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Don675 -> SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/9/2008 3:17:27 PM)

I have a question about assurance of salvation.My brother who lives in
ILLINOIS is a christian and his son died on july 17,2008 of cancer in ILLINOIS[lives near ohare field].Many christians[pastors,etc.] counseled
with my nephew before he died. My nephew was raised in a christian home and made a proffesion of faith in CHRIST earlier and was responsive before he died to spiritual materrs.
My point is this my brother claims you cant really have assurance of
salvation before you die.I dont agee with that statement.I think he likes
to play devils advocate on things like this.In other words i make a
statement and he disagrees with it.
Any one care to adress this issue on assurance of salvation and verses
from the BIBLE?
DONK



LCannon -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/9/2008 3:38:08 PM)

We can't ever be totally sure about another's appropriation of Jesus' obedience/sacrifice except for ourselves however, we can assess one's(and our own obedience)to that sacrifice and Victory. I'm pretty sure I know some of the folk that will join me in Glory by their life experience, style and obedience to His Call. If people claim to be redeemed to the same blood as me I take them at their word but if I don't see the evidence of a changing heart I distance myself. I'm just glad I don't have the responsibility for that call.



magiceraserbrush -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/9/2008 4:33:30 PM)

Don675 Salvation wel l on judgement day God wants us to do right to people and do things in the name of Christ Jesus so you well be in the book of life well paid Job 1:9 (LB) Strong tower in besieged city, Judges (9:51) Forgiving gracious compassionate God Nehemiah9:17 I hope this helps you find salvation it comes within you If you do good you well find savation because you well be written in the book of life.



magiceraserbrush -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/9/2008 4:40:25 PM)

LCannon That is correct to stay who do not foollow in the foot steps of God all you can do is Pray for them and may God forgive them It's not our choice to Judge them because that well be up to God God bless hope this helps answer your question.



Theophile2 -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/10/2008 7:16:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don675

My point is this my brother claims you cant really have assurance of
salvation before you die.I dont agee with that statement.


I'm glad you disagree. A book called "Assured by God" (forward by R.C. Sproul, edited by Burk Parsons) might be of assistance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

We can't ever be totally sure about another's appropriation of Jesus' obedience/sacrifice except for ourselves however, we can assess one's(and our own obedience)to that sacrifice and Victory.


Very true, LCannon ... Mt 7:21, 13:29-30

For further consideration:

"God, by an eternal and immutable decree, out of his mere love, for the praise of his glorious grace, to be manifested in due time, has elected some angels to glory;[1 Timothy 5:21] and in Christ has chosen some men to eternal life, and the means thereof:[Ephesians 1:4-6; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14] and also, according to his sovereign power, and the unsearchable counsel of his own will, (whereby he extends or withholds favor as he pleases) has passed by and foreordained the rest to dishonor and wrath, to be for their sin inflicted, to the praise of the glory of his justice.[Romans 9:17-18, 21-22; Matthew 11:25-26; 2 Timothy 2:20; Jude 4; 1 Peter 2:8]"

"The union which the elect have with Christ is the work of God’s grace,[Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 2:6-7] whereby they are spiritually and mystically, yet really and inseparably, joined to Christ as their head and husband;[1 Corinthians 6:17; John 10:28; Ephesians 5:23, 30] which is done in their effectual calling.[1 Peter 5:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9]"

"Adoption is an act of the free grace of God,[1 John 3:1] in and for his only Son Jesus Christ,[Ephesians 1:5; Galatians 4:4-5] whereby all those that are justified are received into the number of his children,[John 1:12] have his name put upon them,[2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 3:12] the Spirit of his Son given to them,[Galatians 4:6] are under his fatherly care and dispensations,[Psalm 103:13; Proverbs 14:26; Matthew 6:32] admitted to all the liberties and privileges of the sons of God, made heirs of all the promises, and fellow-heirs with Christ in glory.[Hebrews 6:12; Romans 8:17]"

