one could here is not the backing of those you are fighting for, or name calling. No American soldier wants to referred to as a Nazi, especially on the front lines.
Yes, going there sucks just as bad, probably even worse at times. But, people who enlist now a days, should enlist to fight for their country anyway. This involves where our congress votes for us to go.
When you are in a war, you have to be in it to win it. Nothing less. The name calling is horrible enough, and we need to win this war. Lets start it with, at minimal, support from the homefront and our nation's leaders!
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 8:34:42 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
iluvatar, i can't help but to disagree with you. as a former Marine, one of the biggest atrocities one could here is not the backing of those you are fighting for, or name calling. No American soldier wants to referred to as a Nazi, especially on the front lines.
Yes, going there sucks just as bad, probably even worse at times. But, people who enlist now a days, should enlist to fight for their country anyway. This involves where our congress votes for us to go.
When you are in a war, you have to be in it to win it. Nothing less. The name calling is horrible enough, and we need to win this war. Lets start it with, at minimal, support from the homefront and our nation's leaders!
I actually agree with you for the most part and I respect and appreciate our servicemen far more than my post may have implied. I may not have gotten the point across very well, but I was trying to emphasize "unnecessary" and "mismanaged."
I agree that if we're in a war, we have to try to win it. What's more damaging to that aim - political hyperbole at home or gross mismanagement of our military resources, trying to win the war cheaply instead of correctly, and boorish foreign policy?
What is more disrespectful and unappreciative to the sacrifices willingly made by those soldiers - to use them as political pawns in a verbal battle at home or to use them as political pawns in a real live-fire battle overseas (particularly in a war that didn't need to be fought in the first place) and then mismanage them once they're over there?
For me, I think that despite the claims of appreciation for our military (which I think are genuine), this administration's carelessness with those lives is a lot more disrespectful than any words could be.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 10:41:50 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
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I'm simply amazed that people who support the administration so fervently wouldn't be the least bit upset that the TSA is wasting time and resources stopping, searching and badgering 8 year old children and Brigadier Generals who have TSA issued licenses to carry guns in the cockpits of airplanes yet gets the same treatment that a suspected terrorist gets.
I guess that "feelings" trump all else even though many people "feel" that abortion is ok. Many people "feel" that homosexuality is fine, they "feel" that the government should do everything. Good to know that "feelings" own the day. :D
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 10:49:50 AM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
In October of 2001 85% of Americans believed it was "very/somewhat likely" that other terrorist attacks were immenent.
Not with GWB in charge
Since then liberals have:
- Literally worked for Saddam Hussein's defense team (Carter's attorney general)
- Exposed our spy programs.
- Tried to help terrorists by stopping our spy programs.
- Demanded OJ Simpson justice for our terrorists.
- Attacked our military and our military leaders (General Betrayus)
- Called our soldiers stupid (Kerry)
- Called our soldiers cold blooded murderers (Murtha)
- Compared our soldiers to Nazis (Durbin)
- Called our soldiers terrorists (Kerry)
When American defeats terrorism, how sad will liberals be?
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 12:46:15 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3985
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
You referring to Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or did you mean to lump them in one group.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 3:15:37 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
You referring to Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or did you mean to lump them in one group.
OK, I'll bite. I assume you will have more than empty rhetoric in bashing Bush or the other 2 here. ljmac gave a list and I can add to it on how the left are sympathetic to "freedom fighters" yet have no shame in bashing our troops. Even though many wanted to hold the government accountable for what happened on 9/11, the left want to neuter it and render it incapable of using any tools we have at our disposal to get information from suspected terrorists.
Maybe it would be better if more civilians died on our soil rather than have our trained soldiers fighting on foreign soil. Or it could be that the left want us to lose this war so the dems can retake the presidency and add supreme court appointees.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 3:51:29 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3985
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
You referring to Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or did you mean to lump them in one group.
OK, I'll bite. I assume you will have more than empty rhetoric in bashing Bush or the other 2 here. ljmac gave a list and I can add to it on how the left are sympathetic to "freedom fighters" yet have no shame in bashing our troops. Even though many wanted to hold the government accountable for what happened on 9/11, the left want to neuter it and render it incapable of using any tools we have at our disposal to get information from suspected terrorists.
Maybe it would be better if more civilians died on our soil rather than have our trained soldiers fighting on foreign soil. Or it could be that the left want us to lose this war so the dems can retake the presidency and add supreme court appointees.
I suppose it would be better to have more Americans killed over there than here. But that was Bin Laden's plan all along: to lure the west into a ground campaign on his turf. He saw how well it worked against the Russians. What he failed to account for was the US having learned from that and fought a better war in Afghanistan. But then, Bin Laden got a gift from the Bush administration by sending lots of targets to Iraq and taking the pressure off the Taliban. Yeah, those guys are geniuses, all right.
