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How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:17:13 PM
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Evangel70
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Many are warning the McCain campaign that going negative on Obama's character rather than campaining on his strengths and experience will tun off independents and hurt his run for the presidency
All of McCains latest ads lately have been attack ads on Obama rather than substansive ads about how he would be a better candidate than Obama. Do you believe fear-and-smear ads work? Are you more influenced by attack ads over comparative ads?
I haven't seen any "attack" ads on McCain's character by the Obama campaign, (links welcome if others have seen some) but my comment above apply to both campaigns.
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May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:23:01 PM
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Jhud
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Do you have any specific campaign ad in mind?
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:25:15 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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Really, is this the first political campaign you've ever had the pleasure of following?
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:29:24 PM
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davemiller7
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Give Obamessiah time. He'll "go negative," but the media won't see it that way.
-Dave
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The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:32:12 PM
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rcjames
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I don't know Evangel; how stupid are you to support B. Hussein Obama?
And don't get huffy as you ask the question.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:51:41 PM
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Jhud
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I have always thought the most offensive ad was the one run by John Adams during the Adams/Jefferson race of 1800.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 4:58:25 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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Someone should have warned Adams against "going negative". But, then, Adams was probably a divider, not a uniter, and goodness knows he wasn't "the one".
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 5:03:08 PM
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tracydolls
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What can Mccain run on now? Bush's tax cuts, the War or his pro-choice stance?
The Gas Holiday or his vote to not have MLK holiday?
Not much to highlight so he has to go negative, funny how he said he wasnt gonna do it but of course...........
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 5:07:58 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
how stupid are you to support B. Hussein Obama?
I think he's decrying negative ads on both sides. He just hasn't seen any from Senator Obama yet. He didn't say how stupid are you to support John McCain?
I'm aware its been hapening since the beginning of campaigning but intelligent Americans have to reject this junk on both sides. Tough policy ads fine, cheap shots and extreme negativity without substance are not. Questioning someone's actions as not being in the country's best interest are fine, saying they are not patriotic is not OK.
And what's with the "B. Hussein Obama" anyway? Do you refer to Senator McCain as "J. Sidney McCain"? He can't do anything about his middle name except change it but that would be deceptive. I'd be more suspicious if he did that. I don't see any significant connection to Islam and certainly not to terrorism. This sort of thing just diminishes the many legitimate reasons not to vote for Obama.
quote:
Obamessiah
Because I mentioned the first I'll just say this one I don't mind as many people are treating him as such. When Jon Stewart notices you know what's up. I'm not sure Obama sees himself in that way (although I think he has a high opinion of himself) but many of his "followers" do. They'll be very disappointed, either in November if Obama loses or in say July 2009 when they realize that Obama can't save the world, or even this country.
BTW: McCain can't save us either nor any politician. So it isn't a swipe at Obama, simply a realization that politicians can't save us. It just seems some people think Obama can.
quote:
Nobama
That's funny and harmless. Just states the person's opinion.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 5:08:31 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
What can Mccain run on now? Bush's tax cuts, the War or his pro-choice stance?
The Gas Holiday or his vote to not have MLK holiday?
Not much to highlight so he has to go negative, funny how he said he wasnt gonna do it but of course...........
I still haven't seen any evidence that he has 'gone negative'?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 5:14:34 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
I still haven't seen any evidence that he has 'gone negative'?
He did say it seems that Senator Obama would lose a war to win an election (the exact quote escapes me). To me that was a bit much. It would have been enough to say Obama's plan might cause us to lose the war. Unless Senator McCain's a mind reader he really shouldn't be speculating on why Obama has the position he does on the war.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 5:55:06 PM
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inthysite
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Here is McCain's exact quote:
"I would much rather lose a campaign than lose a war. Sen. Obama has indicated that by his failure to acknowledge the success of the surge (in Iraq), that he would rather lose a war than lose a campaign."
What's new: McCain says Obama would rather lose the war than the campaign
If you ask me this isn't really all that bad. I've read worse on this forum that's for sure.
NObama refuses to admit that the surge has worked when even the liberal media will make that claim now. But NObama continues with his mantra that it didn't work just for political expediency, just like everything else he does.
McCain is just stating the pure and simple truth, why is that bad?
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Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 6:20:13 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
If you ask me this isn't really all that bad. I've read worse on this forum that's for sure.
While we can discuss whether this forum lives up to the high standards we should have as Christians it is a mostly polite, pleasant experience when compared to the average internet forum. Nonetheless, I think the standard of behavior for presidential candidates should not be measured by an internet forum. I'm sure you agree, as bad behavior should not be judged on the standard of worse behavior.
quote:
McCain is just stating the pure and simple truth, why is that bad?
