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4ChristisLove -> Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 2:12:29 PM)

I could use some help. I have a friend who has said or emailed some things that have my stomache turning. I thought before trying to reply to her I would get some advice on just how to reply to her. I'm afraid that I will come across as being judgmental of her views. I want to have a solid, blibical and truthful answer in reply. Thanks in advance for the advice.

This is what she wrote:

Not to start a debate or anything like that...I promise...and I have been so interested on reading your posts about the book of Revelation..and yes, it is a scary thing, but here are my thoughts....

1) THere are many times where I feel like we are given "signs" of the end of times. Meaning, the hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. (Did you know that there is a HUGE increase of people being struck by lightening?) A part of me thinks that God won't have to end the world, b/c we're doing it just fine by ourselves (pollution, etc...)

2) I don't believe that the Holy Spirit will ever stop knocking. That's something that makes the Holy Trinity so much better than we are. Someone can turn us away time and time again, and pending on the person (meaning if it's your child, parent, friend) you'll never give up. Therefore, I really don't think the HOly Spirit would ever give up trying to get anyone to realize the truth. Then, the Holy Spirit wouldn't be better than humans.

3) I honestly believe that b/c our God is so great, so loving, so forgiving, that when it comes to our own judgment day, He will not only look at our life on earth, but will truly look into our hearts. I can't believe that those who don't believe in God will not go to Heaven. For the most part, we are born into religion. I was born into a Catholic family, others were born into Baptist families, Jewish families, etc... and then some are born into families w/o faith. Our God is a fair God, and I think when the day comes, God will reveal the truth and then it will be up to the individual to "see the light" or reject him. I think of all the times that I have "rejected" God or questioned Him (I think this is completely normal...when my mother was diagnosed w/ cancer, I even made "deals" with God--though I know He doesn't really make "deals", and when my brother almost died and I was SO angry) I don't think God is going to hold that against me. Afterall, I am human...made in his likeness. B/c I'm human, I make mistakes.

I guess I don't worry too much when it comes to faith and beliefs. I remember awhile back we were talking about Jesus having a brother. That's something that I don't believe in (and I'm sure it's b/c I wasn't taught that and it's not something that is taught in the Catholic faith). But, I think, "you know what, God will tell me when I meet Him." I've even tried reminding myself, "When I die, I need to be sure to ask God about this or that." I'm going to continue doing what I believe is good and right and follow His example. There are going to be times where I'll question Him, and times that I may reject Him. But I really don't believe that he will cast me to hell if at the time of my death, I'm struggling with my faith. I think on judgment day He will reveal the truth and then it will be up to me to decide whether to believe or not believe. Does that make sense?



WesP -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 2:26:57 PM)

There are 2 MAJOR doctrinal problems presented here. First, no one comes to the Father except through Christ. This disqualifies adherents to false religions quite quickly. God is very fair. He is perfect; we are not; we cannot enter heaven without being cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. There is no Lamb in other religions. There is no universal salvation.

Second, our lives are a reflection of our beliefs. Definitely, God knows our hearts, but the bible speaks volumes about fruit of the spirit. The equates to living a life that is in service to Him. It is not about works for salvation, but about works that reflect our true faith.

Present the truth with love and compassion. If you do not present it at all, you are allowing this person to believe things that can send her to hell.



4ChristisLove -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 3:46:24 PM)

Thanks so much Wes. You are SO right. I just have a hard time understanding how someone can believe this way, but I guess they just don't know the truth. So it's up to me to share it.

Do you know if this is a common belief in the Catholic church?



WesP -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 3:55:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove

Thanks so much Wes. You are SO right. I just have a hard time understanding how someone can believe this way, but I guess they just don't know the truth. So it's up to me to share it.

Do you know if this is a common belief in the Catholic church?


The only obvious Catholic belief expressed in her words is the belief that Jesus had no siblings.



4ChristisLove -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 4:08:26 PM)

thanks. :)



drmark -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/14/2008 4:12:06 PM)

quote:

Do you know if this is a common belief in the Catholic church?
I don't know much about common beliefs in the RCC, but I certainly see tons of post-modern young adults who just love to rationalize that a good God would never send anyone to Hell for making a few "mistakes". Unfortunately for them, God's Word tells the truth as you have said, 4CiL.



Theophile2 -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/15/2008 9:07:15 PM)

Lord Jesus we thank you for the plans you have for your creation, and we praise you for you are the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace. We ask Lord Jesus that you give 4ChristisLove's friend eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to receive your Gospel truth. We ask these petitions based on the promises of your Holy Word, that they be done in the power of your Holy Spirit, in your good will and timing, and to the Glory of your Kingdom. In Jesus name ... amen.

[sm=praying.gif]

quote:

we are born into religion.


