Deathbed Confessions

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Page1940 -> Deathbed Confessions (8/7/2008 8:24:18 PM)
I was in a discussion in a Wed. night service and my pastor was giving us 7 points on who "I AM" is. Here are some of the scriptures that was used:John 6:35 - I AM the Bread of Life; John 8:12 - I AM the Light of the World; John 10:9 - I AM the DOOR; John 10:11 - I AM the GOOD Shepherd. Our discussion led to the usage of these scriptures to prove Salvation. My statement was: IF this is literally the truth, Then this, to me, disproves "deathbed confessions". It is logical to me that anyone who spent all of their life living for the devil, even though they knew about God and Jesus and how to be saved, but still refused to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, then that person who is on their deathbed, is now calling out "Oh God, or Jesus" and expects to be saved from eternal life in hell. This does not compute with me. That person, in their lifetime never repented, never showed any remorse, never showed any "fruit of the Spirit" and now all of a sudden they call out. There is scripture in Matthew 7:23 - "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness"; Luke 13:27 - "I tell you, depart from me, all you workers of iniquity"; Matt 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in Heaven. There are other examples that tells me that once a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, then he is a new creation, and he will do the works of the Father in Heaven. Therefore, in my opinion, a person who waits until they are about to take their last breath, has waited too long. Please do not remind me of the thief on the cross. That is not a good and proper analogy since we did not even have Pentecost yet. Therefore, the Christian church had not been established yet, and the people were still under the Law and not under Grace. I would appreciate some feedback on this issue. If I am wrong in my thinking, then I will apologize to Jesus. Thank you!

GraceBro -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/7/2008 10:10:03 PM)
So when is a "confession" of faith legitimate? The will of the Father is that He is patient not wanting anyone to perish. Regardless of whether someone expresses saving faith in Christ just prior to dying, as a child or somewhere in between, it is accepted by God. The idea I get coming across in your post is that someone has to have lived a long life as a Christian doing works, acceptable to you, as evidence of their salvation. That does not line up with Scripture. Throwing out the thief on the cross because it doesn't line up with your theology only gives evidence that your theology is not biblical. A Christian is a new creation. Just because they die shortly after accepting Christ does not change that fact. "The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.' "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?' "So the last will be first, and the first will be last." Matthew 20:9-16 Grace and Peace

URForgiven -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/8/2008 8:36:35 AM)
Is it Christ who works in us, or is it us that works to earn Christ? If it is our works, how many and how much time would we need to spend working our works in order to be made acceptable to God? Instead of being resentful that someone came to Christ on their deathbed, I should think we would rejoice along with the angels in Heaven that another had been saved from the clutches of the enemy. Peace

JimboFletch -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/8/2008 8:45:36 AM)
While the one thief on the cross was definitely saved, I used to wonder about deathbed confessions a lot and so I asked my FIL, who has been a pastor more than 60 years. He said that he's seen enough deathbed confessions to doubt that the majority of them are real because he has seen several people with such "conversions" survive the crisis and regain their health only to return to their old way of life without any hint of being born again. It is possible for one to be saved near death's door, but more than likely it is probably another case of "sorry I got caught" than true repentance. In the end, only God knows.

GraceBro -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/8/2008 11:35:22 PM)
I would only caution that before one writes off a deathbed conversion as "more than likely" another case of "sorry I got caught", that these survivors be asked what there understanding of salvation was to begin with. With all do respect to the pastor, just because he has preached for 60 years doesn't mean he understands, or has been communicating, the fullness of the Gospel during all those years. And, furthermore, these people who expressed faith in Christ, may have remained babes for a long time, never maturing in the faith. Therefore, they may resemble more of the world, but it doesn't mean they aren't in the faith. I am not trying to argue or be disrespectful. I am just trying to say there could be an alternative. Grace and Peace

