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Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 4:26:28 AM
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SILVERNAME
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Records document opposition to protecting born-alive babies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 16, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Sen. Barack Obama is more dedicated to abortion at any time for any reason than even the National Abortion Rights Action League, according to documents unveiled by the National Right to Life Committee and publicized by WND columnist Jill Stanek, who also blogs at JillStanek.com.
"He actually did vote on March 13, 2003, in the Senate Health and Human Services Committee to approve the Illinois Born Alive Act, which was the same as the federal law. Then he voted it down," Stanek said. "He is the most pro-abortion senator. … Even NARAL went neutral [on the federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act]."
The Born Alive Infant Protection acts on the state and federal levels provide that infants who do survive abortions should be given necessary medical care and treatment. Stanek has been working to institute such provisions since, as a nurse, she discovered an abortion-surviving infant alive, but relegated to a closet shelf where the child was left to die.
Obama's long reputation for abortion advocacy has been a red flag in his intense efforts to collect support from voters who oppose the idea of partial-birth abortions, which Obama has supported, and who want to protect survivors of abortion procedures. He's often said, and his own website repeats, that he would have supported the Illinois state law protecting those born-alive infants if it had had a "neutrality" clause like the federal law, which states the law specifically is not intended to impact the status of babies before birth.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72511
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 7:23:22 AM
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saved9201
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Oh great. Here's something new. An abortion thread.
- Julius
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 7:45:59 AM
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huangshan
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I dunno, it seems a lot like the "Democratic presidential candidate is the most liberal Democrat EVER" stuff that gets trotted out every election year.
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 8:58:41 AM
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rcjames
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Just supports what I have felt about B. Hussein Obama for a while now. NIce of you libe to jump right in there to try divert and defend the indefensable.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 9:04:23 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Oh great. Here's something new. An abortion thread.
- Julius
Such evil can only thrive only when good people refuse to confront it. Let's just sweep it under the rug. Slavery persisted for this very reason. So too did Stalin's butchery and Hitler's death camps.
In fact, Obama did try to stop legislation to protect children who accidentally survived abortion. How ill is America that such a nasty man could be possibly be president?
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 9:18:00 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 712
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Just supports what I have felt about B. Hussein Obama for a while now. NIce of you libe to jump right in there to try divert and defend the indefensable.
Thanks
RC
I don't know RC, I think we need just a little more proof that B. Hussein O. is a pro-abortion liberal democrat. I think the jury's still out. Some staunch pro-life republicans still may be leaning toward this guy. Anyone else want to opine on this subject? I suggest the World Net Daily as one of the most reliable, comprehensive guides on B. Hussein O's stand on this and other issues. After all, after 1,495,643 posts, non-stop coverage on both right and left leaning media outlets, and a best-selling book that supposedly exposes the real B. Hussein O, we still don't know this guy.
-Julius
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 10:08:33 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
I don't know RC, I think we need just a little more proof that B. Hussein O. is a pro-abortion liberal democrat. I think the jury's still out. Some staunch pro-life republicans still may be leaning toward this guy. Anyone else want to opine on this subject? I suggest the World Net Daily as one of the most reliable, comprehensive guides on B. Hussein O's stand on this and other issues. After all, after 1,495,643 posts, non-stop coverage on both right and left leaning media outlets, and a best-selling book that supposedly exposes the real B. Hussein O, we still don't know this guy.
-Julius
In all honesty, I do not know the guy, he seems to be whatever his handlers want him to be on any given day.
What record we have is scary (to this ole boy anyway) to the max.
So I waith on baited breath for the real B. Hussein Obama to pelase stand up.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 11:35:08 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 712
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
In all honesty, I do not know the guy, he seems to be whatever his handlers want him to be on any given day.
What record we have is scary (to this ole boy anyway) to the max.
So I waith on baited breath for the real B. Hussein Obama to pelase stand up.
Thanks
RC
Sounds like you know him pretty well. I think we ALL know him well enough to make an informed decision. Even if he were to change overnight and become all we would want any political candidate to be on the issues near and dear to us, would we accept the change as genuine? Probably not.
Now the question is, do we REALLY know John McCain? Does his highly touted superior "experience" include experience at playing the political game and duping his constituents?
- Julius
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 1:26:57 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Sounds like you know him pretty well. I think we ALL know him well enough to make an informed decision. Even if he were to change overnight and become all we would want any political candidate to be on the issues near and dear to us, would we accept the change as genuine? Probably not.
Now the question is, do we REALLY know John McCain? Does his highly touted superior "experience" include experience at playing the political game and duping his constituents?
