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deliveredarling -> Need parent to parent advice please (8/9/2008 9:34:05 PM)
We just returned from vacation. We took our two children's BF with us. The BF are brother and sister. The older brother was very rude and lacked graciousness. I feel like I should say something to their mother. She and I are very close friends, however I don't know that I want to put our friendship in a bind. Would you want know if your child was rude, disrespectful and ungrateful? I know that I would, however not all parents want to know. I told her that he had said that he was sick of all this beach cr**. She immediately made an excuse that there was something else with his girlfriend going on. So, I'm not sure what to do. I do know that, that was the last trip he will go on with us. Your input is appreciated.

manda59 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/9/2008 10:13:11 PM)
How old are the two children, and was it their choice that they went with you?

csl7037 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/9/2008 10:26:43 PM)
How old is he? Being your kids' best friends and son of your good friend, I assume you're around him a lot normally - was his behavior on vacation out of the ordinary?

pbaribeault -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 1:24:54 AM)
I might go with an attitude of "A couple of things happened on our trip that made me wonder if maybe something is bothering Joey. I don't know if he enjoyed the trip, and we weren't impressed with his behaviour at times." Then give more details if she asks.

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 6:36:08 AM)
The boy is 15. The kids were invited, if they didn't want to go, all they had to do was say so. Nobody forced them to go, to the best of my knowledge. The kids spend a lot of time over here. Never once has the young man been disrespectful to me until this trip. I had gotten on to his sister(10) because we had an agreement that when I waved the kids knew to come back into shore. She had floated down from us and the current was taking her out. She was just patting the water in attempts to look like she was trying to move (she did not realize the danger she was in), so I was reiterating to her the dangers and reminding her of the agreement. The young man said, " She made a mistake, get over it." That was it, I saw red[:@] My own children do not speak to me like this. Before we left, their Mom and I sat down with the boys and explained the rules. We were camping and that requires a team effort. The kids are at our house enough to feel like it's home. The guest syndrome is nonexistent. The trip wasn't about the kids or even necessarily for the kids. When there was work to be done, the boy disappeared until the work was finished and suddenly reappear. He ordered his younger sister to do things for him, like getting his own plate and putting it up. There was an expectation of him being served and it revolving around his pleasure (It seemed that way). We planned and stocked up for months for this trip. It was a huge expense for us to take two cars just so the kids could go. We cut corners where we could and bought the knock off sodas. He was talking to my son and said how he didn't like this cheap stuff. I'm sorry, but it's better than nothing. Why say anything at all? There wasn't even a thank you. Their mom told me they haven't been on a vacation in many years. We had really hoped these kids would have the time of their lives. We tried to make it as fun as possible.

Sadey -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 8:24:12 AM)
Did you do anything to stop the behavior while on the trip? If you did and he refused to listen then don't take him again.

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 8:35:05 AM)
quote: Did you do anything to stop the behavior while on the trip? I corrected the disrespect and made it clear that what goes on in his household doesn't necessarily happen in mine. I let the unwillingness to participate, go. We left him at the tent for about 2.5 hours because he wanted to play video games rather than come to the beach... I still need to know if I should discuss this with his mother. Would you want to know if your children behaved like this while away from you?

zoebob -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 8:39:06 AM)
Yes, I would want to know

ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 8:53:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling The boy is 15. The kids were invited, if they didn't want to go, all they had to do was say so. Nobody forced them to go, to the best of my knowledge. The kids spend a lot of time over here. Never once has the young man been disrespectful to me until this trip. I had gotten on to his sister(10) because we had an agreement that when I waved the kids knew to come back into shore. She had floated down from us and the current was taking her out. She was just patting the water in attempts to look like she was trying to move (she did not realize the danger she was in), so I was reiterating to her the dangers and reminding her of the agreement. The young man said, " She made a mistake, get over it." That was it, I saw red[:@] My own children do not speak to me like this. Before we left, their Mom and I sat down with the boys and explained the rules. We were camping and that requires a team effort. The kids are at our house enough to feel like it's home. The guest syndrome is nonexistent. The trip wasn't about the kids or even necessarily for the kids. When there was work to be done, the boy disappeared until the work was finished and suddenly reappear. He ordered his younger sister to do things for him, like getting his own plate and putting it up. There was an expectation of him being served and it revolving around his pleasure (It seemed that way). We planned and stocked up for months for this trip. It was a huge expense for us to take two cars just so the kids could go. We cut corners where we could and bought the knock off sodas. He was talking to my son and said how he didn't like this cheap stuff. I'm sorry, but it's better than nothing. Why say anything at all? There wasn't even a thank you. Their mom told me they haven't been on a vacation in many years. We had really hoped these kids would have the time of their lives. We tried to make it as fun as possible. I don't post over here much, I hang out over in singles because I'm a widow. But I saw your post on the side and clicked on it. For reference, I'm a mom myself, of 4. My oldest daughter is 25 and works exclusively with children. So what I'm about to say takes into account an awfully lot of experience. Don't say anything. You will lose your friend. From what you describe, this is an ongoing, ingrained behavior that is not just the son's problem, but actually something that has come about by many relationship adjustments in their family. Probably the dad has this type of attitude, too--possibly you've just never seen it. They don't want to know that their son manipulates them in the same manner he acted toward you. They would be offended that you were offended at his behavior. Even if they accept the criticism kindly, they will make excuses for his behavior--they've been doing it so long now that they consider it normal and making excuses for him is so habitual they don't even notice it. Even if you decide that you can afford to lose the friendship for the sake of the rightness of informing the parents, it is unlikely that the child will be helped. He will go on acting in this very selfish and resentful manner, but you will turn into the enemy in this family. His behavior will not be acknowledged, but your behavior will be slandered and twisted. Don't take him on vacation again. Frankly, I'd minimize the time my own son spent with him, and I'd have an explanatory discussion with my son concerning the reasons behind that. I'd consider that the best way I could use the experience would be as a teaching tool for my own children. I'd sit them down and explain from scripture how this young man's behavior was not pleasing to God. If this happened in our family, we'd continue to love the family, and pray for them regularly, asking God to show them the problems that have allowed the son to grow up in this way. But I wouldn't tell the parents. I've tried that, and all it does is cause pain and broken relationships. The parents will not believe you. Just my .02 shallbe

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:05:25 AM)
quote: Don't say anything. You will lose your friend. From what you describe, this is an ongoing, ingrained behavior that is not just the son's problem, but actually something that has come about by many relationship adjustments in their family. Probably the dad has this type of attitude, too--possibly you've just never seen it. They don't want to know that their son manipulates them in the same manner he acted toward you. They would be offended that you were offended at his behavior. Even if they accept the criticism kindly, they will make excuses for his behavior--they've been doing it so long now that they consider it normal and making excuses for him is so habitual they don't even notice it. This was my fear. Dad does have this attitude. Excuses were already made for this kid. I know she will ask why he isn't coming over so much, then what? I'm a very upfront kind of person. I don't beat around the bush. However, I don't want there to be a nuclear fall out either.

csl7037 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:20:10 AM)
I agree after seeing more info. Don't say anything. If he was ordering his sister around and she didn't flip out, seems like his standard behavior. At first I thought maybe something was upsetting him. But it sounds like maybe you got a more clear glimpse into how their family really operates.

ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:22:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling quote: Don't say anything. You will lose your friend. From what you describe, this is an ongoing, ingrained behavior that is not just the son's problem, but actually something that has come about by many relationship adjustments in their family. Probably the dad has this type of attitude, too--possibly you've just never seen it. They don't want to know that their son manipulates them in the same manner he acted toward you. They would be offended that you were offended at his behavior. Even if they accept the criticism kindly, they will make excuses for his behavior--they've been doing it so long now that they consider it normal and making excuses for him is so habitual they don't even notice it. This was my fear. Dad does have this attitude. Excuses were already made for this kid. I know she will ask why he isn't coming over so much, then what? I'm a very upfront kind of person. I don't beat around the bush. However, I don't want there to be a nuclear fall out either. How about just saying "oh, we've been trying to spend more family time together lately." It's true, and it will be acceptable to her. After that, whether you are a forthright person or not (and I am forthright, so I know that it's hard not to say anything), it's really none of her business. She can't change her husband nor her son, so there's no point in bringing more pain into her life that she won't be able to deal with anyway. But you can keep your son from taking up her son's attitude, and at this point that is more important. Question: is this family in a church? Is it your church? If so, could your husband possibly go to this man and confront his behavior? This is the only remotely scripturally sound plan of action if you want to do something about the situation. If this is not possible, then perhaps the best thing is to pray and just be there for your friend. shallbe