"True believers, by reason of the unchangeable love of God,[Jeremiah 31:3] and his decree and covenant to give them perseverance,[2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 13:20-21; 2 Samuel 23:5] their inseparable union with Christ,[1 Corinthians 1:8-9] his continual intercession for them,[Hebrews 7:25; Luke 22:32] and the Spirit and seed of God abiding in them,[1 John 2:27; 1 John 3:9] can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace,[Jeremiah 32:40; John 10:28] but are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.[1 Peter 1:5]"

"Such as truly believe in Christ, and endeavor to walk in all good conscience before him,[1 John 2:3] may, without extraordinary revelation, by faith grounded upon the truth of God’s promises, and by the Spirit enabling them to discern in themselves those graces to which the promises of life are made,[1 Corinthians 2:12; 1 John 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 1 John 4:13, 16; Hebrews 6:11-12] and bearing witness with their spirits that they are the children of God,[Romans 8:16] be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace, and shall persevere therein unto salvation.[1 John 5:13]"

"Assurance of grace and salvation not being of the essence of faith,[Ephesians 1:13] true believers may wait long before they obtain it;[Isaiah 50:10; Psalm 88:1-3, 6-7, 9-10, 13-15] and, after the enjoyment thereof, may have it weakened and intermitted, through manifold distempers, sins, temptations, and desertions;[Psalm 22:1, 31:22, 51:8, 12, 77:1-12; Song of Solomon 5:2-3, 6] yet they are never left without such a presence and support of the Spirit of God as keeps them from sinking into utter despair.[Psalm 73:15, 23; Isaiah 54:7-10; 1 John 3:9]"

Quotations taken from the Westminster Large Catechism

Blessings ...

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



loveineffable -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/13/2008 5:39:32 AM)

God is true, loving, merciful, and is totally faithful to the word left to us the children
God being true to the word left to us saves the person that has and does believe in him and his saving work through his son.

My sister believed died at 18, was on an overdose of drugs. Yet their was signs of changing her mind from unbelief to belief, and their was signs of her leaving drugs behind before the overdose.
Now I am not the judge, God, the creator of all is this judge. God knew and knows her, I believe she believed and is with him forever in peace with The Father of us all.

Now I could find out differant when I get their and it could be she did not believe and is not there.
I trust The creator, The Father of Jesus, Jesus, the Holy ghost all as one yet in differant forms. That whatever deciscion is made is, pure, perfect and correct.

So please be at peace, knowing God will judge all righteously, not deservingly. For if he did it by deserving . noone will make it to salvation, except by perfectness. And we all know there is only one perfect that was here on earth, showing us to learn to become dependant on his Father. Thus through this dependancy we will love him and our neighboer as ourselves. thus through this we are made perfect, by Son.
So seek to be dependant on your heavenly Father, through his one and only perfect Son, thus being saved through belief in himand waht he has done for you.


Ineffable love



GraceBro -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/13/2008 11:51:53 PM)

Anybody who believes you can lose salvation, or never be sure about it, doesn't know what salvation is.

Salvation is the restoration of the life of God we lost in Adam. When Adam was created in the Garden of Eden, God breathed into him the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). This was the very life of God that made Adam a living being. But, God warned Adam that on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would "surely" die (Genesis 2:17). Well, we know that Adam did eat from the tree and died spiritually. The life of God was removed from Adam and he became spiritually dead in sin. Since Adam didn't have any children at this point, all of mankind is born into this world in the image of Adam (Genesis 5:3), not in the image of God as is taught, dead to God, but alive to the world. God, in His love desired to once again indwell His creation. But, before He could do that He had to deal with the sin that caused that life to leave us in the first place. That is why Jesus, the only man born spiritually alive, had a life to give for our sins that would satisfy God for all eternity (1 John 2:2). Now, God is able to offer His life as a free gift, made possible through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, to all who accept Christ by faith (Romans 5:8-10). There is now no sin that could ever cause that life to leave again because of the eternal consequences of the cross (Hebrews 9:12). That is why the life we now have is an eternal life. A life that will carry us through the rest of our natural lives and on into eternity even after we physically die. That is the Gospel; sin, death, forgiveness, Life!

