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I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 3:08:22 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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For those who don't know, I'll catch you up to speed as quickly as I can. My soon-to-be-ex was verbally abusive. DD is 15. She and I left him in Indiana and moved to CA last Nov. We haven't filed for a divorce yet and have no real custody arrangement set up. Her dad took a job in Chicago and moved there. Once we moved to CA she got into counseling and has come along way. She's no longer talking suicide and has made some really good friends.
She just got back from a few weeks of visiting him and he took her to visit her friends in IN.
This evening she was sitting on the porch talking to her cousin and a friend. I had just sat down to the computer, so I I was able to hear everything. I wasn't paying too much attention to the conversation until I heard dd say the words "I haven't told my mom yet..." Then I started eavesdropping.
She wants to go back to IN, to her old school and her old friends and live with them. Her dad said that he didn't think I'd go for that idea. He's right!
He came up with a different plan for her. She could live with him in Chicago. Since he works for an airline, he said that he'd fly her to Indianapolis every weekend and find a place for her to stay so that she could visit her friends every weekend and during the holidays. She loves the idea.
Has she forgotten about the many, many nights she cried herself to sleep over the names he called her, the yelling he did?
He works a swing shift with rotating days off. He's not going to be around to be a parent to her. Why would he make her this offer? He's not going to be around to enjoy her company. He hasn't worked on any of his anger issues so I do fear that she'll revert back to her suicidal ways.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 6:16:15 AM
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manda59
Posts: 6018
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From: Hampshire, UK
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(((((((( Roberta )))))))))
I don't know what to say. I'll be praying for you and may post later.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 7:41:14 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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Be sure tot alk about this with her counselor.
Yes, she has "forgotten". At 15, kids are still young enough where it doesn't take long for them to forget how bad things were and to believe that a person (or family) has changed, and that your parents will always come through for you. I was like that at 15 too. I was not stupid or not remembering... I was just an optimist and living in the moment.
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
W2D1
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 8:56:46 AM
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lexie
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(((Roberta)))
When I was a teenager, my father said some pretty harsh things to me that really hurt and made me cry often over it. And I remember that all I wanted I was for him to stop. So I kept seeing him thinking that that time would be different. And that time would be different, and then a few times later things would become the same thing again. So I can understand where your daughter is right now.
It's like Ellie-Mae said - teenage girls are optimists, and they believe that their parents will always come through for them and want to be there when they change because things will magically be all better.
I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you, but I wanted to let you know that I can understand your daughters side. And when she is an adult, she will thank you for everything you have done for her, and wish that she had listened to you. But until then, things might be hard for you to watch. I know that's how my mom felt sitting there watching me go through the range of emotions with my father.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 11:18:43 AM
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stampinlady
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From: Northern IL
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Roberta,
I'm so sorry to hear this. Dd needs her daddy. Has he changed and is there any chance of reconciling(sp?) I guess I would seek counsel.
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Deb
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 11:55:03 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
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She hasn't told me directly about this and she doesn't know that I know about it.
If it comes down to it, I'm not sure if I should fight it or not?
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 12:06:56 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2939
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From: Newberg, OR
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When she brings it up to you, talk to her about it and remind her (in a loving way) how your XH was, and that he hasn't gotten counselling to change. But, try to do it without badmouthing him, KWIM? And, then go from there.
Can you afford a lawyer? I don't really know about this kind of stuff, but I think 15 y/o can choose who they want to live with.
((((((((((((Roberta))))))))))))) My mom went through a similar thing when I told I wanted to live with my dad, but he was only 4 blocks away.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 12:09:43 PM
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pbaribeault
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It's really easy to imagine an ideal life. Flying all over, staying with friends, sleep overs and fun, freedom from supervision at home... It's easy to dream. Real life seems pale and frustrating. It's not about mom or dad. It's not about mom vs. dad. It's about being lonely, disconnected and purposeless. It's about the natural developmental time at which young people make deep and intense connections within their peer group.