Jn 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (13) who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jn 6:63, 65 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ... (65) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (cf. Jn 6:44)

Joh 8:33-47 They answered him, "We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, 'You will become free'?" (34) Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. (35) The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. (36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (37) I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. (38) I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father." (39) They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, (40) but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. (41) You are doing what your father did." They said to him, "We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father--even God." (42) Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. (43) Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. (44) You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (45) But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. (46) Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? (47) Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."

quote:

I'm going to continue doing what I believe is good and right


Jdg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his eyes.

Deu 12:8 You shall not do according to all that we do here today, each doing whatever is right in his own eyes.

Num 15:39-40 And it shall be to you for a fringe, that you may look on it and remember all the commandments of Jehovah, and do them; and that you do not go about after your own heart and your own eyes after which you fornicate; (40) that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy to your God.

quote:

I think on judgment day He will reveal the truth and then it will be up to me to decide whether to believe or not believe.


Mat 24:48-51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delays His coming, (49) and shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, (50) the Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not look for Him, and in an hour which he does not know. (51) And He shall cut him apart and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:41-46 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. (42) For I was hungry, and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave Me no drink; (43) I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; I was naked, and you did not clothe Me; I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me. (44) Then they will also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You? (45) Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. (46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

quote:

I can't believe that those who don't believe in God will not go to Heaven.


Pro 18:2 A fool has no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may lay itself bare.

Pro 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool; but whoever walks wisely, he shall be delivered.

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



cow451 -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/18/2008 1:06:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove

1) THere are many times where I feel like we are given "signs" of the end of times. Meaning, the hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. (Did you know that there is a HUGE increase of people being struck by lightening?) A part of me thinks that God won't have to end the world, b/c we're doing it just fine by ourselves (pollution, etc...)



Where does the lightning "data" come from?

[i]Are lightning deaths on the increase?In the United States, lightning deaths per million citizens have declined some 70% since the 1950s, although the number of serious injuries has only dropped slightly. This is probably the result of several factors, including widespread CPR training which can revive lightning victims.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/19/2008 5:59:03 AM)

Honestly, I'm shaking my head on this one... There is a lot I would like to say and much of it is stuff I would only say if I wasn't trying to be nice. The three points listed have their specific problems... for the sake of clarity I will give an answer to each one, and then try to give a quick summary of what I would if I was trying to be nice about it.

1) We are given huge signs of the end times. That is the beauty of the mercy of God. All the disasters strike, shaking our world off its foundations (temporarily) so that we will see just how fragile it is and (hopefully) turn to God. The book of Revelation is very clear that God will destroy the earth and the wicked ones who live on it. So whether or not He "needs" to is quite irrelevant... because He is going to.

2) There is a time at which we become so happy with our sin that God lets us go our way to destruction (Romans 1). It breaks His heart (Isaiah 39), but He will let us if we force the issue. God is perfect, holy, and just... it also says that He gives us the desires of our heart. If your desire is for yourself and your sin, you are going to get it... and you will be miserable with it.

3) The Bible is once again very clear... Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. However, it is also very clear that He will divide the "sheep from the goats" in that day. Jesus Himself said that not only would there be people who had no idea why they were going to Hell (the Sheep and Goats tale), but that there would also be "good people" going to Hell (hence the whole "Lord, did we not..." thing. Oh, and the whole "not everyone who says to me on that day 'lord, lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven"). I believe it was the movie Kingdom of Heaven that said it best... "A lord may move a pawn, a king may move a man. But on that day you cannot say 'others told me thus', or that righteousness was not convenient at the time. Your soul in your keeping alone."

As for this...
quote:

I'm going to continue doing what I believe is good and right and follow His example. There are going to be times where I'll question Him, and times that I may reject Him. But I really don't believe that he will cast me to hell if at the time of my death, I'm struggling with my faith. I think on judgment day He will reveal the truth and then it will be up to me to decide whether to believe or not believe.
It is all predicated on (A) having a belief to begin with, and (B) that God allows for the game to be won in "overtime"... which you won't find in the Bible. The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is the best example. Basically, this is post-modernism with a religious name on it.

Were I trying to be nice to the person that wrote it, I would probably say something of this nature...
quote:

I understand your position, but I honestly can't see what you are basing it on. From what I see in the Bible, Jesus said that He was the only way (John 14). If it is true that those who 'don't know better' are given an opportunity to convert after death, evangelism does the world a grave disservice.

It's very true that if you repent, God holds nothing against you. However, in His all-encompassing love and compassion, He is also perfectly just. Because of this, there are only two outcomes for things that we know are wrong... either we repent and are forgiven, or we suffer consequences for them. There honestly is no third option. As for Judgement Day, the book of Revelation says specifically that all will stand before Him, and He will judge them. Nowhere does it say that there will be a negotiation period or offers of clemency. On Judgement day, you are presented and you are judged (Rev 20).
I also would suggest praying Ephesians 1:17-19 for this person... especially if you are emotionally attached to them in some way.