Page1940 -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/9/2008 12:25:48 AM)
Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my inquiry. I think I need to make myself a little more clear regarding this subject. I worked for 20 + years as a nurse and I have seen a lot of my patients die from their conditions. Since retirement, I have had the opportunity to minister to many different kinds of people, male and female, saved and unsaved, and different ethnic backgrounds. I have had 2 years of Bible College, but that still does not make me an expert. I have posed this question to many pastors of different denominations. I have received many different viewpoints on this topic, but it seems that most of the responses deals with the human "feelings and emotions" of not wanting to believe that God would allow someone to take their last breath, just because they said, "Oh God" or said the name of "Oh Jesus". How do we know that this isn't their way of just using God's name in vain? You see, the Bible is very specific in John 3:5-6 - Jesus says in His teachings that "Verily, Verily, I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit." Now, either Jesus is a liar and needs to apologize to everyone, or Jesus and God changes their mind and that makes them wishy, washy. I, personally, have been at the bedside of friends and acquaintances and have tried to minister to them about accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. Some have done so; others have not. The Bible is very specific about the ABC's -- admit you are a sinner, believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior, and confess or repent of your sins. IF a person takes their last breath before they have had the chance to do this in front of a witness, THEN, there is no salvation for them. We, as human beings don't like the thought that maybe one of our loved ones has died before they took the opportunity to do this in front of someone who can be a witness to their moment of contrite confession. I have also attended many funerals of people that I have known for a long time, or for a short time, and I have witnessed how devastated the families are because they do not know if their loved one was saved or not. They want to believe that their loved one has gone to Heaven because this makes them feel better in their grief. That is why it is so very important that we , as followers of Christ, must do everything in our power to reach the lost. We will be held accountable when we die and God asks us how many did you witness to about Me. My heart goes out to those who are dying or near death. Cancer, Alzheimer's Disease, and many other diseases that the human race must suffer through. Satan is just waiting around the corner to grab these people and these so-called last second "deathbed confessions" just might not be enough. Think about this! My love to all of you in Christ Jesus, may you all be blessed!

GraceBro -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/9/2008 2:01:25 AM)
Your experiences and all the opinons of those you have asked does not make your beliefs true. Only God knows the heart. It doesn't matter what they say while they are dying or if there are witnesses to their conversion. All that matters is faith. It seems that you are making yourself the final arbitor of ones salvation based on your preconceived beliefs about how they receive Christ or when they receive Christ. A born again experience is an instantaneous act of faith. God does have an opinon on this matter and His opinion is that "to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God... (John 1:12)" All that is required is to understand your condition of spiritual death and accept God's one and only provision of spiritual life in Chrst. From what you're suggesting there is a time frame associated with accepting salvation, as if, someone may have waited too long before God accepts their repentance. That is just not biblical. Once a person dies, there chances are over, but up until that last breath Jesus is standing at the door of their heart knocking. You paint a picture of a very unforgiving and unloving God who runs out of patience. What if the person who is dying has never heard of Christ prior to their deathbed? From what you are saying that doesn't matter and have not offered one piece of scripture to support your opinion. From your perspective we should only witness to the healthy because those who are sick and dying are only accepting Christ as a fire insurance policy. When in fact, in most cases, it is only after we have been stripped of our own resources that we finally understand how fleeting and useless this life is. Thus, our hearts are prepared to accept the Lord. Also, one must define the term deathbed, which opens up another can of worms. Does it only apply to people in hospitals? How about someone in a hospice? Is there an age requirement? What if someone accepts Christ Sunday morning and on the way home from church they are killed. Does that count? What is more encouraging than to give someone the hope that although their bodies are failing and their life is soon to come to and end, they will wake up in the presence of Jesus Christ? That is the Gospel of salvation that brings hope and joy. Not the "too little, too late" Gospel that you seem to be presenting. That is why the thief on the cross throws a monkey wrench in this false Gospel. "Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]" Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:42-43 Today is the day of salvation. Therefore, you can make the argument that we are all on our deathbeds. Death is imminent for everybody. Just because we aren't looking at it in the face doesn't mean its not close. That is why it is imperative to preach the Gospel, not because accepting on your deathbed nullifies its validity, but because nobody is promised another day on this earth. Grace and Peace

mvic -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/9/2008 8:26:17 AM)
Regardless of our views on the matter, at the end of the day, the final decision on whether someone is saved or not does not rest with you, or me, but it rests with God. Only He decides, whose confession is genuine or not. Who is saved and who is not. Our role, as you say, is to "do everything in our power to reach the lost. We will be held accountable when we die and God asks us how many did you witness to about Me."

