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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 4:38:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
She's also against condoms — in Africa. She's raising money for more billboards in Tanzania with the message: "Faithful condom users die."
The links worked fine for me.
If a person wants to be vigorously pro-life, fine. But this latter position is borderline insane considering the frequency of AIDS in Africa, in addition to reducing unwanted pregnancies.
What is the mindset of a person who believes it's ok to murder the unborn?
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 4:51:15 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
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From: The North Woods
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What are you talking about?
In the above post, I'm addressing condom distribution in Africa, not abortion.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:03:21 PM
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mrsrevbob
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Radical Pro Lifer, wow. Now that can be a problem.
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:09:50 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
Radical Pro Lifer, wow. Now that can be a problem.
I would define one as a person who--in addition to wanting to ban abortion in all circumstances, regardless of the mother's life or health, rape or incest--also rejects all forms of birth control as immoral.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:16:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
What are you talking about?
In the above post, I'm addressing condom distribution in Africa, not abortion.
You spoke of the mindset of one is who is beyond vigorously pro-life... I asked about the mindset of those on the other side of the coin, for instance, Mr. Obama...
Is that clear enough?
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:18:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Radical Pro Lifer, wow. Now that can be a problem.
I would define one as a person who--in addition to wanting to ban abortion in all circumstances, regardless of the mother's life or health, rape or incest--also rejects all forms of birth control as immoral.
What is the problem with one who see that the child of rape doesn't warrant the death penalty for the actions of the father? It's really an ironic stance when you consider that a lot these people wouldn't even consider putting the rapist to death for his action... Sad...
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:26:46 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
I asked about the mindset of those on the other side of the coin, for instance, Mr. Obama...
Well, in a pure, ultra-extremist definition, I suppose one who is vigorously pro-abortion would want every fetus on earth to be terminated.
Why? Is that the kind of person you think Obama is?
That he's a Mengele-like Nazi who delights in the thought of dead children piled up, and plowed into huge ovens? Or that on Video Night at his home, he watches video smuggled out of North Korean prison camps of pregnant women being bayonneted and mauled by guard dogs? Or even better, that Obama dreams of strangling neighborhood kids in their sleep?
Is that your "vigorous" definition of the guy?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 5:28:36 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
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quote:
What is the problem with one who see that the child of rape doesn't warrant the death penalty for the actions of the father?
Perhaps you might have a different viewpoint if you were the one on the recieving end of the rape.
Plus, does your position apply to, say, a 12 year-old girl raped and impregnanted by her father or uncle?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 6:19:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
I asked about the mindset of those on the other side of the coin, for instance, Mr. Obama...
Well, in a pure, ultra-extremist definition, I suppose one who is vigorously pro-abortion would want every fetus on earth to be terminated.
Why? Is that the kind of person you think Obama is?
That he's a Mengele-like Nazi who delights in the thought of dead children piled up, and plowed into huge ovens? Or that on Video Night at his home, he watches video smuggled out of North Korean prison camps of pregnant women being bayonneted and mauled by guard dogs? Or even better, that Obama dreams of strangling neighborhood kids in their sleep?
Is that your "vigorous" definition of the guy?
He doesn't take issue with the 3500 unborn children murdered daily in the United States.. Where does that rate him? Given the numbers he's pretty close to the Mengele-like Nazi, right?
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 6:22:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Perhaps you might have a different viewpoint if you were the one on the recieving end of the rape.
I have been raped... So what else you have... You have biblical support for putting the child to death for the actions of the father? Do you even have a reasonable secular argument?
quote:
Plus, does your position apply to, say, a 12 year-old girl raped and impregnanted by her father or uncle?
The bible doesn't grant the right to murder the child because of the actions of the father... So how can my position change?
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 6:44:34 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
I have been raped
Can you get pregnant?
quote:
He doesn't take issue with the 3500 unborn children murdered daily in the United States.. Where does that rate him? Given the numbers he's pretty close to the Mengele-like Nazi, right?