- Julius
Well Julius with McCain we do have a long voting and actrion record to examine. Like it or lump it we can see what we are going to get.
With B. Hussein Obama we just have the projection of the day. And we had best not look at all his liberal (socialist, terrorist,) connections in ;his past are we are being a bunch of racist biggots.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/16/2008 11:39:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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I find it strange that Christians are upset that a such grievous sin that accounts for the death of 3500 unborn children daily is mentioned time and again... Should it be swept under the rug? Maybe it doesn't go away because there is something very wrong that people who speak of the love of Christ can voice support for the murder of the unborn in the very next breath...
John
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/18/2008 4:53:13 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SILVERNAME
Records document opposition to protecting born-alive babies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 16, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Sen. Barack Obama is more dedicated to abortion at any time for any reason than even the National Abortion Rights Action League, according to documents unveiled by the National Right to Life Committee and publicized by WND columnist Jill Stanek, who also blogs at JillStanek.com.
"He actually did vote on March 13, 2003, in the Senate Health and Human Services Committee to approve the Illinois Born Alive Act, which was the same as the federal law. Then he voted it down," Stanek said. "He is the most pro-abortion senator. … Even NARAL went neutral [on the federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act]."
The Born Alive Infant Protection acts on the state and federal levels provide that infants who do survive abortions should be given necessary medical care and treatment. Stanek has been working to institute such provisions since, as a nurse, she discovered an abortion-surviving infant alive, but relegated to a closet shelf where the child was left to die.
Obama's long reputation for abortion advocacy has been a red flag in his intense efforts to collect support from voters who oppose the idea of partial-birth abortions, which Obama has supported, and who want to protect survivors of abortion procedures. He's often said, and his own website repeats, that he would have supported the Illinois state law protecting those born-alive infants if it had had a "neutrality" clause like the federal law, which states the law specifically is not intended to impact the status of babies before birth.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72511
Sorry, SIlvername, but I saw you - or at least, the WND fast-and-loosers you are choosing to channel - palm that card.
I happen to be a citizen of Illinois, and followed that debate and vote in the Illinois Senate. Obama did NOT vote against the final bill because it guaranteed medical care for abortion survivers.
He voted against it because
A) in its final form, it exactly parelled existing Federal law (Public Law 107-207 Title 1 Chapter 1 Section 8) and was thus redundant, AND
B) in its final form, provided a protection for born-alive infants already fully provided for under existing existing Illinois state law, and thus was redundant to existing Illinois state law as well as to Fderal, as described above.
You might ask yourself - indeed, you might try to investigate the matter yourself - WHY a bill is introduced which repeats already-existing Federal and State law on the matter. WHO introduced the bill in the Illinois Senate - and take a wild guess as to WHY.
Does the term "political posturing" mean anything to you? How about "grandstanding"?
< Message edited by SwedishCovenant -- 8/18/2008 5:08:58 PM >
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/18/2008 5:08:45 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7785
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There is a good overview of this issue from this New York Sun article. A relevant excerpt:
The dispute flared again last week when a leading opponent of legalized abortion, the National Right to Life Committee, posted records from the Illinois Legislature showing that Mr. Obama, while chairman of a Senate committee, in 2003, voted against a "Born Alive" bill that contained nearly identical language to the federal bill that passed unanimously, including the provision limiting its scope.
The group says the documents prove Mr. Obama misrepresented his record.
Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported "was not the bill that was presented at the state level."
His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate, and a spokesman, Hari Sevugan, said the senator and other lawmakers had concerns that even as worded, the legislation could have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. Those concerns did not exist for the federal bill, because there is no federal abortion law.
In 2005, the campaign noted, a "Born Alive" bill passed the Illinois Legislature after another clause had been added that explicitly stated that the legislation would have no effect on existing state abortion laws.
Told of the campaign's explanation, the legislative director of the National Right to Life Committee, Douglas Johnson, was dubious. "These are newly manufactured and highly implausible excuses," he said. "There is no way that the bill would have had any effect on any method of abortion." Mr. Johnson said the version Mr. Obama voted down clearly applied only to fetuses that emerged from the womb alive.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/19/2008 5:06:30 PM
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todd_t
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Sorry for the redundancy, but the above "controversy" over Obama's vote on the state "Born Alive" measure becomes moot when one realizes that when the law came up for a vote, Illinois statutes were already in place that required infants born from botched abortions to recieve immediate medical attention.
