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RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... - 8/27/2008 4:05:27 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Debi,
I agree that we need to be careful with what we speak to others. This is what Jesus teaches and does. So He spoke truth. "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
It is truth that frees us---and truth is not only truth with a capital T as in the Truth, Jesus, but also knowing the truth about ourselves. Coming to believe and know the truth about myself is livegiving and freedom. It is only as I abide in His truth, what He says, and He knows all truth about me (and all mankind), that I am truly His disciple and will know the truth and be set free.
So when He tells me who I am, I believe Him. When Isaiah met the Lord, he said 'woe is me for I am a man of unclean lips'. Isaiah knew who he was when he met the Lord. When he looked at a holy God, he not only saw God's holiness, he saw himself.
As I fellowship with the Lord, I listen and learn and believe what He says about me. And what does He say? He says the flesh is seeking to please herself. And those self loving ways lead to all kinds of behaviors among which are hate, jealousy, fighting, immorality, pride, selfishness, envy, and on and on. This is who we are in the flesh. True, when we come to Christ we become a new creature but the flesh is always with us and Galatians makes it clear that we can walk either by the Spirit or the flesh.
Is it condemning to believe what Jesus says about me? about what living and walking in the flesh is all about? Is it condemning for Jesus to speak the truth to me, or you, or others about who we are or how we behave when the Spirit is not in control?
You see, I don't think this is condemnation at all. I think it is believing and knowing the Truth (as in Jesus) and the truth (about me) and this is the way of LIFE and FREEDOM.
Jesus said that for some people His word finds "no place in you." (John 8:37) These are those who do not listen and believe what Jesus says, about Himself and about themselves. They would not let Jesus' words, and life, penetrate their hearts and do the work that God desires to do within. In I Thessalonians, Paul put it this way, "And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe." (2:13)
I believe what God says about me and about my flesh. And it is only by knowing and believing Him that I can be set free.
So when I speak of pride as being exalting of self---regardless of how that exaltation is played out (I'm great or I'm bad), I am speaking truth. God's word is clear that we all are selfish and self loving creatures. That is a definition for pride---an inordinate self regard. For example, in Philippians 2, we are given perhaps the best description of Christlikeness. And it begins with "do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself"(3). Humility of mind is the opposite of pride and it is a product of either selfishness OR conceit.
The passage continues "do not merely look out for your own personal interests (which would be the proud, selfish way) but also for the interests of others (the way of humility)". Pride comes naturally to all of us. It is not condemning to know this. It is what God wants me to know and believe.
And only as I know and believe truth will I be set free! I will be abiding in His word. His word will have its rightful place in me. That is the place of true freedom.
And that is what He has done in me and for me. I did not see myself rightly at all. I had to believe the truth, see myself upclose and personal, before I could be set free. And it is an ongoing process. He continues to show me the 'me' He is freeing me from. Hallelujah!
I want others to know the truth. The truth is not condemnation. It is lifegiving freedom. But not everyone wants it. His word does not find a place in them. But I will continue to believe it and speak it.
He has set me free and is freeing me moment by moment as I abide in His word. That's my desire for all.
Hope that helps you understand. Blessings to you  . LL
Well... I am trying to understand. And it's ok to agree to dis-agree.
In a nutshell... Isaiah spoke to God with very powerful words. And we can look to them as an example of continuing to examine ourselves.
HOWEVER... Jesus came and bore ALL sin. HE is the NEW covenant... and in Him, we have received NEW life as heirs to the throne, His righteousness.
We no longer have to live under constant condemnation.... nor view ourselves as anything less than royalty.
Amen
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... - 8/27/2008 9:52:49 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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You all do understand that you are talking about the same things, right? That you are all bickering yet saying the same things?
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Debi,
I agree that we need to be careful with what we speak to others. This is what Jesus teaches and does. So He spoke truth. "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
It is truth that frees us---and truth is not only truth with a capital T as in the Truth, Jesus, but also knowing the truth about ourselves. Coming to believe and know the truth about myself is livegiving and freedom. It is only as I abide in His truth, what He says, and He knows all truth about me (and all mankind), that I am truly His disciple and will know the truth and be set free.
