Newby Questions - Genesis (Full Version)

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Fledgling -> Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 1:02:29 PM)

[8|]1)
LORD, lord, Lord, God, LORD God Is their significance to capitalization or non-capitalization in the bible when referring to God?
For instance

Genesis 18
Three Men Visit Abraham
1.The LORD appeared to Abraham near the large trees of Mamre. Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent. It was the hottest time of the day.
2.Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. He quickly left the entrance to his tent to meet them. He bowed low to the ground.
3.He said, "My lord, if you are pleased with me, don't pass me

[8|]2) Genesis 6 says God told Noah to take 2 of every animal - but then in Genesis 7 it says seven of every kind of clean animal.. and two of every unclean. why is it different?

Genesis 7
1.The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.
2.Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,
3.and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
4.Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

[8|]3) In Genesis 18, Why is the conversation between Abraham and the LORD drawn out so eg. 50 - 45 - 40 - 20 - 10.. Why not just ask if he will spare righteous people?

25.Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
26.The LORD said, "If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake."
27.Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes,
28.what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?" "If I find forty-five there," he said, "I will not destroy it."
29.Once again he spoke to him, "What if only forty are found there?" He said, "For the sake of forty, I will not do it."
30.Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?" He answered, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."
31.Abraham said, "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?" He said, "For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it."
32.Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?" He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."
33.When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Thanks in advance for your help!
I am reading the bible in a year from start to finish and really enjoying it!!



ta_mosquito -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 1:09:13 PM)

Welcome to the forums! Here are my off-the-cuff responses:

1) Yes, the different forms of capitalization mean they came from different Hebrew words. I think that if you look in the preface to your Bible, it'll tell you the differences.

2) My suspicion is that the 7 of every clean animal was so that Noah and his family would have some for food and/or sacrifices (but probably for food).

3) Ask Abraham. [8D] I think it was almost like a bartering or auction kind of thing - "OK, God, if you're willing to spare the city for 40 people, how about for 30? How about for 20?" Notice, though, that he stopped at 10. I read somewhere that Lot's family was around that size, maybe a little less - he had himself, his wife, his 3 (or was it two?) daughters, and the sons-in-law. There weren't even 10 righteous in the city.



Fledgling -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 1:21:11 PM)

Wow thanks,

Those answers make alot of sence and now it all seems much clearer to me..

I am still suprised that Abraham felt he could barter with God.. I understand that his family was close to 10.. but why not just say.. could you spare the righteous?

This is a great forum.. and its really helping me to enjoy and understand the bible more then ever before.

Thanks [:)]



Theophile2 -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 2:06:19 PM)

ta_mosquito gives you some pretty good responses to your questions. I am glad to see you are so curious in your studies! [sm=thumbsup.gif]

May I recommend that you download "e-sword" ... you will be able to VERY easily click a link on the original word and pull up the definition of it, as well as review commentaries on the passage in question.

Generally, LORD is in reference to the tetragrammaton "YHWH" which was never spelled out by the Israelites as it is THE name of God and they didn't want to blaspheme the name of God and so they refused to write it out fully nor did they say it when they read it. Even though western translators have translated it as Jehovah or Yahweh, My "eTeacher" Hebrew instructor says no one knows how to properly translate it or pronounce it because it never was in Israel. When the Hebrew language vowel points are added they use vowel points that remind them to say "Adonai" instead.

Generally, Lord is in reference to what could otherwise be translated as "Adonai" or "Elohim"

Blessings to you [sm=wink.gif]

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



Fledgling -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 3:24:05 PM)

Wow - esword is soo cool and so powerful..

I am a bit overwhelmed by all the add-ons.

Could you recommend some of the best ones?

Thanks and Blessings to you :-)



Theophile2 -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/11/2008 5:22:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fledgling

Wow - esword is soo cool and so powerful..

I am a bit overwhelmed by all the add-ons.

Could you recommend some of the best ones?

Thanks and Blessings to you :-)


Well, I'm sort of a fanatic so I just downloaded ALL of the free stuff ... it's really easy to use ... just put the download in the same folder that was created when you installed the program. Then look to the pull down menus to select which commentaries, dictionaries, and translations you want to have show up in the windows.

Have fun researching the Word! [sm=smile-l.gif]

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/12/2008 12:50:33 AM)

Fledgling, a lot of times, I am sure you know, people have differing answers on CW just as they do in school, places of worship, etc. I hope you and others won't mind if I write another view, but people rarely get bent out of shape about that.

Regarding question #1:
The word lord is an English translation of adonai and can have a meaning close to our "mister" It is a term of respect and when used for our L-rd, it is capitalized. However, read in Hebrew, the Bible clearly says that YHVH came! Hm-m-m-m.

Initially, the visitors are called "men" in some English versions. However, upon reading the incident, the visitors are obviously more than mere men, and the Scripture clearly says that Adonai appeared to Abraham, not three adonais. Some translations call them angels, which can be either simple messengers or "other-worldly" beings.