So if 3500 women get abortions each day in America, how is Barack Obama responsible for each making arrangements with their abortion provider, getting in their car, driving to the facility, checking in, getting undressed, undergoing the procedure, going into recovery, and leaving with an Rx for pain medication?
How does Obama make that happen? I'm intrigued.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 6:58:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Can you get pregnant?
No... Of course I must ask how does that change what is right and wrong...
Do you have biblical support for putting to death the child of rape? Anyone?
quote:
So if 3500 women get abortions each day in America,
If? The subtle denial regarding the abortion issue is interesting...
quote:
how is Barack Obama responsible for each making arrangements with their abortion provider, getting in their car, driving to the facility, checking in, getting undressed, undergoing the procedure, going into recovery, and leaving with an Rx for pain medication?
How does Obama make that happen? I'm intrigued.
From a position of(God ordained) authority he supports the <cough> right for one to murder an unborn child... The bible speaks of such action from one in such a potion as an abomination...
I am intrigued to how you will make his support of this OK... Other than an attempt to keep the matter in the secular realm.
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 8/20/2008 7:04:14 PM >
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:00:04 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
What is the problem with one who see that the child of rape doesn't warrant the death penalty for the actions of the father?
Perhaps you might have a different viewpoint if you were the one on the recieving end of the rape.
Plus, does your position apply to, say, a 12 year-old girl raped and impregnanted by her father or uncle?
How does killing the unborn child undo the rape or incest? Does adding a death to a rape somehow make the situation better? Is a 12 year old girl somehow better able to deal with the trauma of incest due to a medical procedure that ends the life of her baby? Are we saying abortion is therapeutic?
Honestly, when did having an abortion, the actual termination of a child, become the ultimate expression of womanhood? Women fight for abortion rights like they fight for no other issue on Earth.
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Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:03:53 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
What is the problem with one who see that the child of rape doesn't warrant the death penalty for the actions of the father?
Perhaps you might have a different viewpoint if you were the one on the recieving end of the rape.
Plus, does your position apply to, say, a 12 year-old girl raped and impregnanted by her father or uncle?
How does killing the unborn child undo the rape or incest? Does adding a death to a rape somehow make the situation better? Is a 12 year old girl somehow better able to deal with the trauma of incest due to a medical procedure that ends the life of her baby? Are we saying abortion is therapeutic?
Honestly, when did having an abortion, the actual termination of a child, become the ultimate expression of womanhood? Women fight for abortion rights like they fight for no other issue on Earth.
It's rooted in man's desire to be like a god... Power and control... Nothing has changed since the Garden...
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:14:38 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
Do you have biblical support for putting to death the child of rape? Anyone?
My opinion on abortion has nothing to do with the Bible. I do not consider it.
quote:
Honestly, when did having an abortion, the actual termination of a child, become the ultimate expression of womanhood? Women fight for abortion rights like they fight for no other issue on Earth.
It has to do with women's objection to a state power implying control over their bodies as if it were property.
I imagine that if McCain is elected, Roe will be overturned one day, which will kick the matter back to the states.
However, as a result, I suspect Republicans pay the price at the ballot box, especially if they foolishly assume that only liberal women back basic abortion rights.
In an interview not too long ago, GW Bush was asked how a vote to overturn Roe would go in his immediate family. He answered that he'd likely lose 3-1; 4-1 if his mother were allowed to vote.
This is the nest of political vipers that Republicans, and their supporters will stir up if Roe goes the way of the Volstad Act.
I guarantee it.
< Message edited by todd_t -- 8/20/2008 7:23:02 PM >
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:32:16 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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From: The Great Sioux Empire
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quote:
This is the nest of political vipers that Republicans, and their supporters will stir up if Roe goes the way of the Volstad Act.
Well, these consequences should, then, make you giddy at the prospect. One would assume you'd be manning a phone bank for McCain to help along the demise of the GOP.
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Molon Labe
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:33:47 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
Well, these consequences should, then, make you giddy at the prospect.
Actually, no, which is why I want Roe preserved. Undoing it will cause nothing but political chaos, and divide the nation along even starker cultural and political lines.
quote:
One would assume you'd be manning a phone bank for McCain to help along the demise of the GOP.