BTW, I don't condone the name-calling at any level.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 4:29:34 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
cow451
I suppose it would be better to have more Americans killed over there than here. But that was Bin Laden's plan all along: to lure the west into a ground campaign on his turf. He saw how well it worked against the Russians. What he failed to account for was the US having learned from that and fought a better war in Afghanistan. But then, Bin Laden got a gift from the Bush administration by sending lots of targets to Iraq and taking the pressure off the Taliban. Yeah, those guys are geniuses, all right.
BTW, I don't condone the name-calling at any level.
You missed one of my points. On 9/11 CIVILIANS were killed but in this war we have TRAINED SOLDIERS (in an all-volunteer military) who are doing battle with those who want to harm America and it's infidels.
Rather than sending our soldiers to Iraq we could have carpet-bombed the place and just let their living bury the dead. After their country was sent back a few centuries we could let them rebuild themselves instead of us doing that. My hunch is that many Americans would not like that idea either.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 8:33:08 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
iluvatar, i can't help but to disagree with you. as a former Marine, one of the biggest atrocities one could here is not the backing of those you are fighting for, or name calling. No American soldier wants to referred to as a Nazi, especially on the front lines.
Yes, going there sucks just as bad, probably even worse at times. But, people who enlist now a days, should enlist to fight for their country anyway. This involves where our congress votes for us to go.
When you are in a war, you have to be in it to win it. Nothing less. The name calling is horrible enough, and we need to win this war. Lets start it with, at minimal, support from the homefront and our nation's leaders!
God bless you for your service, huskarine. Considering the angry, sarcastic tone that the Bush haters always take when criticizing the leaders of the GWOT (despite the fact that they and their political leaders show no capacity, nor offer better ideas, for dealing with the monstrous evil of Islamic terror) I appreciate the respectful tone of your post. Very befitting of a marine. Semper Fi.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 9:23:46 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Rather than sending our soldiers to Iraq we could have carpet-bombed the place and just let their living bury the dead.
We didn't have to do either. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we got there. Bad intelligence and bogus propaganda was used to convince the American people that we had a duty to invade Iraq, when we didn't.
And to address cow's point:
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
You referring to Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or did you mean to lump them in one group.
By prematurely invading Iraq and mismanaging the situation once we got over there, that is exactly what this administration did - aided terrorists rather than supporting our troops.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/20/2008 11:25:30 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
You missed one of my points. On 9/11 CIVILIANS were killed but in this war we have TRAINED SOLDIERS (in an all-volunteer military) who are doing battle with those who want to harm America and it's infidels.
You forgot to add the part about the trained Iraqi women, children and elderly. The Iraqi professionals who gave their lives in the Mehdi slaughter and torture house they were well trained to I suppose.
So no other comments on Brigadier Generals who get TSA passes to fly civilian aircraft carrying guns when they are alleged terrorists?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 7:05:49 AM
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Rockwall
Posts: 432
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Rather than sending our soldiers to Iraq we could have carpet-bombed the place and just let their living bury the dead.
We didn't have to do either. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we got there. Bad intelligence and bogus propaganda was used to convince the American people that we had a duty to invade Iraq, when we didn't.
And to address cow's point:
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
It's a sad state of affairs whenever elected officials would rather aid and abet terrorists rather than support our own troops.
You referring to Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or did you mean to lump them in one group.
By prematurely invading Iraq and mismanaging the situation once we got over there, that is exactly what this administration did - aided terrorists rather than supporting our troops.
-Dan.
Hindsight is 20/20 and it is easy to play armchair president years after the fact. Intelligence from many countries stated that Iraq was a threat and Iraq ignored the demands of the impotent debate society (otherwise known as NATO). But if you disagree with attacking Iraq then you have President Clinton, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Madeline Albright, Al Gore and many others to blame.
Straight from the horses mouth: http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/clinton-kerry-gore-call-for-war-against-saddams-iraq/
More quoted statements: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 7:26:09 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
agreed, but be very cautious in how you judge those who are managing this war...they know way more than what can ever be said in the media (generally proving the existence of classified information  )...
not to mention, it is very hard to fight a politically correct war, which is why it is tougher than bombing the snot out of them (a la Iwo Jima or Tarawa)...
the thing is that i don't want the job of being a 4 star general, or even a commander in chief, so i am not going to criticize their conduct in the war...i will simply hold back, but of course, i won't restrict your opinion to do as such...just be cautious, that is all i am asking...