No abortion shall be performed or induced when the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. Subsequent to the abortion, if a child is born alive, the physician required to be in attendance shall exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion. Violation of these statutes constituted a Class 3 felony.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072005100K6.htm
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/19/2008 5:10:46 PM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Sorry for the redundancy, but the above "controversy" over Obama's vote on the state "Born Alive" measure becomes moot when one realizes that when the law came up for a vote, Illinois statutes were already in place that required infants born from botched abortions to recieve immediate medical attention.
No abortion shall be performed or induced when the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. Subsequent to the abortion, if a child is born alive, the physician required to be in attendance shall exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion. Violation of these statutes constituted a Class 3 felony.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072005100K6.htm
Which will not stop the Obama-bashers from flogging this non-issue as if they've got something.
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/19/2008 5:21:25 PM
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todd_t
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It's just a question of doing one's homework, not bashing.
In this case, I went to Obama's campaign website, which forwarded me to the Illinois state government link above describing the prior statute.
After reading it, I'm skeptical as to Jill Stenek's trustworthiness on this whole matter.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 9:10:49 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
It's just a question of doing one's homework, not bashing.
In this case, I went to Obama's campaign website, which forwarded me to the Illinois state government link above describing the prior statute.
After reading it, I'm skeptical as to Jill Stenek's trustworthiness on this whole matter.
She does seem to have made a cottage industry out of publicizing her completely unsubstantiated charges.
SARCASM LAMP LIT
Gee, I wonder who is footing the bill for her?
SARCASM LAMP OFF
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 9:22:15 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
After reading it, I'm skeptical as to Jill Stenek's trustworthiness on this whole matter.
Of course, because if anyone other than a Democrat or a liberal says it, it must be dishonest, and/or questionable...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 9:49:43 AM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
Of course, because if anyone other than a Democrat or a liberal says it, it must be dishonest, and/or questionable...
Honesty has nothing to do with partisanship, it has to do with one's due dilligence.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 10:05:39 AM
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tafkam
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Then why are you so immediately skeptical of Jill Stenik's testimony?
How about this, I personally know a woman who was director of an Atlanta based abortion mill before becoming a Christian. And she also testified to babies surviving abortions and either being strangled outside the womb, or left to die of neglect. Is an abortion clinic director a suitable witness for you? Or are you skeptical of her as well (for whatever nebulous reason you care to identify)?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 11:50:10 AM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
How about this, I personally know a woman who was director of an Atlanta based abortion mill before becoming a Christian. And she also testified to babies surviving abortions and either being strangled outside the womb, or left to die of neglect. Is an abortion clinic director a suitable witness for you? Or are you skeptical of her as well (for whatever nebulous reason you care to identify)? quote:
Then why are you so immediately skeptical of Jill Stenik's testimony?
Because it reflects a lack of knowledge on existing IL statutes on abortion.
quote:
How about this, I personally know a woman who was director of an Atlanta based abortion mill before becoming a Christian. And she also testified to babies surviving abortions and either being strangled outside the womb, or left to die of neglect. Is an abortion clinic director a suitable witness for you? Or are you skeptical of her as well (for whatever nebulous reason you care to identify)?
So you're saying that in a state as conservative as Georgia, there's no existing law barring this procedure?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 12:10:55 PM
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tafkam
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I honestly don't know...but why would we expect anyone who makes a living murdering other human beings to care that much about what the law says in other cases?
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Tafkam
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 2:07:16 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Then why are you so immediately skeptical of Jill Stenik's testimony?
Obama's pro-life critic
quote:
The notion that this fight is actually about killing live babies, rather than regulating abortion, seems a bit absurd; however, the website of the Illinois activist who championed the legislation, Jill Stanek, bears that out.
It turns out she doesn't just oppose child-murder. Or late-term abortion. Or abortion. She's also against condoms — in Africa. She's raising money for more billboards in Tanzania with the message: "Faithful condom users die."
The lady's trolley has left the tracks.
(nice picture of the billboard on the link)
Also, I would call it a pregnancy with the implantation of the fertilized ovum.
Not this lady -
Jill Stanek
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 2:48:26 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
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The links don't work...
And yeah, I guess somebody who believes babies should be allowed that pesky right to live is a certifiable kook....such is the mind of the left...
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama abortion support exceeds even NARAL's - 8/20/2008 4:05:23 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
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quote:
She's also against condoms — in Africa. She's raising money for more billboards in Tanzania with the message: "Faithful condom users die."
The links worked fine for me.
If a person wants to be vigorously pro-life, fine. But this latter position is borderline insane considering the frequency of AIDS in Africa, in addition to reducing unwanted pregnancies.
Also, Stanek's stance against birth control pills seems pretty extreme too, albiet she does refer to herself as a "radical pro-lifer."
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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