The GOP is perfectly capable of imploding without my help.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:34:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
My opinion on abortion has nothing to do with the Bible. I do not consider it.
Fair enough....
I guess that answers why you couldn't defend Mr. Obama's actions...
quote:
It has to do with women's objection to a state power implying control over their bodies as if it were property.
That is what the state does when it intervenes regarding the rights of the unborn? You are correct, your view has nothing to do with the bible...
quote:
I imagine that if McCain is elected, Roe will be overturned one day, which will kick the matter back to the states.
Doubtful....
quote:
However, as a result, I suspect Republicans pay the price at the ballot box, especially if they foolishly assume that only liberal women back basic abortion rights.
In an interview not too long ago, GW Bush was asked how a vote to overturn Roe would go in his immediate family. He answered that he'd likely lose 3-1; 4-1 if his mother were allowed to vote.
This is the nest of political vipers that Republicans, and their supporters will stir up if Roe goes the way of the Volstad Act.
I guarantee it.
Hopefully... Be nice to weed out those who support evil from the party...
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:42:55 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
I guess that answers why you couldn't defend Mr. Obama's actions...
Oh, I can defend his actions perfectly. It just won't have a lot to do with scripture (in this case).
quote:
I imagine that if McCain is elected, Roe will be overturned one day, which will kick the matter back to the states.
quote:
Doubtful....
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_would_happen_if_the_supreme_court.html
quote:
In an interview not too long ago, GW Bush was asked how a vote to overturn Roe would go in his immediate family. He answered that he'd likely lose 3-1; 4-1 if his mother were allowed to vote. This is the nest of political vipers that Republicans, and their supporters will stir up if Roe goes the way of the Volstad Act. I guarantee it.
quote:
Hopefully... Be nice to weed out those who support evil from the party...
So those "evil" folks include Mr. Bush's wife, daughters, and mother? Does the name "John Hathorne" mean anything to you?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 7:56:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Oh, I can defend his actions perfectly. It just won't have a lot to do with scripture (in this case).
You can defend his actions "perfectly" apart from the Word of God... How funny!
Actually I'd like to see what you have scripture wise...
quote:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_would_happen_if_the_supreme_court.html
Given McCain's lukewarm support you have nothing to worry about...
quote:
So those "evil" folks include Mr. Bush's wife, daughters, and mother?
Sure... A spade is a spade... I don't care if they are Republican or claim to be a Christian...
quote:
Does the name "John Hathorne" mean anything to you?
Nope... People who support abortion evil... This isn't about people not floating or cats liking them too much...
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 8:34:57 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
She's also against condoms — in Africa. She's raising money for more billboards in Tanzania with the message: "Faithful condom users die."
The links worked fine for me.
If a person wants to be vigorously pro-life, fine. But this latter position is borderline insane considering the frequency of AIDS in Africa, in addition to reducing unwanted pregnancies.
What is the mindset of a person who believes it's ok to murder the unborn?
John
So, you believe contraception is murder do you?
I think I now understand your agenda -
quote:
It's rooted in man's desire to be like a god... Power and control... Nothing has changed since the Garden...
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 8:39:36 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Given McCain's lukewarm support you have nothing to worry about...
No, sir.
McCain will win in November (although whether he'll serve two terms is another matter), and place a conservative judge (or two) on the SC after Ginsberg and Stevens retire.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 11:09:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
So, you believe contraception is murder do you?
I don't recall posting that? Do you hear voices as well?
quote:
I think I now understand your agenda -
What did the little voices tell you?
Can you ask them about the mindset of those who think it's ok to murder the unborn?
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 11:11:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Given McCain's lukewarm support you have nothing to worry about...
No, sir.
McCain will win in November (although whether he'll serve two terms is another matter), and place a conservative judge (or two) on the SC after Ginsberg and Stevens retire.
I would like to believe that but I don't share your fears... Don't worry abortion will still be the law of the land even if McCain wins... Sadly I believe it will be the law of the land till Christ returns...
John
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