There is a lot more to the story, too, when read in Hebrew and when considering that an angel is not capable of giving life. Further, it is interesting that Abraham questions the one, calling Him Adonai (? I need to look that up and see!), yet no one has seen G-d and lived. Interesting, too, that only two of them continued toward the city.

#3 shows one of the ways a narrative is told in Hebrew. This is very poetic. I am sure you have heard/read the children's story that goes something like:
There was a crooked man
And he walked a crooked mile
He had a crooked house . . . .

Or how about:
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly
I don't know why she swallowed a fly
I think she'll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a spider
That wiggled and jiggled and giggled inside her
She swallowed the spider to swallow the fly
I don't know why she swallowed a fly
I think she'll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a cat . . . .

Although these stories may not have originated in Hebrew, this is an ancient Hebrew way of telling a story in order to make a point. The story of an incident builds and builds, in order to make a point.

This is not to say that this is not exactly how it happened at all, but it is a great demonstration of Hebraic story-telling.



Fledgling -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/12/2008 8:57:21 PM)

Covaan_Meshuga,

Thank you for the intelligent and insightful reply.

Regarding question #1: “mister” being the meaning of “lord” makes a lot of sense.

I got the impression that the men were more then men… they travel with God and know Gods plan.

Below is the translation from “The Complete Jewish Bible” Genesis 18

• 22.
• The men turned away from there and went toward S'dom, but Avraham remained standing before ADONAI.

Its interesting that “the men turned away and went toward S’dom, but Avraham and ADONAI remained to have a conversation.

Then after the conversation between Avraham and ADONAI
• 33.
• ADONAI went on his way as soon as he had finished speaking to Avraham, and Avraham returned to his place.

It seems to me that then ADONAI went on by himself.. without the other two.

Then there are only two angels going to S’dom… In Genesis 19,

• 1.
• The two angels came to S'dom that evening, when Lot was sitting at the gate of S'dom. Lot saw them, got up to greet them and prostrated himself on the ground.

Your comment "#3 : shows one of the ways a narrative is told in Hebrew. This is very poetic. a great demonstration of Hebraic story-telling. " That makes a lot of sense also thanks 


Re: "G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted. "At the bottom of your post….

• In Genesis 6 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
• 3.
• ADONAI said, "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years."
• 4.
• The N'filim were on the earth in those days, and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; these were the ancient heroes, men of renown.

Do you think the N’filim were fallen angels or sons of God? Also its interesting that God says "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever" and this is when the human life span changed to 120 years.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/12/2008 11:06:37 PM)

[:)] Have we got the absolutely best Book or what?? Intriguing! It can be read and understood by a child, yet that same child can read it 15 years later and see it totally different, digging out nuggets never before imagined. Then, upon returning to the same passages later, see something more, something brand new! It is a mystery, but an open one to those who take the time and who study!

It just knocks my socks off!

Regarding Genesis 6, I think it the "sons of G-d" were the chosen ones of G-d -- human beings He had set apart for His service -- common people to others but sanctified to Him. They forgot they were the Called and began to look outside of those who were the Chosen, taking heathen wives. But just because I think that is it obviously doesn't make it so. [:D]

Regarding
quote:

Also its interesting that God says "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever" and this is when the human life span changed to 120 years
, this also began after the flood, after the earth was divided (see Peleg, I think it was). Some people do not think that the earth physically divided at that time, but I think it did. And again, that doesn't make it so, but there appears to be plenty of evidence that the continents were once all joined.



Fledgling -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/12/2008 11:59:16 PM)

[:)] This is definately the best book ever.. I am now just being able to properly appreciate its beauty and complexity with all of the on-line computer tools... especially e-sword.org

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga Also its interesting that God says "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever" and this is when the human life span changed to 120 years, this also began after the flood, after the earth was divided (see Peleg, I think it was). Some people do not think that the earth physically divided at that time, but I think it did. And again, that doesn't make it so, but there appears to be plenty of evidence that the continents were once all joined.


I found the reference to when the Earth was divided.. it is after the flood..it is not much of a reference but it is there. Genesis 10:25

The first time I find a reference to humans only living around 120 years is when Sarah, Abrahams wife passed away at 127 and she was then considered elderly... Genesis 23:1

Thanks for your input !!! Peace and Love and Blessings to you :-)

Fledgling



Theophile2 -> RE: Newby Questions - Genesis (8/15/2008 8:25:00 PM)

quote:

Regarding question #1: “mister” being the meaning of “lord” makes a lot of sense.


From my Hebrew class:

אָדוֹן ’adon lord, master (m.s.)
אֲדֹנָי ’adonay Lord (divine title)
יהוה yhwh pronounced: ’adonay LORD (name of Israel’s God)

Blessings !

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



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