So when He tells me who I am, I believe Him. When Isaiah met the Lord, he said 'woe is me for I am a man of unclean lips'. Isaiah knew who he was when he met the Lord. When he looked at a holy God, he not only saw God's holiness, he saw himself.
As I fellowship with the Lord, I listen and learn and believe what He says about me. And what does He say? He says the flesh is seeking to please herself. And those self loving ways lead to all kinds of behaviors among which are hate, jealousy, fighting, immorality, pride, selfishness, envy, and on and on. This is who we are in the flesh. True, when we come to Christ we become a new creature but the flesh is always with us and Galatians makes it clear that we can walk either by the Spirit or the flesh.
Is it condemning to believe what Jesus says about me? about what living and walking in the flesh is all about? Is it condemning for Jesus to speak the truth to me, or you, or others about who we are or how we behave when the Spirit is not in control?
You see, I don't think this is condemnation at all. I think it is believing and knowing the Truth (as in Jesus) and the truth (about me) and this is the way of LIFE and FREEDOM.
Jesus said that for some people His word finds "no place in you." (John 8:37) These are those who do not listen and believe what Jesus says, about Himself and about themselves. They would not let Jesus' words, and life, penetrate their hearts and do the work that God desires to do within. In I Thessalonians, Paul put it this way, "And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe." (2:13)
I believe what God says about me and about my flesh. And it is only by knowing and believing Him that I can be set free.
So when I speak of pride as being exalting of self---regardless of how that exaltation is played out (I'm great or I'm bad), I am speaking truth. God's word is clear that we all are selfish and self loving creatures. That is a definition for pride---an inordinate self regard. For example, in Philippians 2, we are given perhaps the best description of Christlikeness. And it begins with "do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself"(3). Humility of mind is the opposite of pride and it is a product of either selfishness OR conceit.
The passage continues "do not merely look out for your own personal interests (which would be the proud, selfish way) but also for the interests of others (the way of humility)". Pride comes naturally to all of us. It is not condemning to know this. It is what God wants me to know and believe.
And only as I know and believe truth will I be set free! I will be abiding in His word. His word will have its rightful place in me. That is the place of true freedom.
And that is what He has done in me and for me. I did not see myself rightly at all. I had to believe the truth, see myself upclose and personal, before I could be set free. And it is an ongoing process. He continues to show me the 'me' He is freeing me from. Hallelujah!
I want others to know the truth. The truth is not condemnation. It is lifegiving freedom. But not everyone wants it. His word does not find a place in them. But I will continue to believe it and speak it.
He has set me free and is freeing me moment by moment as I abide in His word. That's my desire for all.
Hope that helps you understand. Blessings to you . LL
Well... I am trying to understand. And it's ok to agree to dis-agree.
In a nutshell... Isaiah spoke to God with very powerful words. And we can look to them as an example of continuing to examine ourselves.
HOWEVER... Jesus came and bore ALL sin. HE is the NEW covenant... and in Him, we have received NEW life as heirs to the throne, His righteousness.
We no longer have to live under constant condemnation.... nor view ourselves as anything less than royalty.
Amen
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RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... - 8/29/2008 7:15:08 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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LOL!! Actually, LL is saying we have to see ourselves through the word of God, no where is she saying we are under condemnation. And you are saying we have to see ourselves through the word of God. But it's interesting to read how you both say the same thing, yet present it differently.
If you go back and read her post carefully, you'll see she's saying, hey, I have this flesh that has a mind of its own and does its own nasty thing, but Jesus has set me free and helps me to follow after Him, not my nasty flesh. He has made me into a new creation, which is basically what you had said. She focuses on the fact that Jesus helps me follow after Him, not the nasty flesh that wants to rip off everyone's head and spit in their necks and you focus on our royalty which comes from Jesus setting us free of the nasty flesh that longs to rip off people's heads and spit in their necks. Again you are both looking at the same thing, only at different angles.
kim
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
You all do understand that you are talking about the same things, right? That you are all bickering yet saying the same things?
Not exactly..
However,
No bickering...
just discussion.
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