We've had close to eight years to assess His Excellency's performance. We've had five to assess the Iraq War. How much time does the guy get before we can exercise our First Amendment rights?
you missed the point i was making...
it's about what you don't know....and believe me, its a lot...
i wouldn't insult or condone any commander in chief or general without knowing all of the facts. to do anything else is just plain foolish, its why man wasn't supposed to judge in the garden...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 7:27:16 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
iluvatar, i can't help but to disagree with you. as a former Marine, one of the biggest atrocities one could here is not the backing of those you are fighting for, or name calling. No American soldier wants to referred to as a Nazi, especially on the front lines.
Yes, going there sucks just as bad, probably even worse at times. But, people who enlist now a days, should enlist to fight for their country anyway. This involves where our congress votes for us to go.
When you are in a war, you have to be in it to win it. Nothing less. The name calling is horrible enough, and we need to win this war. Lets start it with, at minimal, support from the homefront and our nation's leaders!
God bless you for your service, huskarine. Considering the angry, sarcastic tone that the Bush haters always take when criticizing the leaders of the GWOT (despite the fact that they and their political leaders show no capacity, nor offer better ideas, for dealing with the monstrous evil of Islamic terror) I appreciate the respectful tone of your post. Very befitting of a marine. Semper Fi.
made my day, so far...
always glad to have served (and still serving in a civilian capacity)...especially those who understand that freedom is never free...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 7:29:03 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
You missed one of my points. On 9/11 CIVILIANS were killed but in this war we have TRAINED SOLDIERS (in an all-volunteer military) who are doing battle with those who want to harm America and it's infidels.
You forgot to add the part about the trained Iraqi women, children and elderly. The Iraqi professionals who gave their lives in the Mehdi slaughter and torture house they were well trained to I suppose.
So no other comments on Brigadier Generals who get TSA passes to fly civilian aircraft carrying guns when they are alleged terrorists?
the only thing left at this point is why was he on the list in the first place??? before i get upset, i, minimally, need that question answered...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 9:45:05 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3985
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
i wouldn't insult or condone any commander in chief or general without knowing all of the facts. to do anything else is just plain foolish, its why man wasn't supposed to judge in the garden...
That scripture wasn't referring to the Rose Garden. And, failing to have a debate about policy and have the President be accountable is condoning. In this age, very little can be kept secret very long. As more information emerges, it-- with rare exception-- runs counter to the line put out by His Excellency.
I initially supported the Iraq War, not because the case was convincing, but because I assumed there was more information that His Excellency knew that could not be released. As it has turned out the other way around, I changed my stance accordingly.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 10:01:54 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
the only thing left at this point is why was he on the list in the first place??? before i get upset, i, minimally, need that question answered...
Which list? The one that says he can carry a loaded weapon in the cockpit or the one that implies he is an alleged terrorist?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 10:56:59 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
the only thing left at this point is why was he on the list in the first place??? before i get upset, i, minimally, need that question answered...
Which list? The one that says he can carry a loaded weapon in the cockpit or the one that implies he is an alleged terrorist?
the latter...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 11:06:17 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2179
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
the latter...
In all honesty I really don't know what gets you on that list exactly. If you are suspected of being a terrorist to a typo and some say political retribution can get you on it. As for getting off of it I have no idea. : /
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: I feel much safer now! - 8/21/2008 11:06:23 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
i wouldn't insult or condone any commander in chief or general without knowing all of the facts. to do anything else is just plain foolish, its why man wasn't supposed to judge in the garden...
That scripture wasn't referring to the Rose Garden. And, failing to have a debate about policy and have the President be accountable is condoning. In this age, very little can be kept secret very long. As more information emerges, it-- with rare exception-- runs counter to the line put out by His Excellency.
I initially supported the Iraq War, not because the case was convincing, but because I assumed there was more information that His Excellency knew that could not be released. As it has turned out the other way around, I changed my stance accordingly.
but see, that's the problem...there is still information out there that can not be released...it's classified, away from the media, where it needs to be...thus, the public like you and me won't see it. we don't know and will not know the right side of this debate, therefore, it is just wiser to pass judgement.
believe me. i have worked with classified info. and know enough on this war to know that we are the good guys...
"In this age, very little can be kept secret very long. As more information emerges, it-- with rare exception-- runs counter to the line put out by His Excellency."
-you are wrong about this based on the very existence of classified info. and did it ever occur to you that the info pushed out, BY THE LIBERAL MEDIA, will of course go against our President???
remember, for the media, it is always publish or perish...they have to slam to keep their jobs.
also, when mentioning the Garden, i meant Eden. man was not created to judge...otherwise, God would have introduced us to the tree, and fed us from it...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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