What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (Full Version)

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pinopolitan -> What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/13/2008 12:51:01 PM)

What part does faith play in regard to this forgiveness?



TrustingGod -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/13/2008 1:34:14 PM)

We exercise our faith by accepting that Jesus died for our sins - paying the penalty that is rightfully ours.



rcjames -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/13/2008 1:34:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinopolitan

What part does faith play in regard to this forgiveness?


Well you have to use your God given faith to accept the God given grace of salvation. Using one's faith to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for your sins. Then you recieve the forgiveness as it applies to you.

If you are not a Christian (Believer in Jesus Christ, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit) there is no forgiveness for you.

Thanks
RC



bob97 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/13/2008 1:47:05 PM)

quote:

What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law?


The law required a blood sacrifice to atone for sin. The blood of animals was only a temporary atonement. Christ in His crucifixion, because of His sinless nature provided the ultimate blood sacrifice for the atonement of sin for those who believe by faith.

I don't know if this is the answer you are looking for but it is the answer to your original question.

Bob



WesP -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/13/2008 2:57:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law?


The law required a blood sacrifice to atone for sin. The blood of animals was only a temporary atonement. Christ in His crucifixion, because of His sinless nature provided the ultimate blood sacrifice for the atonement of sin for those who believe by faith.

I don't know if this is the answer you are looking for but it is the answer to your original question.

Bob


[sm=thumbsup.gif]

Having faith in Who and What Christ is defines the role of faith in salvation. Christ's sacrifice provided the cleansing for forgiveness, and our faith in Him leads us in our daily walk.



Abishua -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/14/2008 9:19:35 AM)

The Temple sacrifices, especially the Yom Kippur sacrifices, were a shadow of Messiah's death.

When a person brought an animal to the Temple for the purpose of sacrifice, that person placed their hands on the head of the animal as a symbolic gesture of transferring one's sin to the animal. The animal in turn was killed as a substitutionary recipient of God's judgment.

God gave us His Son; His only begotten, to be our substitutionary recipient of God's judgment. He died in our place.



pinopolitan -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 8:11:18 AM)

Why is it right that those who reject Christ are unforgiven?



WesP -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 8:38:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinopolitan

Why is it right that those who reject Christ are unforgiven?


Because they are rejecting the grace of God. Do you think it would be "fair" for non-repentant people to be in heaven with God? Should they receive those rewards for refusal?



Wild-Rose -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 3:49:44 PM)

Jesus paid a heavy price to atone for sin. We accept it gratefully. If a person does not accept Jesus' sacrifice, then how are they going to pay or atone for their own sin? They can't.

And God cannot let sin enter heaven or else it wouldn't be heaven anymore, would it?



colliefan -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 8:50:03 PM)

The National Anthem of Hell



Theophile2 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 9:21:34 PM)

quote:

What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law?


Compare:
• Sin-offering (Lev 4; Lev 6:24-30; Isaiah 53:4-6) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Jn 1:29) with the purpose of being the Ransom (payment in violating God's Law).
• Trespass-offering (Lev 5; Lev 6:1-7; Lev 7:1-7; Is 53:10) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Mt 20:28) with the purpose of being the Expiation (restitution for damages).
• Burnt-offering (Lev 1; Lev 6:8-13) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Eph 5:2) with the purpose of Dedication one's self to God (sweet savor)
• The shedding of blood (Lev 16:14-19) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (1Jn 2:2) with the purpose of Atonement.
• The scape goat (Lev 16:8-10; Is 53:7-9) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (1 Pet 2:24) with the purpose of Remission of sins.
• The Mercy Seat (Ex 25:17-22) to the Deity of Christ (1 Jn 2:2) for the purposes of Propitiation (satisfaction/Forgiveness).
• Cereal-offering (Lev 2; Lev 6:14-23) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb, with the purpose of being Thankful and a Voluntary obedience (sweet savor)
• Peace-offering (Lev 3; Lev 7:11-21) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb, with the purpose of Reconciliation/Communion with God (sweet savor)
• Feast of First Fruits (Pentecost - Lev 23:15-16) compared to Regeneration (1 Pe 1:23)
• The Lavar (Ex 30:17-21) to Jesus as the Logos (Jn 15:3) with the purpose of Imputed Righteousness (given by God to us, not earned by us).
• The water (Ge 15:6) to the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:26; James 1:23-24) with the purpose of Sanctification (Php 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ)

The activities that occurred in the Israelite temple relate to the person and work of Jesus Christ as the second person of the Trinity - His work being His death and resurrection to accomplish your redemption, atonement, propitiation, imputation of righteousness, restoration of your relationship with God, Sanctification, and Salvation.

