Question about tobacco (Full Version)

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AboundinginHisGrace -> Question about tobacco (8/6/2008 10:55:56 PM)

I do not smoke(quit 8 years ago) or chew/dip do not intend on ever doing it. I quit personally because I was convicted by it. But I see a lot of people that use "your body is the temple" verse to say it is wrong. Do you all think that is taking that verse out of context. In your opinion do you think it is sinful? I have mixed feelings about it. The Holy Spirit convicted me of it, but I do know some great men of God that do use tobacco. Even throughout history, C.S. Lewis, Spurgeon etc... I was just wondering your opinion on this subject.



BibleL7 -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:19:33 AM)

Well before the experts started saying it was unhealthy and caused cancer many athletes and well known people smoked without it being a problem. Thus it would not have been considered harming the temple. And given that smoking can effect different people in different ways many do not consider it sin. It is not stated clearly as a sin and many who feel that smoking is helpful to their nerves would not ever consider it sinful. Dont know about chewing been a smoker all my adult life.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 7:40:45 AM)

I don't know about it being a sin...it is bad for you.



DaveW -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 8:55:12 AM)

Sin is whatever falls short or misses the mark of God's glory. "For all have sinned and fall short..."

I would take smoking as sinful.



URForgiven -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 9:02:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

I do not smoke(quit 8 years ago) or chew/dip do not intend on ever doing it. I quit personally because I was convicted by it. But I see a lot of people that use "your body is the temple" verse to say it is wrong. Do you all think that is taking that verse out of context. In your opinion do you think it is sinful? I have mixed feelings about it. The Holy Spirit convicted me of it, but I do know some great men of God that do use tobacco. Even throughout history, C.S. Lewis, Spurgeon etc... I was just wondering your opinion on this subject.


I think for you it was, and that your response was correct. With all we know today about tobacco and the effects of its use, one thing we can say with certainty is that its use is just plain stupid. And I say this as an ex smoker myself.

Unfortunately, I do not see God saying anywhere that stupidity is a sin, although perhaps it should be. [;)]

Romans 8:6
"The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace"

The bottom line is that anything that controls me, outside of Christ, is a problem.

Peace



stampinlady -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 9:11:59 AM)

quote:

The bottom line is that anything that controls me, outside of Christ, is a problem.


Amen.



stamper_ben -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 9:18:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Sin is whatever falls short or misses the mark of God's glory. "For all have sinned and fall short..."

I would take smoking as sinful.

WHAT?

Wouldn't breathing the air around us fall short of the mark also because it is polluted with chemicals? The food we eat unless it is totally organic?

Isn't ALL we do sinful since it ALL misses the mark? I mean, we are not Christ Himself, are we?



psende -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 10:03:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

I do not smoke(quit 8 years ago) or chew/dip do not intend on ever doing it. I quit personally because I was convicted by it. But I see a lot of people that use "your body is the temple" verse to say it is wrong. Do you all think that is taking that verse out of context. In your opinion do you think it is sinful? I have mixed feelings about it. The Holy Spirit convicted me of it, but I do know some great men of God that do use tobacco. Even throughout history, C.S. Lewis, Spurgeon etc... I was just wondering your opinion on this subject.


Judging by this passage, they could be right.
quote:

If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss . . . . Do you not know that you are a temple of God? (I Cor 3:15a, 16a)


Seriously though; if I use the "temple" passage to prove that smoking is sinful, it seems that I would be obligated to keep my body in as perfect condition as it could possibly get. That would include weight-lifting, running, stretching, diet control (only "healthy" food) and whatever else there might be that would ensure as perfect physical conditioning as possible. So I guess (perhaps out of necessity--I'm not at my physical best) that this verse, used for this purpose, is out of context.

Although smoking is not the healthiest thing you can do, I don't see it as sinful behavior, in and of itself. And with smoking, there is no loss of senses that might lead to sinful behavior.

Just the opinion of politically incorrect non-smoker.



JimboFletch -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 10:13:17 AM)

Even if there were no adverse health effects from intentionally using tobacco and not even a tiny sin, the fact that longterm use is an addiction should cause one to consider finding a way to get free from its iron grasp. Many tobacco users simply try to maintain their level of nicotine to avoid withdrawal - that begins between 45 minutes and an hour after the last use - and not from any desire to burn a noxious weed 20 or so times a day for any true enhancement of life.

Day 708 nicotine-FREE, Day 805 tobacco-FREE



WildByNature -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 12:53:38 PM)

quote:

Even if there were no adverse health effects from intentionally using tobacco and not even a tiny sin, the fact that longterm use is an addiction should cause one to consider finding a way to get free from its iron grasp.