JimboFletch -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/11/2008 2:30:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GraceBro I would only caution that before one writes off a deathbed conversion as "more than likely" another case of "sorry I got caught", that these survivors be asked what there understanding of salvation was to begin with. With all do respect to the pastor, just because he has preached for 60 years doesn't mean he understands, or has been communicating, the fullness of the Gospel during all those years. And, furthermore, these people who expressed faith in Christ, may have remained babes for a long time, never maturing in the faith. Therefore, they may resemble more of the world, but it doesn't mean they aren't in the faith. I am not trying to argue or be disrespectful. I am just trying to say there could be an alternative. Grace and Peace Unless you think the Gospel is different than the one in the Bible, then he preaches the same one you believe. I submit that those same scriptures declares that at rebirth, old things pass away and ALL things become new. If someone mouths the words of a "sinners prayer" but isn't changed a wit, never wants to be around other believers, and hasn't the slightest interest in the Bible or even in baptism, then you have, according to the teachings of Jesus, a tare, a phony, a lost sinner. I also submit that no genuine believer that has been snatched from the jaws of death and Satan will remain "babes" for years and decades. That is some kind of cheap-easy-believism that does not resemble any conversion in the NT. I further submit that when we are commissioned into the arny of the Lord, we are all active duty soldiers. There are no secret agents in His service that resemble the world while being in the faith.

GroupW -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/11/2008 3:01:42 PM)
Personally, I find both GraceBro's, mvic's and Jimbo's answers all to reflect the truth to one degree or another. On the one hand, as GraceBro correctly notes, God does not despise a repentant heart. He doesn't couch his promise of grace within a time frame or set an expiry date that's X number of days/hours/minutes before your own personal expiry. On the other hand, I've never given much credence to a "fire insurance" view of salvation/repentance. No doubt, Jimbo is right that a certain proportion of these types of conversions are no more than "fire insurance" and not related to a recognition of one's own sinfulness and repentance. Mvic is also correct that whether or not a person's deathbead decision is real or not can only be discerned by God. If you step back and look at it, I think the three of you are actually saying the same thing but with a focus on some of the different aspects and unique questions posed by a decision for God in the waning hours of one's life. Personally, we watched my uncle (who had been a lifelong agnostic) die of emphysema. He was deathly afraid of falling asleep in his final days for fear he would not wake up. At some point during his final struggle, his heart was changed, and that changed his approach to death. He slept, he rested, and died in peace. The difference pre- and post- decision was remarkable. I don't know what to make of that, but based on what was seen during his passing I'd be the last one to doubt the reality and efficacy of his change of heart. I can't say that that I have confidence he's in heaven, but neither can I say that I know he's not. All I can say is that it made a visible difference and that God will be the only one who knows for certain.

mvic -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/11/2008 3:37:22 PM)
If I were a betting man, I'd say GroupW's uncle is in Heaven. If his heart changed and he accepted the existance of God, even if he didn't repent and confess his sins, that would have been enough to save him. Look at it this way. If it was your decision as a human; you would have welcomed this last minute change of heart. Even if he didn't say: "I'm sorry!" How much more merciful do you think God is, compared to us mere mortals?

Butterflytearz -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/11/2008 3:50:44 PM)
Repentance is repentance,, faith is faith,,, even at the time of death. Romans 10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

bob97 -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/16/2008 11:10:28 AM)
Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions. "Not everyone who calls out to Me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of My Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to Me, 'Lord! Lord! We prophesied in Your name and cast out demons in Your name and performed many miracles in Your name.' But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who break God's laws.' Mat 7:20 -23 You can say many things but if it is not of the heart it is meaningless! Bob

GraceBro -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/16/2008 2:23:36 PM)
quote: I also submit that no genuine believer that has been snatched from the jaws of death and Satan will remain "babes" for years and decades. That is some kind of cheap-easy-believism that does not resemble any conversion in the NT. I further submit that when we are commissioned into the arny of the Lord, we are all active duty soldiers. There are no secret agents in His service that resemble the world while being in the faith. This sounds good, but is more opinion than fact. There are plenty of people who never mature in the faith. They are quite content to sit in the pews their whole lives going through the motions never being able to say anything more about the Lord then reciting their testimony, parroting whatever it is that comes from the pulpit every sunday or aping the behavior of other so-called believers. I can't tell you how many Christians I have met, many on this forum, who can quote a theolog, a pastor or a historian, but can't relate what it is God is doing personally in their life. And these are people that would say they have been Christians for decades. Age, alone, and length of time within the Body of Christ has nothing to do with the level of maturity one has attained. Neither does being a pastor simply qualify someone as the best authority on teaching. We are all ministers of the New Covenant with the ability to go out and be a witness for the Lord. Only God knows who His Church is, so there very well could be "secret agents." Secret to us because of their immaturity, but known to the Lord. Just because you, I or anybody else doesn't see evidence we are willing to accept as proof of their conversion doesn't mean they aren't Christians. Besides, a deathbed conversion won't bear much, if any fruit, because they are dead now. Grace and Peace