Don't make it personal. She's not rejecting you or your care. She's just a kid with blinders on. You've got to be the best parent you can be, regardless.
And don't take it too seriously. Sometimes people cope with hard situations by trying to make them seem 'romantic' to their friends. This plan qualifies as 'romantic' and may well be exaggeration, imagination, wishful thinking... something she knows won't fly, and is not concrete to her. Just something to daydream about, expressed to a friend as a sounding board. Perhaps she hasn't really talked to her dad about it at all, or maybe she brought it up and he said he'd think about it or something.
Practically... Some questions need to cross her mind:
If good old dad can fly her anywhere any weekend, why can't he fly her from your place to see her friends? Why can't he come and visit her or bring her to visit him? Why hasn't he been seeing her more often? In short, why is he using his ability to transport her around to manipulate her into staying with him, instead of using it to enrich her life because he loves her? Why does he want her to stay with him anyways? What does he think he is winning? Or is it about control? Does she want to live with someone of such mixed motives?
Plus... How does she think she would do adjusting to yet another new school in Chicago? Will it be easy to keep up with her school work if she's flying every weekend? Does she really want to spend every weekend & holiday with friends, or maybe she would like to see mom once in a while, or stay with dad? Would dad really want her around more than after-school? What if he got frustrated some time? Will he ignore her? Yell? Take away her flying privileges? Send her away on a one-way ticket? Could she cope with that?
And... What about coping? What about suicide? What about support? Who does she know in Chicago if things start to go sour?
Bottom line:
When he starts showing that he's looking out for her, not just looking to win her over, you'll consider allowing him to have more time with her. His current offer only shows that he'll give her good gifts (that cost him nothing) but only if she joins him in rejecting you. That's not something that shows love, but the same control and manipulation that was abusive in the first place. It indicates a good danger that he will treat her just as badly as before. You are not going to risk that kind of damage to her.
So, for now, you've decided that she's starting school where you are, and will not be permitted to consider transferring to Chicago except when one semester is complete, before the beginning of another. She is free to consider the possibility in advance of each semester change and make a proposal to you if she thinks she can address your concerns... but that your decision depends a lot more on her father's expressions of good character, not so much on her own actions. You love her too much to consent to exposing her to hardship and abuse.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 12:11:12 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1026
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Yes, you should fight anything that you think has real potential to make your daughter suicidal.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 3:24:24 PM
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MrsTracy72
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
If good old dad can fly her anywhere any weekend, why can't he fly her from your place to see her friends? Why can't he come and visit her or bring her to visit him? Why hasn't he been seeing her more often? In short, why is he using his ability to transport her around to manipulate her into staying with him, instead of using it to enrich her life because he loves her? Why does he want her to stay with him anyways? What does he think he is winning? Or is it about control? Does she want to live with someone of such mixed motives?
BINGO!!!! Plus, where is she going to stay on those weekends, and with airlines being what they are, how long is he going to have this job? I am sorry, but if he did try to bring that one up in court, those are the questins that a judge or commissioner would be asking. If she is going to be living with him, and then he is going to send her off on weekends to be with friends, what about you? When is she going to come and visit YOU?
I hate parents who talk to the kids when they should be talking to the other parent. My ex does that all the time. He tells my son things and then doesn't have any regard for the outcome. It just sounds good at the time. PLUS with airlines being what they are today financially, I am sure that the free tickets (standby BTW) are going to diminish soon. AND the fact that they are standby won't guarantee that she is back in Chicago on Monday morning for school. Again, I hate it when parents take things to the kids when they should be talking to the other parent. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/1/2008 9:17:44 PM
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IonMoon
Posts: 955
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From: The Unted State of Confusion
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I would say wait and see.
I remember my own grandiose ideas as a kid and I know the things my kids have said (either to me or I heard about)... She may understand just as much as you do that it is an unrealistic idea. And your X might also know it is never going to happen. In fact... some spouses (and other daults, like my mil!) will say things like that, having no intention of following through, knowing the parent will veto just so they can be the good guy.