The same can also be said about caffeine.

Thus such an argument as "control" or "addiction" to purport smoking as a sin would be to argue that drinking beverages such as coffee, soda, etc ... (or, even eating chocolate) would be a sin. [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]

The real question should be, at what point are we making our body an idol and worshipping it? That would be the real sin.

IMHO, the "body is a temple" passage is conveniently taken out of context when it comes to smoking. Try using it on a coffee drinking Christian or your Christian friend at the health club as they're sipping their power drink. LOL



JimboFletch -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 12:58:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WildByNature

quote:

Even if there were no adverse health effects from intentionally using tobacco and not even a tiny sin, the fact that longterm use is an addiction should cause one to consider finding a way to get free from its iron grasp.


The same can also be said about caffeine.

You either have never been addicted to nicotine or you are in denial.

The level of control by nicotine has no comparison to caffeine - this from an ex-Navy man who used to drink copious amounts of coffee but never controlled by it like nicotine does.



DaveW -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:09:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:

Sin is whatever falls short or misses the mark of God's glory.

WHAT?

Wouldn't breathing the air around us fall short of the mark also because it is polluted with chemicals?

Isn't ALL we do sinful since it ALL misses the mark? I mean, we are not Christ Himself, are we?
Is it to God's glory that you suffocate from holding your breath? The bible is full of passages about wanting us to live and not die. There are plans for us, there are ministries for us, there are things we have to learn. To do that we need to be breathing. So it would seem IMO that in order for you to walk in God's glory (growing up and serving him as a good and faithful servant) requires you to breathe so breathing has more of God's glory and hits HIS mark much better than asphixiation.

Does growing up in Him and being His servant miss the mark? I don't think so.



rcjames -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:11:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BibleL7

Well before the experts started saying it was unhealthy and caused cancer many athletes and well known people smoked without it being a problem. Thus it would not have been considered harming the temple. And given that smoking can effect different people in different ways many do not consider it sin. It is not stated clearly as a sin and many who feel that smoking is helpful to their nerves would not ever consider it sinful. Dont know about chewing been a smoker all my adult life.


So since some are not affected then it is OK.

I met a guy who shot himself in the forehead in a suicide attempt. Used a .38, the bullet went under the skin circled the skull and ended up in the back. Had a headache, EMT removed the bullet.

Now would you suggest that it is alrignt to shoot yourself in the head with a .38?

Thsnks
RC



deermousie -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:40:21 PM)

1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.


We as Christians have tremendous liberty. Smoking can be addictive, and this verse tells me Paul avoided addictions. I would see that as the person who hated smoking and couldn't stop smoking two packs a day.

To a person who smokes moderately and enjoys it, I see no problem. Yeah, it's not the best thing for them, but you don't see people getting all upset when someone eats an ice cream cone and denouncing them from the pulpit, either.



stamper_ben -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:46:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:

Sin is whatever falls short or misses the mark of God's glory.

WHAT?

Wouldn't breathing the air around us fall short of the mark also because it is polluted with chemicals?

Isn't ALL we do sinful since it ALL misses the mark? I mean, we are not Christ Himself, are we?
Is it to God's glory that you suffocate from holding your breath? The bible is full of passages about wanting us to live and not die. There are plans for us, there are ministries for us, there are things we have to learn. To do that we need to be breathing. So it would seem IMO that in order for you to walk in God's glory (growing up and serving him as a good and faithful servant) requires you to breathe so breathing has more of God's glory and hits HIS mark much better than asphixiation.

Does growing up in Him and being His servant miss the mark? I don't think so.

I knew there was a reason I hesitated to come into this discussion...

You missed my point. What about the food you eat? What chemicals are in the milk you drink, what hormones are injected into the meat you eat, what poisons are sprayed onto the vegetables you consume?

Where do we draw the line?

I take great umbrage at being told how much sin I am in because of my smoking habit. The offense comes because I am told this by others out there who are no better or worse than myself in regards to sin while living in this world. There's a verse or two regarding the speck in my eye being worked on by those with logs in their's.

So no, I as a current smoker take my direction on where my sin is and what I need to do about it from He who indwells me. His Spirit has dealt with several serious and harmful addictions since my bending my knees to Him. When He tells me I can no longer be His servant because of my smoking tobacco then I'll feel I've missed the mark. Until then I continue to grow in His love and guidance. I'm amused that there are those out there who feel all grown up in their own righteousness. For that's what it is, their's and not His.

I will bow out of this conversation. Again, I knew I shouldn't have entered into it.



Qtman -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 1:53:36 PM)

Don't go Mr. Ben. I may need back up before it is over with.(says one smoker to another)



bluestone -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 2:02:02 PM)

I have never smoked in my life, but have seen Christians pretty much run out of some churches because of their smoking. I think sometimes the church goes too far in beating people with brickbats over what actually are disputable matters.