cognitivemagic -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/21/2008 4:36:03 AM)
I hope and pray that each one of us has a "deathbed confession"; especially so, if you believe that "salvation" and "grace" are unmerited favors of God. Or do you think that your faithfulness and obedience are now qualifications to enter the Kingdom of God? Remember these words of our Lord: quote: For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. Now when he had agreed with laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you". So they went. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, "Why have you been standing here idle all day?" They said to him, "Because no one hired us." He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive." So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, "Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first." and when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received a denarius. And when they received it, they complained against the landowner, saying "These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day." But he answered one of them and said, "Friend, I am doing no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give this last man the same as to you. Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good? So the last shall be first and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen." --Matt. 20:1-16 So let those who arrive at the 11th hour come without shame....for in the end, all men arrive at the 11th hour. And may our prayer be, like the thief on the cross, up to our last breath: "Remember me, O Lord, in your Kingdom" which is really: "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner"

terryjohn -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/23/2008 4:17:13 PM)
You have judged men and would deny them the grace of God. If God should grant any man His grace at so late a date would you be angry with God because of His generousity and love? The danger is that with such thinking we would be more likely to with hold the gospel from the dying simply because we see their death as Gods judgment on them already. I once saw a news item of how a British soldier was killed by an angry catholic mob in Northern Ireland only to see a catholic priest brave the mob to go to the dying man to give him his last rights. Now I am not catholic or believe in any of their teachings but if such people will believe such is worth doing for someone they believe is a heritic and enemy, I am also willing to present the gospel to the same as they die hoping all along to meet them in paradise for I could only hope that I would do unto others what I would hope they would do unto me. Better late than never!

cognitivemagic -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/25/2008 4:27:11 PM)
quote: You have judged men and would deny them the grace of God. If God should grant any man His grace at so late a date would you be angry with God because of His generousity and love? The danger is that with such thinking we would be more likely to with hold the gospel from the dying simply because we see their death as Gods judgment on them already. I once saw a news item of how a British soldier was killed by an angry catholic mob in Northern Ireland only to see a catholic priest brave the mob to go to the dying man to give him his last rights. Now I am not catholic or believe in any of their teachings but if such people will believe such is worth doing for someone they believe is a heritic and enemy, I am also willing to present the gospel to the same as they die hoping all along to meet them in paradise for I could only hope that I would do unto others what I would hope they would do unto me. Better late than never! Amen, Amen!!

JimboFletch -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/27/2008 8:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GraceBro This sounds good, but is more opinion than fact.... The clear teaching of Jesus is that if one is redeemed they are born again, and when they are born again, they change. Scripture is clear, no change, no new birth occurred. The NT even gives a couple analogies: the washed pig returning to its mud hole and the dog returning to its vomit - if a new nature is given by God, then you have a new creation - not perfect but certainly not the same. To assert one can remain the same after conversion sounds good to the fleshly desire for religion without commitment, but it is what is called cheap-easy-believism, form without substance, profession of faith without conversion. That, friend, isn't opinion, it's biblical teaching (i.e. fact).