But, be thankful that you have the heads up. You can think it through and decide on a plan to challenge or concede and not be blindsided if they bring it up to you..
I was 12 when my parents divorced, and there were a few times I toyed with the idea of moving in with my dad. I never would have done it, but at times when I was mad at my mom, it made me feel better to know that option was available.
As for what to do... no advice. It will be rough either way. If she leaves, make sure she knows she can come home at any time for any reason, no questions asked. If she doesn't try to brainstorm other ways she can meet the needs she is expressing.
As for the courts, I believe the judge would take the child's input into consideration- I don't think they just flat out let the child decide. But definitely talk to a lawyer if you plan to fight your x.
Tara P
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 3:44:26 AM
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Roberta_
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From: East Bay Area
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She told me tonight. Her actual plan is to go live with our previous youth pastor and his wife. She wants to spend her junior and senior year there. Her dad is in agreement with it as are the youth pastor.
I told her no. I told her that until she graduates from high school that she has no choice but to live with myself or her father.
I explained to her that her father or I should be the ones raising her and that the youth pastor and his wife are only in their early 20s. They have been married less than a year. Taking on a teenager would be a much larger responsibility than they should have to take on right now. Also, when she went to stay with them, they did not obey the rules that I had written out and called them and talked to them about. (She had free reign of the Internet, was allowed to have boys over when they weren't home, had unlimited use of her cell phone and they let her stay out until midnight without an adult. I told them no Internet, I figured the issue of boys was "a given," cell phone turned in by 10 pm and curfew was 9 pm.)
She informed me that she wants nothing to do with me anymore and that she doesn't want me to be a mother in any way to her anymore. She never did love me and all I ever do is mess up her life. She was screaming, stomping, slamming doors, etc.
Tomorrow night we are having spaghetti and meatballs for supper- one of her favorites. (In fact, she requested it.) I wonder what she's going to have?
It's a bummer that she'll no longer be wanting an allowance so she'll have to give up that cell phone.
Friday night I have backstage passes for Martina McBride. It's a mother-daughter type of thing that we are doing with several of the neighbors. I have three passes for myself and my two dds. I know my 21 year old dd still thinks of me as her mother. Would anyone else like to be my dd for that night? 
She knows how words can hurt. She did that intentionally. I will admit that I am stricter than most moms, but I'm not quite the "Mommy Dearest" she has me made out to be.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 5:33:05 AM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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There's so much wrong with the youth pastor and his wife discussing this with her without you being in the loop. When she approached them, they should have told her they'd speak to you first.
Roberta, is there any chance she might run away and do this anyway without your consent?
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 8:03:09 AM
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Sadey
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Good for you mom, I love it when moms stand up to their kids and don't let them take over in the family. I hate it when outsiders, in your case the youth pastor and his wife, decide they can swoop in and save the day.
They interfere with the parent child relationship and have no idea the damage they do. Of course in your case they are young and seem to not have a lick of sense.
She'll get over it and of course it would be fun to live with youth pastor, gee, complete freedom.
Keep up the good mothering mom, it will pay off in the end, just remember you are older, smarter and probably bigger? then she is.
God bless you and your daughter. I'm glad you have an older daughter who likes you, thats always comforting. Just remember that your younger daughter will like you too someday 
< Message edited by Sadey -- 8/4/2008 8:42:21 AM >
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 9:09:37 AM
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isaacsmom
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(((((Roberta))))))). I don't have any advice, but I'm reading and praying.
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<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
pirtlefarm.blogspot.com
Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 10:17:57 AM
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pbaribeault
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You did the right thing in saying, "No" and enforcing limits... but I think you are getting a little reactive, with your comments about food, allowance and special events.
You know she needs you to be her mother.
As the adult in the situation, you need to strive for healing in the bigger picture, not retribution in the short-term. You are deeply hurt and it is an instinct to say, "So, you don't want me? Fine! See how you do without me!" But that's not healing. That's not bridge building. And it won't do you any good.