29redballoons -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:31:06 AM)
I agree that I wouldn't say anything to the mom...however, if this is your son's "best" friend...then I would continue to allow him to come over AFTER explaining our house rules to him. Explain that you were not happy with his behavior towards yourself on vacation. Explain why it was wrong in your eyes...tell him that you know his parents have rules in their home, "well these are ours". If he breaks them...then limit his visiting, but give yourself an opportunity to disciple him as this may be what God has intended all along. As long as your child is not in any danger from this kid, don't miss the opportunity to minister.

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:45:36 AM)
quote: I agree that I wouldn't say anything to the mom...however, if this is your son's "best" friend...then I would continue to allow him to come over AFTER explaining our house rules to him. Explain that you were not happy with his behavior towards yourself on vacation. Explain why it was wrong in your eyes...tell him that you know his parents have rules in their home, "well these are ours". If he breaks them...then limit his visiting, but give yourself an opportunity to disciple him as this may be what God has intended all along. As long as your child is not in any danger from this kid, don't miss the opportunity to minister. I feel like I'm in a catch 22 here. The boy knows our house rules. He knows that I don't tolerate back talk or rudeness. I treat him like he is my own when he is here. The mom knows too. Before we left, his mom and I sat down and covered the rules regarding participation ect. It didn't matter, he did what he did anyways. I suppose that the boys can still be friends, but I am leary about letting him spend so much time over here. Then i find out this, this morning. The mom said she har their middle daughter would take care of our animals while we were gone. I have an indoor puppy and two outside dogs and several cats. They agreed that the daughter would stay here to let the puppy out in the am and give her her breakfast. Apparently the mom knew before the agreement was made that the daughter was attending volleyball camp in the afternoons, so she didn't spend the night. My puppy was left in her pen from the evening until middle afternoon when mom arrived to let her out. I'm very disappointed and quite angry that she made an agreement knowing before hand that she wasn't going to fulfill it. This one I will not let go or even slide. Mom needs to be held accountable, friendship or not. Mom took that responsibility knowing.... I certainly could have made other arrangements for the animals if she couldn't do it. Now I wish I had of done that.[&o]

csl7037 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 9:58:30 AM)
I could get over the kid being a brat on the trip. I think you can allow the boys to be friends, unless you son picks up an attitude. But the mom disregarding her commitment to you would be a bit of a deal breaker. Kids will be kids but they do what they learn. I don't think you can only blame the dad if mom is selfish and doesn't follow through either.

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 10:28:41 AM)
Moments ago, when I was discussing this with my son, he tells me, he found 12 piles of poop in his room, my daughter found 2, my husband's shower mat reeks of urine. I'm in tears and have written a "very sharp e-mail", as my husband put it. He said it will probably end the friendship. Was it really a friendship to begin with? My heart is truly broken. I trusted this woman, with my home, my inner sanctuary. Do I send the e-mail? My gut says, send it, hold her accountable, let her know my standing. Friendship or not. If I can't trust her word, then is there really a friendship?

pbaribeault -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 10:55:15 AM)
Do NOT send the email!!!! Just don't! A sharp email is never the answer to anything. Go. See her. Talk with her. Show her your face and see hers. That's a relationship. No matter what she's done, typing to her is completely inappropriate. Sharp letters are for businesses and perhaps pen-pals that you couldn't talk to if you wanted to. Using it now is all about your steam.

ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 11:02:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pbaribeault Do NOT send the email!!!! Just don't! A sharp email is never the answer to anything. Go. See her. Talk with her. Show her your face and see hers. That's a relationship. No matter what she's done, typing to her is completely inappropriate. Sharp letters are for businesses and perhaps pen-pals that you couldn't talk to if you wanted to. Using it now is all about your steam. Agreed. Scripturally, your responsibility is to go to her personally. You can only do this scripturally after you have calmed down and given this several days while you work on your own heart, giving God your disappointment and asking for His perspective. Then you can go to her in love, in person. NEVER have I EVER sent an email in this sort of situation when I didn't regret it later. Just wait. Nothing is to be gained by dealing with it by email. Nothing is to be gained by dealing with it until your heart is calm and has gained perspective. shallbe

garsyt -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 11:20:40 AM)
I too would go see the person. I once wrote a "strongly worded letter" that estranged me from my best friend for several years. Broke my heart and hers. We both know that if we had bothered to sit down and hammer this all out things would never happened the way they did. Now it is good that you wrote out your anger. That is good - but don't send it. Talk to your friend and express your disappointment. AS for the kids - I would still allow the child to visit my home - reiterating the house rules the very next time he visited, making it VERY clear that if the rules are not followed and if there is any disrespect or back talk that he will be going home and his mother will be called. The kids in my neighborhood KNOW that the same rules that apply to my children apply to them while they are in my home or in my care. They simply don't get away with ANYTHING and they will obey my rules, unless it is in direct violation of their parents rules! Thankfully there is only one parent locally that has had a problem with me requiring her son to follow my rules when visiting but that's okay too. That child is simply not welcome at my home anymore. His mother things I'm an over protective, old biddy that never allows her children any freedom. So be it. To me it was about following my rules and speaking respectfully to me while here and her son did neither. There was one other older child that is no longer welcome here as well but his younger siblings are here all the time. That was because of his choice of conversational topics and words used in the presence of my younger children. I gave him a warning - but it continued and he simply had to go. Go see her. It may just preserve a friendship - if not - you will know that you did what you could without being a doormat and allowing yourself and family to be taken advantage of. Blessings, Garsy

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 11:28:52 AM)
I didn't send the e-mail. I've been sitting on it. It felt good to write it though. I don't know that it's inappropriate to send it. That's how she told me that they didn't stay in the house. She could have told me face to face when we returned her kids to her, and she didn't. This tells me, she knew she didn't keep her word and wanted to avoid the confrontation. It won't matter if I send her an e-mail, she still will avoid it, I know her too well. I say that, but I trusted her. Go figure, just when you think you know someone.....

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 11:53:00 AM)
Thank you ladies for helping me to mull through this. You've all made very valid points that I can't always see in the midst of my anger. Thanks for bearing with me and being supportive. I appreciate the Godly counsel.[:)]

ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 1:53:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling I didn't send the e-mail. I've been sitting on it. It felt good to write it though. I don't know that it's inappropriate to send it. That's how she told me that they didn't stay in the house. She could have told me face to face when we returned her kids to her, and she didn't. This tells me, she knew she didn't keep her word and wanted to avoid the confrontation. It won't matter if I send her an e-mail, she still will avoid it, I know her too well. I say that, but I trusted her. Go figure, just when you think you know someone..... Unfortunately just because that is the way she communicated with you doesn't mean that that's the way you should communicate with her. Our behavior, as much as is possible, must line up with scripture. Scripture says to go to her. I have prayed for reconciliation and peace in this situation! shallbe

manda59 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 4:44:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling The mom said she har their middle daughter would take care of our animals while we were gone. I have an indoor puppy and two outside dogs and several cats. They agreed that the daughter would stay here to let the puppy out in the am and give her her breakfast. Apparently the mom knew before the agreement was made that the daughter was attending volleyball camp in the afternoons, so she didn't spend the night. My puppy was left in her pen from the evening until middle afternoon when mom arrived to let her out. Could I ask how old this middle daughter is?

deliveredarling -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 6:30:30 PM)
She is 13. She didn't stay but only one night. The mom came everyday after work, she only works in the am until about noon.

MrsTracy72 -> RE: Need parent to parent advice please (8/10/2008 6:38:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling I corrected the disrespect and made it clear that what goes on in his household doesn't necessarily happen in mine. I still need to know if I should discuss this with his mother. Would you want to know if your children behaved like this while away from you? I would say, that you did what you could at the time because you needed to have a good time too, and don't take them again. If it comes up in conversation with the other mom, I would simply tell her that you have decided not to let the kids bring friends next time, or that next time, they can bring friends, but different friends so that they don't make any of their other friends feel left out or something like that. That is the problem with taking other peoples kids. You simply don't know how it is going to go until you do it.

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