Adam



4ChristisLove -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/21/2008 8:23:14 PM)

I want to thank you all for the advice. I did respond to what she said, but she has not responded in return. We will see! I replied before getting the last two poster's post. [:(] Since you were so kind to take time out to help me I wanted to share what I wrote:


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The only way I know to answer you is go to the Word.

About James being Jesus’ brother:

Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us? So they were offended at Him. Mark 6:3

And a lot of things that you said “except for #3” are doubtful issues anyway. But what really matters is this…


None of us are worthy of Heaven, but God gave his Son so that we could be reconciled with the Father. We are all sinners in need of a Savior and that is Jesus Christ.

Sin came into the world because of what one man did and with sin came death. This is why everyone must die - because everyone sinned. One man disobeyed God, and many became sinners. In the same way, one man obeyed God, and many will be made right. Romans 5:12, 19 - Adam was the 1st man and Jesus was the second man.

All have sinned and are not good enough for God’s glory, and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ. Romans 3:23-24 - As you see through Jesus and through no other way.

Acts 4:12 says “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

John 14:6 Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

We are not able to “earn” salvation through works. We have the fruits of the spirit once we accept Christ. Our life should reflect that by our fruits, but being a good person in life doesn’t earn a spot in Heaven. Like I said, no one is worthy just by who we are, but because of what Christ did.

Since we have been made right with God by our faith we have peace with God. This happened through our Lord Jesus Christ, who has brought us into that blessing of God’s grace that we now enjoy. And we are happy because of the hope we have of sharing God’s glory. Romans 51-2

This is what God told us: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the son has life, but whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:11-12


And then later that day I got a pamphlet in the mail so I felt lead to share this with her:

After my post to you, today, I got something in the mail from a ministry that I had registered for the other day. It's about how you can know you have eternal security. I thought of you and some of the things you said and some of the scriptures I shared.


My friend, have you given your life to the Lord? Do you have the assurance that if you were to die right now, you would go straight to heaven? If not, please let me tell you how you can be saved.

Admit Your Sin

First, you must understand that you are a sinner. The Bible says, "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

Abandon Self-Effort

Second, you must understand that you cannot save yourself by your efforts. The Bible is very clear that it's "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Titus 3:5).
Again, "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).


Acknowledge Christ's Payment


Third, you must believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for your sins. The Bible says, "God commandeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5: 8 ). That means He died in your place. Your sin debt has been paid by the blood of Jesus Christ, which "cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
Accept Him as Savior

Fourth, you must put your faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone for your salvation. The blood of Christ does you no good until you receive Him by faith. The Bible says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31).

Have you ever taken this all-important step of faith? If not, I urge you to do it right now. Why? Because Jesus is the only way to heaven!

Speaking of Jesus, the Apostle Peter said in Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Jesus Himself said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me" (John 14:6). It couldn't be any clearer than that.

Are you willing to offer the following prayer to God today?

"Oh, God, I'm a sinner, I'm lost, and I need to be saved. I know I can't save myself, so right now, once and for all, I trust You to save me. Come into my heart, forgive my sin, and make me Your child. I give You my life. I will live for You as You give me strength."

If you will make this your heartfelt prayer, God will hear and save you! Jesus has promised that He will not turn away anyone who comes to Him in faith (John 6:37). He will make you a child of God, if you will turn to Him (John 1:12).


And, I have such a HUGE heart for people to come to know the Lord. I pray that maybe even some of my friends on here will turn to Jesus and accept Him. I lived a great deal of my life not understanding Jesus' purpose or understanding the bible. But I am so thankful that I do now and that I KNOW I have eternal security through Jesus Christ. It amazes me on how people can have a "oh well" kind of attitude.? Like how can I know? or I do the best I can on this earth and that's all I can do? or "What is meant to be will be". We all have the choice on how we live our life or who we live our life for. We only have one chance, and after this life there are no second chances. We were created by God, for his Glory. When sin entered the equation, that wasn't pleasing to God. So we all are all sinners and none of us deserve to be in the presence of God. But thanks to Jesus he paid my debt, your debt, and everyone else's. We just have to accept that. The explanation that I like is if you were in court for a traffic ticket or worse, the judge wouldn't just say, "You can go free without punishment" because you said you were sorry. There is a penalty or payment of the offense. But, say someone stepped in and said, "I paid his fine". You would be SO grateful that someone paid your fine so that you didn't have to. Well, that is what Jesus did. He died on the cross and paid your fine so that you didn't have to pay it and go to Hell.



4ChristisLove -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/21/2008 8:32:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451


Where does the lightning "data" come from?

I have NO clue!



4ChristisLove -> RE: Advice on how to reply to this... (8/21/2008 8:34:31 PM)

I also would suggest praying Ephesians 1:17-19 for this person... especially if you are emotionally attached to them in some way.


Thank you for pointing out this scripture.



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