All it does is give more strength to the lies she half-believes, "My mom doesn't care about my happiness. She only cares about controlling me."
You need to tell her the opposite. You need to show her that you do love her and care about her happiness. That your decisions about the future are the best you can do to ensure that -- whether she agrees or not, you really want her to believe in her heart that you are doing it genuinely for that reason.
Teenagers hear a lot of 'love' messages through respect. Companionship works well too.
So, I'd make the spaghetti supper. When it's ready, go to her and specifically invite her. Tell her, "I know you are angry at me being a bit too much of a mommy these days. I did make the supper you were hoping for, because I am your mom and I like to do things that make you happy. I'm hoping for a nice meal with my children. Will you come and eat, even though you are still angry?"
Allowance too, "Honey, I've been giving you an allowance for a lot of years. I know you use this for your cell phone that you really enjoy. I provide for you not only the basic necessities of life, but also a few luxuries because it's one of the ways I express my love for you."
For the concert, I would give her her own ticket today, "Honey I bought this for you before you got angry with me, so it's yours, but now I'm not sure what you want to do about it. Are you in the mood for a date with your mom? It might be a good way to remember that there are things we enjoy about each other. If not, I understand. We can make up later, and I don't want to rush you. If you want to go on your own, I'll try to make that not as awkward as it could be, but it might be awkward, since I'll be there with your sister."
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/4/2008 9:03:55 PM
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shadowspring
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quote:
You need to tell her the opposite. You need to show her that you do love her and care about her happiness. That your decisions about the future are the best you can do to ensure that -- whether she agrees or not, you really want her to believe in her heart that you are doing it genuinely for that reason.
Teenagers hear a lot of 'love' messages through respect. Companionship works well too.
So, I'd make the spaghetti supper. When it's ready, go to her and specifically invite her. Tell her, "I know you are angry at me being a bit too much of a mommy these days. I did make the supper you were hoping for, because I am your mom and I like to do things that make you happy. I'm hoping for a nice meal with my children. Will you come and eat, even though you are still angry?"
Allowance too, "Honey, I've been giving you an allowance for a lot of years. I know you use this for your cell phone that you really enjoy. I provide for you not only the basic necessities of life, but also a few luxuries because it's one of the ways I express my love for you."
For the concert, I would give her her own ticket today, "Honey I bought this for you before you got angry with me, so it's yours, but now I'm not sure what you want to do about it. Are you in the mood for a date with your mom? It might be a good way to remember that there are things we enjoy about each other. If not, I understand. We can make up later, and I don't want to rush you. If you want to go on your own, I'll try to make that not as awkward as it could be, but it might be awkward, since I'll be there with your sister."
Yup. Pbari said it well.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/5/2008 4:02:10 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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I like that brother of hers.
BTW, you're absolutely right to yank away her priviledges. The cell phone, concerts, etc. have nothing to do with good mothering. They're priviledges, not essentials. You're not refusing to feed her...you're just refusing to fix dinner for someone quite capable of doing it herself.
No child has any business talking to you the way she did. Therefore, she has no business expecting internet, cell phone, favorite dinner, concert. When she's ready to accept the whole package you have to offer her, then she can have those back again.
You go, girl! You rock!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/5/2008 8:25:33 PM
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Sadey
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We all know that there are some children who with just a look can be brought into obedience and then there are the other ones. So depending on which she is you can decide whether you can be nice or be tough.
I have a hard time with kids talking terrible to their parents and would never put up with that. We certainly didn't talk to them that way and didn't let them treat us that way. I don't think it ever entered their minds to talk to us that way, if you knew their dad you'd understand.
I think the idea of the Carrie Underwood ticket is a good idea. You are such a nice good mom. The perfect combination of tough and tender.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/5/2008 9:44:10 PM
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W.O.F.
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praying Roberta!
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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Like Sadey said, keep up the good mothering!
Brothers can say so much more than mothers can. 