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5: 11-13

Grace and Peace



Theophile2 -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/14/2008 11:23:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GraceBro "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5: 11-13


Correct ... but just to clarify, that is each individual knowing about themselves ... not about someone else's salvation. For example: Mt 13:24-30.

Blessings.

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



GraceBro -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/15/2008 10:27:59 PM)

Not sure why you needed to "clarify" anything. I don't see where I said anything to the contrary.

Grace and Peace



Theophile2 -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/17/2008 9:44:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GraceBro

Not sure why you needed to "clarify" anything. I don't see where I said anything to the contrary.

Grace and Peace


I just wanted to clarify regarding your statement "or never be sure about it" ... some might take that to mean assurance of other people's salvation in addition to their own, which is an assumption they are not entitled to.

Blessings ....

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



gmc4Jesus -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/20/2008 5:08:33 PM)

How would I respond to the question of assurance of salvation.

The New Testament is so full of texts, it is hard to nail just one or two. Jesus reminds us that if we believe in Him, we have eternal life, signed by His blood on the cross, sealed by our believing in Him and delivered immediately unless we turn our back on Him and walk away.

Therefore, once we accept Jesus, we have eternal life immediately (dual citizens of heaven and earth). Since salvation is based on grace and not our works, as long as we love Jesus in our hearts, we remain in that salvation, even if our works sometimes fail us. God knows the believers heart and mind. He knows that we sometimes sin, but we still love Him (cf. David's affair with Bathsheba and murder of Urriah. Even in his sin, he still loved God.)

I choose to believe that my salvation is as secure as this morning's SONrise (which occured about 10 hours ago) and will walk in peace as I try to live my day in a way that honors God.

May God give you wisdom and blessing and peace as you walk with Him.



terryjohn -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/23/2008 4:01:49 PM)

You do get to a point were you no longer care wether you are saved or not and certainly all the dogmatic assurtions men make just do not cut it any more and I guess they should never had been good enough. I personally hate it being said, I am saved because the bible tells me so. Well anyone can say that and anyone can believe that but it does not make it so.

I once had a discussion with a good Christian friend of mine about assurance and he was stuck on the need to defend the dogmatic beliefs rather be comforted by his love for and faith in God alone. You see assurance was never meant to be a statement but a feeling, an emotion and all joy. Those who have the spirit of God call Him father and when others question their assurance of salvation they can only but stand confussed for they are trying hard to imagine being unsaved in the first place. That is they are trying to imagine not loving God. Now if any of us do not love God, we do not have his Spirit and we are not His and we shall die in our sins. Hence, we may well not be able to sleep until we find the peace that only His love brings. God forbids that there be no difference between the assurance men create for themselves and that the Spirit of God Himself brings.

The gospel is not about accepting God so you don't go to hell but about falling in love with Him who loves you more than you could ever imagine, Your Holy father.

To those who have to ask me am I saved, I would say why ask me foolish questions for if by my life and love you cannot tell, why would you believe me if I told you?



eschatologist -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (8/23/2008 10:12:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don675

I have a question about assurance of salvation.My brother who lives in
ILLINOIS is a christian and his son died on july 17,2008 of cancer in ILLINOIS[lives near ohare field].Many christians[pastors,etc.] counseled
with my nephew before he died. My nephew was raised in a christian home and made a proffesion of faith in CHRIST earlier and was responsive before he died to spiritual materrs.
My point is this my brother claims you cant really have assurance of
salvation before you die.I dont agee with that statement.I think he likes
to play devils advocate on things like this.In other words i make a
statement and he disagrees with it.
Any one care to adress this issue on assurance of salvation and verses
from the BIBLE?
DONK


"He that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.These things have I written unto you that believe in the name of the only begotton Son of God that ye may know that ye have eternal life and that ye may believe in the name of the only begotton Son of God. " You know that once you have Jesus you have life.