Just Don't blow it in my face, insist on smoking around me, or throw the butts in my yard. Your preference to smoke should not exceed my preference not to.[;)]



Qtman -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 2:12:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

I have never smoked in my life, but have seen Christians pretty much run out of some churches because of their smoking. I think sometimes the church goes too far in beating people with brickbats over what actually are disputable matters.

Just Don't blow it in my face, insist on smoking around me, or throw the butts in my yard. Your preference to smoke should not exceed my preference not to.[;)]



I totally agree. As a matter my wife does not smoke and smoke bothers her pretty bad. I do not smoke in either of our vehicles and I have not smoked in our home in over 30 years. I believe it is called respect and courtesy. BTW this statement can be verified by some of the posters here who have actually been in my house. Shar-Mar is one.[:D]



bob97 -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 2:55:54 PM)

We all better give up diet coke and potato chips…these items will kill you too, just not as fast.

Personally I don’t smoke, don’t drink diet coke and eat very few potato chips.

Bob



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 2:56:20 PM)

Well, my word . . . it's amazing what one finds when they click on a thread out of curiosity . . . I never thought I'd see my name in a thread about smoking. [:D]


Sam, there have been many things about you that have impressed me . . . everything from the wisdom you display, to your compassion, to your funny sense of humor.

And tucked away amongst all those things is your courtesy towards others regarding your smoking . . . in fact, while I have never told you this, I have certainly thought it a few times.

Y'all, he's telling the absolute truth . . . I've spent a week with him and Mrs. Qtman at their house. I've also spent quite a bit of time around them during another week when we had vacation cabins next to each other.

I have never seen him smoke inside any building (his house, our cabins, anywhere inside). Nor did I ever see him smoke inside a vehicle (and since he was my chauffeur the vast majority of both times, I would definitely have noticed LOL).

Additionally, when I have been outside with him while he was smoking, he was always mindful to smoke so that the wind would be blowing away from me and not towards me.

It was something I definitely noticed and very much appreciated.




I now return y'all to the subject of this thread.

[sm=redhairsmile.gif]



doinkdom -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 4:13:13 PM)

Yeah, it's bad for your body. No argument.

IMO, it isn't that you smoke, but what you think of those who do.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 9:24:36 PM)

If you can control your habit to the point you don't smoke indoors, then...

quit.

I smoked for 18 years. It took three years of literal hell to quit. In fact to give up smoking...which I had done a million times, I had to quit another vice...drinking. When ya drink, ya hafta smoke, so, I hadda quit drinking too.

So here it is 13 years later...and I found myself addicted once again. The why's, I know and that is another topic. However, I am now smoke free for a couple weeks.

It was hard.

Now, the thiungs I know are....smoking is NOT enjoyable. The pleasure you experience in smoking is your body craving the addiction..and you meeting it. When I started smoking again, I had to force myself to do so. It tastes nasty. It makes you tired. I would come home from work and last about an hour before I had to go to sleep..and would sleep ten hours....something I could never do before I started smoking.

Now, I have more energy. I am not spending 4 dollars a pack for smokes.

Quit. If someone like me can do it anyone can.



Liveloved -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 9:46:59 PM)

Yes, this verse is used out of context. If used in that way, we have way too many LARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGE temples in the United States since obesity is our BIGGEST health problem. Although smoking is not good for your health, it is not a sin.



h_seaton -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/7/2008 11:58:45 PM)

--Christians should be faithful stewards of what God has given them, and our body, money, and time, are not our own, but the Lord's. How can we justify wasting the money God gave us on cigarettes when smoking is a detriment to the body? Looking at the lungs of a person who has smoked for any length of time, we see that they are 'black' with the collection of this smoke pollution.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
1 Corinthians 19-20


--It is an extremely addictive substance which makes a slave out of those who use it. If we need to be calmed, we should not look to any other means except Christ.

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
1 Corinthians 6:12

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
Philippians 4:13

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."
2 Corinthians 12:9


--It is a bad witness for the cause of Christ,it can be harmful to others, and it is a cause for our weaker brethren to stumble. Even if something is lawful, but causes our weaker brethren to fall, we can not do it. We are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves... how can we say we love someone if we allow them to harm themselves by smoking.

"But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of:"
Romans 14:15-16

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:34-35



--Can we honestly say this is God Glorifying? Not with a straight face!


"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31




Therefore, it is without question, a sin.



Kath -> RE: Question about tobacco (8/8/2008 3:00:13 AM)

moving from General Faith to Morality/Ethics



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