Is he? Or is he speculating? I believe Senator Obama has said that while the surge has worked in making Iraq more secure the benefits of a more secure Iraq have not been realized (giving all the parties involved room to negotiate political reconciliation, a stable government and a trained Iraqi military). Thus he has concluded (rationalized) that the surge did not work, or do what it was designed to do.
I don't see where Senator McCain can conclude definitively that Obama would lose the war to win the election. Obama may just be wrong and stubborn. Wouldn't it be enough to just point out that Obama is stubborn and that stubborness may lead to bad decisions we can't afford to have from our president?
I personally would like to see McCain (and Obama) set a higher standard. Most likely I won't get to see it but it would be nice.
The main thing I was trying to do is give a potential example of McCain being negative so we could bat it about, which we're doing.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 6:43:26 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I don't know Evangel; how stupid are you to support B. Hussein Obama?
And don't get huffy as you ask the question.
Thanks
RC
Dude, you are seriously out of line. All you do is attack people like a troll.
How about you acknowledge McCain's reprehensible behaviour? Oh that's right republicans can act like scum but that's ok, because their good Christian Republicans and only Republicans can be Christians. After Christ was a Republican, so was Peter, and Noah, and Moses for that matter.
And don't get huffy when you answer.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 6:47:41 PM
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Jhud
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Okay, so I think we see now how easy it is to go negative.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 6:52:39 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Okay, so I think we see now how easy it is to go negative.
You're right it is easy to go negative and I'm tired of both sides doing it. I'm tired of people like McCain claiming to have integrity and saying they'll run a civil and clean campaign, then turning and attacking with below the belt nonsense that people are wildly sick of. I'm tired of seeing vitriol and hate coming from people who profess to be Christians but would rather pray for someone's death than their salvation. I'm tired of fighting battles that have no end and that no one else seems to care about, and I'm for sure tired of the lack of civility from all parties.
It's old and it needs to change.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 6:58:08 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
You're right it is easy to go negative and I'm tired of both sides doing it. I'm tired of people like McCain claiming to have integrity and saying they'll run a civil and clean campaign, then turning and attacking with below the belt nonsense that people are wildly sick of. I'm tired of seeing vitriol and hate coming from people who profess to be Christians but would rather pray for someone's death than their salvation. I'm tired of fighting battles that have no end and that no one else seems to care about, and I'm for sure tired of the lack of civility from all parties.
It's old and it needs to change.
Maybe take a break from the political threads? I find the occasional vacation to be refreshing.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 7:39:01 PM
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inthysite
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quote:
Is he? Or is he speculating? I believe Senator Obama has said that while the surge has worked in making Iraq more secure the benefits of a more secure Iraq have not been realized (giving all the parties involved room to negotiate political reconciliation, a stable government and a trained Iraqi military). Thus he has concluded (rationalized) that the surge did not work, or do what it was designed to do.
Sure McCain is speculating since NObama has never said the he would rather win the election and lose the war.
However, I believe McCain is speculation and coming to a conclusion based on facts that NObama has given us. Just look at his past and you will see that he is willing to do whatever it takes to win this election. Just look at his infamous prayer at the Wailing Wall that he conveniently released to the press to bolster his image.
How many times has he said he couldn't denounce someone just because of their views but later ended up denouncing them anyway.
I'm not saying he will intentionally lose the war, however he based a large part of his campaign on his assertion that the surge didn't work and now no matter what he cannot change that otherwise he will look weak to his base. He will do or say whatever he believes will win him this election.
Most liberals will now admit that the surge has worked, Katie Couric asked NObama three times if he would concede that the surge worked, but he wouldn't.
And let's not forget that NObama isn't quite innocent in this either. Sure his campaign ads may not be negative right now but he had a few during the primaries and he has said some pretty nasty things about McCain on the campaign trail. Let's also not forget how many times his camp accused people of being racists because they challenged his views, tactics, background or judgments.
As I recall though none of the liberals criticized him for that, no I believe they applauded and cheered.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 7:39:46 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Many are warning the McCain campaign that going negative on Obama's character rather than campaining on his strengths and experience will tun off independents and hurt his run for the presidency
All of McCains latest ads lately have been attack ads on Obama rather than substansive ads about how he would be a better candidate than Obama. Do you believe fear-and-smear ads work? Are you more influenced by attack ads over comparative ads?
I haven't seen any "attack" ads on McCain's character by the Obama campaign, (links welcome if others have seen some) but my comment above apply to both campaigns.
Personally, I find them distasteful - I don't generally believe a word that's in those ads, but they do cause me to see the accuser in a negative light. I got a negative impression of McCain during the primaries with his perpetually snide attitude towards Mitt Romney.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:13:10 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
And let's not forget that NObama isn't quite innocent in this either. Sure his campaign ads may not be negative right now but he had a few during the primaries and he has said some pretty nasty things about McCain on the campaign trail. Let's also not forget how many times his camp accused people of being racists because they challenged his views, tactics, background or judgments.