cognitivemagic -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/29/2008 5:49:50 AM)
JimboFletch: You must have missed the scripture that I cited. You said: quote: The clear teaching of Jesus is that if one is redeemed they are born again, and when they are born again, they change. Scripture is clear, no change, no new birth occurred. The NT even gives a couple analogies: the washed pig returning to its mud hole and the dog returning to its vomit - if a new nature is given by God, then you have a new creation - not perfect but certainly not the same. To assert one can remain the same after conversion sounds good to the fleshly desire for religion without commitment, but it is what is called cheap-easy-believism, form without substance, profession of faith without conversion. That, friend, isn't opinion, it's biblical teaching (i.e. fact). There are, in some ways, areas where I'm sympathetic to what you are saying. However, your statement undermines "faith" with skepticism. Like when you say: "sounds good to the fleshly desire for religion without commitment" To me, this sounds like something taken straight out of John MacArthur's book "The Gospel According to Jesus"; so I will address MacArthur directly in my analysis. The problem is with speaking of "fleshly desire" in relation to other people. How does MacArthur extract himself from criticisms like: Commitment to living the Gospel, and abhorring easy believe-ism, sounds good to the fleshly desire for a religion of self-righteousness or Appealing to the scripture sounds good to the fleshly desire for a religion that needs to justify condemning others....and to make profits off of books that "refute" easy believe-ism. What is MacArthur going to say to all this? That he, by his own laurels, could not possibly be "fleshly"; that somehow, he stands above all the temptations and struggles to sin? And even if he was above all earthly temptations and desires to sin, does that, for that reason, give him the right to stand in judgment of others? If John MacArthur holds this high opinion of himself, so as to be able to judge other men, then mark my words carefully: It will only be a matter of time when his own "sin" is exposed before the people. As the scripture says: "A haughty spirit comes before a fall"--Proverbs 16:18 and "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known"--Luke 12:1,2

JimboFletch -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/29/2008 9:51:59 AM)
quote: To me, this sounds like something taken straight out of John MacArthur's book... I've never read any of MacArthur's books. I just don't find where scripure teaches of stillborn believers that remain unchanged after being born again, redeemed by the blood of God the Son, and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit. The scripture, in fact, teaches the contrary: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." If McArthur's book affirms that, then we're in agreement.

PastorPatricia -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (8/30/2008 8:44:56 PM)
It is my firm belief that I'll be surprised by who's in heaven and they'll be surprised to see me. We can't put God in a box or really know who is and who is not saved and God's love and patience is vastly greater than ours.

solomonsprayer -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (9/3/2008 9:20:38 AM)
First, I agree that we need to look at this from God's perspective and see Him as a wonderfully loving Father who desires all to be saved and for all to repent and accept Christ and follow Him. Even an earthly father would not begrudge his own son for repenting and turning toward's good again at death (by the way, did you ever watch *Star Wars...where Darth Vader* turned good at the end?), as long as the son genuinely meant it. Every father would be joyed beyond belief. It would be the most important thing to that Father. In terms of whether or not the conversions are genuine, that is only for God to know, but not for us to judge. One other way to see things too, for those who may think it "unfair" to be saved at the last moment after a life of sin, is that perhaps the person suffered many many little consequences for his/her sins that God allowed up until that point we do not know of. It may not be that the heathen just lived in complete worldly pleasures and then said, "Ok, I'm sorry," and then go to everlasting paradise/joy in Heaven. Even if it is the guilt and pain of conscience...constantly living with emotional pain, etc. for past sins, that may be a kind of justic we do not know of. Or perhaps they simply felt all of the grief in one huge blow to their heart on the death bed and it was very painful and induced true remorse. Again, it's hard to tell, but we should not assume that it's a completely "get-out-of-jail/Hell" free-ticket so to speak to get to Heaven. ...There may have been things in that person's life we do not know of where they slowly slowly started to turn towards God from little pains and sufferings here and there leading up to that final conversion. I think a lot of it has to do with the state of a person's heart, which is more important than anything else. Only God can judge and know whether a person has been converted in the heart. And if so, and it is genuine, then we should not have any problems with it as a father on Earth would be proud and joyous (Was Luke Skywalker not proud when Vader changed at the last moment?...). In the meantime, I agree too that we ought to do everything we can to help these individuals like a father or shepard seeking a lost child/sheep. [:)]

bob97 -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (9/3/2008 12:47:12 PM)
Kind of like the person who kind of likes the life they are living but in the back of their mind are saying...just as soon as I see the bullet coming, I'll repent and ask forgiveness. [8D] Bob

supernova1976 -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (9/3/2008 9:55:40 PM)
What about the criminal on the cross that Jesus welcomed into paradise?

bob97 -> RE: Deathbed Confessions (9/4/2008 1:24:36 PM)
It's all in you heart...if your confession comes from the heart it counts, otherwise......... Bob

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