RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 1:12:24 PM
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hotsaucygma
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Oops Joy beat me to it... I had to answer the phone in between typing my response and posting it... oh well.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 1:58:05 PM
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URForgiven
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Do we remember the Amish shootings? The man who barricaded himself in the schoolhouse and shot those innocent children? Do we remember how the Amish immediately forgave the shooter, and then went beyond that and offered support and forgiveness to his family?
I have many differences with the Amish and their beliefs, but that was, in my opinion, a true example of how we are to forgive. Whether their motivation was based on correct understanding makes no difference; the example they gave to the world, and to Christianity also, was a beautiful thing to see.
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 2:03:35 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
I think we have been duped into thinking forgiving is for us, when that is just not G-d's way of doing things.
If forgiveness is not for us, then who is it for?
Who did Jesus die for?
Us, hmmmm..........
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 2:04:59 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
If this is the case (speaking generally) then why does it matter if someone says "Please forgive me" vs. "I'm sorry"? We as Christians should have already forgiven them in our hearts. Their seeking forgiveness is merely a formality on the offenders part...or am I missing something?
That would be it exactly. It's an action of acknowledgment and goodwill.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 3:39:06 PM
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doinkdom
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I suppose we should also be asking (as in all things) what gives more glory to God?
Asking for forgiveness or telling someone we're sorry?
I guess the answer would also have to include the context of the statement.
Hmmm...just another thought
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 4:49:51 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I was wrote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Abiyah
Sometimes, I wonder how much modern psychology has so changed our theology so that we don't even recognize that what we are saying is not Scriptural. I don't write this to put anyone down, especially since I must admit that I have also believed that the act of forgiveness frees the forgiver, so it is "for us." My problem with that idea is that it is a throw-back to the me, me, me. It is selfish. . . .
I was answering not only the following post but also myself, because I have said the same thing, Darling:
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Forgiveness is not for other people, it's for us.
When we hold unforgiveness in our hearts, it doesn't poison them, it poisons us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Abiyah
I think we have been duped into thinking forgiving is for us, when that is just not G-d's way of doing things.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
If forgiveness is not for us, then who is it for?
Who did Jesus die for?
Us, hmmmm..........
It appears that the subject of the thread has been mixed up here. Is this thread about us forgiving others or about Messiah forgiving us? It is about us forgiving others, I understood. Messiah forgave us for our sakes and for that of the kingdom.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Forgiveness is not for other people, it's for us.
When we hold unforgiveness in our hearts, it doesn't poison them, it poisons us. . . .
Not pop psychology, pure demonstration from Jesus. Not scriptural? look again, please.
Could you give us that Scripture, please? The one that says we forgive for ourselves? Thank you.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 4:55:48 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Sometimes, I wonder how much modern psychology has so changed our theology so that we don't even recognize that what we are saying is not Scriptural. I don't write this to put anyone down, especially since I must admit that I have also believed that the act of forgiveness frees the forgiver, so it is "for us." My problem with that idea is that it is a throw-back to the me, me, me. It is selfish.
I forgive you for myself. There, I feel better. Now, I can proceed in health. Now, I am free.
Have we swallowed a selfish lie? I think we have.
Messiah, our example who said "do as I do," cries out on the cross, "Father! Forgive them! They don't realize what they are doing! (There, now I feel better. I can proceed in peace. I am free.)"
Certainly, G-d forgives for His Name's sake, but look at that: His Name is what brings health to His people -- He who forgives all our sins and heals all our diseases. "Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy."
When we have the attitude of forgiving for our own sake, are we not trying to be little gods? Making ourselves the most important ones in the forgiving process?
"Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you." This Scriptures doesn't have a trace of the same selfishness in it. It is the act of a humble heart, the act of giving place to another.
I think we have been duped into thinking forgiving is for us, when that is just not G-d's way of doing things.
You are absolutely right! Yes, forgiveness has been turned around (as have most things in the world today) and it has become for our comfort, so we feel good.
We are NOT to hold bitterness in our hearts. But forgiveness must be RECEIVED to be ACHIEVED and it is only RECEIVED following an admission of wrongdoing and repentance. That is why God has a condition on it. Man must repent to receive the forgiveness freely offered.
URForgiven's example of the Amish families in PA was a beautiful testimony of Christ's love in the midst of great tragedy. But we do the world a great disservice when we run to them saying 'I forgive you' when they have not confessed their wrongdoing. Surely we can love them, be kind to them and treat them with grace and mercy but there is no forgiveness apart from repentance. Just as the prophet cried about a superficial peace, I think we need to be crying about this superficial (make me feel good) forgiveness.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 5:02:13 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Are you saying we are to forgive before it is even asked of us?
I say yes. Forgiveness is something that takes place in the heart first.
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May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 5:36:22 PM
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magiceraserbrush
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kath saying I am sorry is not wrong if you really mean it but to some people it is just a word please forgive me Father for I have sin against my neighbor is better.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 5:41:07 PM
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magiceraserbrush
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hotsaucygma We all make mistakes tor that meaning God for give me for I have sinned. we are only human and we do make mistakes.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 5:46:01 PM
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magiceraserbrush
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URForgiven you are right to forgive is what God wants us to do To forgive is a place in God's book of Life.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 5:50:40 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
It appears that the subject of the thread has been mixed up here. Is this thread about us forgiving others or about Messiah forgiving us? It is about us forgiving others, I understood. Messiah forgave us for our sakes and for that of the kingdom.
I'm on the band wagon now.
I went back and reread to see if I was missing something.
I think both types of forgiveness (for lack of a better term) have been addressed. Or at least I have responded to both as I thought I understood others doing as well.
That evidently would be what we are seeing.
I wonder if we are way off topic?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 6:09:57 PM
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Kath
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quote:
According to the op, we are talking about forgiveness towards one another. Or at least that is my understanding.
Yes, and if saying I'm sorry is the same intent as asking forgiveness.
quote:
I wonder if we are way off topic?
Sort of. It isn't about Jesus forgiving us. Yes, we are suppose to forgive but the question is, is there a certain phrase we are to say. Isn't saying I'm sorry good enough? Do we have to ask forgiveness every time when just saying I'm sorry would do? (like even I'm sorry I broke your pencil, one would have to ask forgiveness if one is a Christian because only heathens say I'm sorry) Can't Christians say I'm sorry when they are sorrowful for something they've done? Do they have to ask forgiveness to or is it implied when they said I'm sorry? Isn't saying I'm sorry, and the other person says That's all right, isn't it the same thing, or not?
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/13/2008 6:24:13 PM
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deliveredarling
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That was much clearer, thank you.
Some things we can be sorry for don't require asking for forgiveness.
Like, if you bump someone in a hallway (a stranger), why would you ask forgiveness for that?
Wouldn't intent have a lot to do with the response of I'm sorry?
Your husband cheats on you, that requires asking for forgiveness,because a saying he is sorry will illicit this response, "you sure are!" 
In saying one is sorry, it doesn't necessarily mean an automatic request for forgiveness, IMO.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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