"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." (You have eternal life right now. You don't have to wait till you die to find out if you have eternal life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

"Verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life." (John 5) (Once you recieve Jesus you are immediatly passed from death unto Life.)

"I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hands." (John 10)

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day."

"And this is the will of Him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on Him may have everlasting Life and I will raise him up at the last day."

"I will never leave thee nor forsake thee."( You have Life because you have Jesus. Because Jesus is the Life. Once you have Life (Jesus) the Life will never leave you nor forsake you.)

"Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. " (This is Jesus speaking, and He's not lieing to you. He's telling the truth. Once you have recieved Jesus into your life, He promised that He will never leave you, He will always be with you, He will never cast you out, He will raise you up at the last day.)


"That by two immutable things in the which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation who who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the Hope that is set before us, which Hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast."

Therefore, "we can draw near in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience."( The Lord washes away our sins and badness by His blood sacrifice for us on the cross. Thank-you Jesus.



Thessa -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (9/7/2008 12:52:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don675

I have a question about assurance of salvation.My brother who lives in
ILLINOIS is a christian and his son died on july 17,2008 of cancer in ILLINOIS[lives near ohare field].Many christians[pastors,etc.] counseled
with my nephew before he died. My nephew was raised in a christian home and made a proffesion of faith in CHRIST earlier and was responsive before he died to spiritual materrs.
My point is this my brother claims you cant really have assurance of
salvation before you die.I dont agee with that statement.I think he likes
to play devils advocate on things like this.In other words i make a
statement and he disagrees with it.
Any one care to adress this issue on assurance of salvation and verses
from the BIBLE?
DONK


I think that if a person is led to believe they cant have assurance of salvation before they die - then thats probably true, for them.
Because to have assurance in what Jesus gives you when you accept Him into ur heart and repent ur sins - it takes faith. It takes knowing that He gave it to you and it takes faith for you to believe you have it.
Otherwise - ur brother is right. He dosent have it.



abraxas -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (9/10/2008 1:41:21 PM)

He doesn't have assurance, or he doesn't have salvation?



Don675 -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (9/15/2008 8:46:41 PM)

THESSA,
I am saying my brother is making a statement that you cannot know
for sure that you are saved by putting your faith in JESUS CHRIST.


donk don675



Don675 -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (9/19/2008 6:21:08 PM)

Anyone care to answer what my brother said in my last response?


DONK



theredhog -> RE: SALVATION ASSURANCE (9/23/2008 8:34:20 PM)

How could one ever grow and mature in their walk with God if they doubt their salvation? This is really kind of confusing. Maybe it depends on what their faith is in. Is it in our faith? Or, is it in the fact that it is the plan/desire of God that we are saved?

We will probably always be evaluating our relationship and our "santification." I don't think that has to mean we have to doubt our salvation, though. I remember as a child saying the sinners prayer, several times, to "see" if it would work LOL. I don't know what I was expecting.

When I was really convicted by the Holy Spirit I was relieved to yeild to Him. Haven't doubted it since. It almost seems that we think we have to "persuade" God to save us when that was His plan all along. It's why Jesus came. He loves us.

Instead of thinking "did I do it right." Think He did it right! I think one can be sure of that. We may not find much peace in placing our faith in anything we do. Probably what scares us, too, are the scriptures Jesus and Paul used to try to impress on the chosen people of God not to rely on their own self righteous works for their righteousness but the redeeming work of the cross. Examining ourselves to see that we are in the faith is a good thing, if we find self righteousness, what will we do with it? Who are we out to lift up? Can we be profitable to the kingdom of God if we are self righteous? No, we become worthless and we create other worthless(to the cause of the kingdom) cookie cutter church goers who doubt their salvation. Faith works by love. IF we know God loves us and salvation is His plan for us...what is there to doubt?

"In my hands no price I bring, simply, to Thy cross I cling"

redhog



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