Christ did not come to abolish the law, but rather to fulfill it, to fulfill all righteousness, and as He stated on the cross - "it is finished" - i.e., no more work by man or God must be done to redeem His people. And as the book of Hebrews states, the old Israelite Temple and sacrificial system is no longer required, thanks to the work of Jesus Christ.

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Theophile2 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 9:39:03 PM)

quote:

Why is it right that those who reject Christ are unforgiven?


In short: Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

All humans are born spiritually dead with a broken relationship with Christ until the Elect are born-again and translated into the Body of Christ.

A. Sin is disobedience and enmity toward God (Rom 6:16; Ro 8:6-7, Col 1:21; Ja 4:4; 1Jn 2:15). Adam and Eve began as creations good in the eyes of God (Gen 1:31), in right relationship with Him. But that relationship with God was broken by Adam through his disobedience(1Sa 15:22-23a), and the result was the removal of the Holy Spirit from sustaining Adam and Eve both spiritually and physically. They died (Rom 6:23 Ge 2:17, 3:19; Eze 18:4; Ro 5:12, 19; Gal 6:8; Jam 1:15; Rev 21:8). immediately spiritually(Eph 2:1-2 ), and eventually physically (Gen 3:19). All of creation is sustained by God through the Holy Spirit, without which the creation will die (Act 17:28; 1Co 8:6; Col 1:17; Heb 1:3.

B. The race of man was at that time judged (Rom 5:18; Jn 3:18), and every human from that point on has been physically born alive but with a dead spirit that has no relationship with Christ (Rom 5:14). Therefore, from birth, a person is left to the devices of his or her own nature and the resultant behavior from the passions of the heart/flesh (Gen 6:5; Ecc 7:20; Jer 17:9; Mk 7:21-23; Ro 1:28-31, Ro 3:9-19; Eph 2:1-3; 1 Jn 1:8-10).

C. The only way this relationship is restored, is by being re-born spiritually by the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3) through a faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Jn 3:36; Eph 2:8; Jn 3:14-18, 6:27-29, 35, 40; Ro 10:9; 1 Jn 5:12) being quickened by the Word of God (1Pe 1:23; Ro 10:14), and translated (Col 1:13 ) from being a "goat" to being a "sheep." Original Sin is all about being spiritually dead in a broken relationship with Christ. Subsequent sin in thought, word, or deed; through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes which is greed, or the pride of life (1Jn 2:15-16) by a true Christian (1Jn 1:8-10) will cut off communication with God(Ps 66:18; Job 27:8, 27:9; Pr 15:8, 15:29, 21:13, 28:9; Is 1:15), but the true Christian’s relationship with God will never again be broken (Jn 6:39; Jn 10:27-30, 17:12, 18:9; 1Pe 1:5; Jud 1:1).

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bob97 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 10:00:53 PM)

Thank you Theophile...very well taught and very correct.

Bob



facedown -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/15/2008 10:36:29 PM)

quote:

Because they are rejecting the grace of God. Do you think it would be "fair" for non-repentant people to be in heaven with God? Should they receive those rewards for refusal?


not to get side-tracked here, but "because they are rejecting the grace of god..."

interesting - can "grace" really be rejected?
if "grace" is given/offered - can it really be taken away/removed?
what, exactly does "fair" have to do with it?

should they receive those rewards?
isn't that like the whole primal intention? that folks in days past (and presently) "refused" god - and yet god gives?
if something is "given" - can it really be "taken back", because someone "refused" it?


in the end, maybe it's the question and the answer that bugs me - because it seeks to relate to god in economic and materialistic ways (not that such ways cannot in some ways be appropriate for dialogue), and one ends up with a "santa"-type god.



terryjohn -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/16/2008 3:04:45 PM)

Faith plays an important part in forgiveness, in that if by faith, we will but make Christ both our Lord and Saviour, how much more will we do so when we see as we are seen? Now here is the purpose of faith in itself, that to whom much is given, much is required. You can see this is in satan's fall, in that after seeing the glory of God and to have sinned, there is really no forgiveness. As scripture says

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

However, faith saves us in that we have an exucse for our sins, but faith saves us in that it reveals the inner most motivations of our spirit. Sin we must remember is not bad actions but simply the lack of faith and faith by definition is but a hope and not sight. Jesus says that blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, for as already mentioned, we might all well believe if we saw and handled the Word of life, Jesus our Lord and yet with so little to go on we believe. Such faithfullness and love is what God seeks. Given so little we believe so much and yet those who were given so much believed so little.