Agreed. If anyone gives an example of a nasty thing Senator Obama has said without a basis in fact or could be said without being nasty I'll gladly jump on it.
Politicians always have "camps" that say horrible things about their opponent. Obama's camp happens to have what they think is a winner in the race card. Its disgusting but many political operatives will do anything to win. I don't hold the candidates responsible for everything their "supporters" say but I do watch to see if they denounce it and if so how strongly. Senator McCain has clearly stated that the "Obama may be a closet Muslim / terrorist sympathizer" stuff is out of bounds and Obama condemned Wes Clark's statements about McCain's POW experience does not qualify him to be president (although indirectly and more toward saying that no one should question Mccain's service).
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:33:22 PM
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Evangel70
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BEFORE:
The McCain camp just sent this memo from campaign manager Rick Davis to reporters:
Date: 3/11/2008
John McCain is now the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party. It is critical, as we prepare to face off with whomever the Democrats select as their nominee, that we all follow John's lead and run a respectful campaign focused on the issues and values that are important to the American people.
Throughout the primary election we saw John McCain reject the type of politics that degrade our civics, and this will not change as he prepares to run head-to-head against the Democratic nominee….
Overheated rhetoric and personal attacks on our opponents distract from the big differences between John McCain's vision for the future of our nation and the Democrats. This campaign is about John McCain: his vision, leadership, experience, courage, service to his country and ability to lead as commander in chief from day one.
Throughout his life John McCain has held himself to the highest standards and he will continue to run a respectful campaign based on the issues.
Link Here
"What you're going to see is a great debate. Which is what the American public deserves. None of this negative stuff, though. You won't see it come out of our side at all." Cindy McCain (May 2008)
AFTER:
Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign is going negative in its advertising against the expected Democratic nominee, Sen. Barack Obama.
The Wisconsin Advertising Project, a nonpartisan group that monitors and analyzes political advertising, finds that ads aired by McCain and the Republican National Committee are "more negative" than those aired by Obama. Ninety percent of Obama's ads are positive and don't mention McCain. One third of McCain's campaign ads are negative, researchers found.
The advertising reflects what many political experts say is the character of the campaign so far..."This campaign is about Barack Obama, not John McCain," says Ken Goldstein, the project's director.
Earlier in his campaign, McCain asserted that he would avoid negative advertising.
Link Here
Had McCain stated early on that he will run a "win at any cost" campaign I would not fault him for going negative instead of focusing on substance. I just expected better of him. Guess I was wrong. IMO going negative instead of substance will mean a landslide for Obama.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:36:59 PM
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Jhud
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I am still waiting to see an example of McCain's supposed 'negative' advertising.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:50:26 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I am still waiting to see an example of McCain's supposed 'negative' advertising.
The ads he's had running so far, at least the ones I've seen, say nothing about why we should vote for him, all they've been is why you shouldn't vote for Obama. Essentially vote against him by voting for me.
Conversely Obama's ads have been largely positive and about why you should vote for him.
Positivity vs. negativity at play for all the world to see.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:51:54 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
The ads he's had running so far, at least the ones I've seen, say nothing about why we should vote for him, all they've been is why you shouldn't vote for Obama. Essentially vote against him by voting for me.
Conversely Obama's ads have been largely positive and about why you should vote for him.
Positivity vs. negativity at play for all the world to see.
Examples?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Stupid Are We? - 7/30/2008 8:57:10 PM
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inthysite
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quote:
Date: 3/11/2008
John McCain is now the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party. It is critical, as we prepare to face off with whomever the Democrats select as their nominee, that we all follow John's lead and run a respectful campaign focused on the issues and values that are important to the American people.
Throughout the primary election we saw John McCain reject the type of politics that degrade our civics, and this will not change as he prepares to run head-to-head against the Democratic nominee….
quote:
The Wisconsin Advertising Project, a nonpartisan group that monitors and analyzes political advertising, finds that ads aired by McCain and the Republican National Committee are "more negative" than those aired by Obama. Ninety percent of Obama's ads are positive and don't mention McCain. One third of McCain's campaign ads are negative, researchers found.
I believe you are twisting what is meant by a negative ad. Any ad that denounces or attacks an opponent's view on any issue will be and is considered negative. McCain did not say he wouldn't do that.
McCain stated he would "run a respectful campaign focused on the issues and values that are important to the American people." That's what this latest ad does, it focuses on the fact that NObama wants to lose the war in Iraq. He bases this on his belief that if we pull out of Iraq then the war is lost. He also bases this on the refusal of NObama to agree that the surge is working when it is plain as day to everyone else.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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