Now as to how faith accesses Gods grace is that the death of Christ is one of realisation (revelation). As I see it, God is leading men to the conclusion that He is who He says He is, so that all knees in heaven, on earth and in hell itself will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God.

This all begins long ago and really takes on meaning when God asks Abraham to sacrifics his son. Abraham is willing but God seeing his faith stops him, but in doing so He sets a time when He will sacrifice His only begotten son, something He would not let Abraham do to show His love and good will towards men.

Now the sending, the birth, crucifiction and ressurrection are all important steps in God trying to show men who God is and what He requires of them. It is true to say forgiveness was given for all men if they but realise it. You could say forgiveness was always there for the very idea of sending His only begotten son indicated God's good will towards men and this is what the angels foretold the shepherds at the birth of Christ. This is where faith comes in, in that faith recognises what happened and who made the sacrifice. Now it cost us nothing, for the sacrifice was God's. Like with Thomas when faith sees the wounds of Christ, we fall on our knees and cry, my Lord and my God.

Unavoidably when our minds and hearts see, understand and accept things, it necessarily turns our lives around. Scripture talks about this realisation in terms of having our lives transformed by the renewing of our minds or being set free by the truth in Chirst. The born again experience is about our opening of our eyes to what was there all along. Scripture refers to this as being once blind but now we see. Christ also says that if we were still blind, we should also have an excuse for our sins and I guess this is the necessity of faith, in that faith, as Paul refers to it, is like looking though a dim window or into a dim looking glass in that in both we do not yet fully see and there in is our excuse and saving grace for as Christ prayed on the cross, "Father forgive them for the know not what they do."

What seperates us from those that perish? Our faith and faith alone for in faith we have begun to see the Glory of God in Christ and have only begun to worship Him for such a revelation of love, goodwill and forgiveness.



colliefan -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/16/2008 6:04:32 PM)

Matt 7:13 - 14 (ESV) 13“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy£ that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matt 7:21 - 23 (ESV) 21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matt 10:32 - 33 (ESV) 32So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Luke 12:8 - 9 (ESV) 8“And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God, 9but the one who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

John 3:16 - 18 (ESV) 16“For God so loved the world,£ that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Rom 1:28 - 32 (ESV) 28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

2 Thess 2:8 - 12 (ESV) 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 John 1:8 - 10 (ESV) 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2 John 1:7 (ESV) 7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Jude 1:4 (ESV) 4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.



Sammy_S -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/17/2008 4:54:21 PM)

quote:


What part does faith play in regard to this forgiveness?


God grants us faith in Jesus Christ out of mercy.The sinner is not responsible nor capable of such a great act but the Lord out of his love through the death of Christ has set a aside for himself a wretched people to grant them faith unto salvation.



Theophile2 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/17/2008 9:12:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Thank you Theophile...very well taught and very correct.

Bob


Praise be to God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit ... who is the Wonderful Counselor.[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]

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Theophile2 -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/17/2008 9:17:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinopolitan

What part does faith play in regard to this forgiveness?


Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

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Codegrazer -> RE: What did God do in order to make forgiveness of sins right according to the Law? (8/21/2008 10:48:26 AM)

quote:

if something is "given" - can it really be "taken back", because someone "refused" it?


You can give me a present for my birthday. Put it in the pile with the rest. I can say no thanks--Not open it up or not even take it at all. Just leave it sitting there, or more rudely, just say no, I don't want your gift. Why? Because I have free will.

God does not force us to accept His gifts. He is a respecter of our free will. God might bless us with the gift of a baby. But we don't have to accept it. We can abandon the child, abort (murder) it or give it away and so we no longer have the gift that was given. God did not take it back but we still do not have the gift that was given.



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