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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 4:27:03 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Joshua=Jahshua=Yahshua / Jesus=Jehsus=god Zuse=Transliteral:Living Life. Zoo=sus. I do not think Zuse is a biblical name for God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
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ORIGINAL: DaveW
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ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
And I do not see a relationship between the names Yahshua and Jesus. Somthing to think about. Original Hebrew Name = Yeshua (pronounced Yeh-SHOO-ah)
That gets represented in Greek as Ixote (sorry I have no pronounciation)
That gets in turn gets transliterated into Latin which has no sh sound and requires a -us ending (2nd declension) for masculine nouns. You get Iesus. (pronounced YAY-soos)
That gets taken straight into middle english spelled the same. Somewhere in the 1600s most initial Is become Js. You get the spelling Jesus.
Actually the Greek for Jesus is 'iesous''; it sounds almost like Yeh-soos.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 4:53:46 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
oshua=Jahshua=Yahshua / Jesus=Jehsus=god Zuse=Transliteral:Living Life. Zoo=sus. I do not think Zuse is a biblical name for God.
Ζεύς is the Greek for Zues.
Ίησους is the Greek for Jesus.
Except for the last two letter these names are completely different. However, there is a word that accurately describes the idea that these two names are somehow related and that is:
NONSENSE!
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 5:00:06 PM
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MrFribbles
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Good call, benelchi. You're absolutely right.
Also, I think a better pronunciation of "Ieysous" (sorry, no Greek font from me...) might be "Ee-aye-soos". "Yeh-soos" doesn't quite capture the eta sound. Plus, it sounds less like Zeus. ; )
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 5:29:19 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Good call, benelchi. You're absolutely right.
Also, I think a better pronunciation of "Ieysous" (sorry, no Greek font from me...) might be "Ee-aye-soos". "Yeh-soos" doesn't quite capture the eta sound. Plus, it sounds less like Zeus. ; )
You are absolutely correct about the Greek pronunciation. I actually chose the "Yeh-soos" pronunciation in this case because it was "like" the Greek, but also "like" the Latin (and Latin derivatives). In this case I was more interested in showing the relationship than in getting the pronunciation absolutely correct.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 5:40:56 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I actually chose the "Yeh-soos" pronunciation in this case because it was "like" the Greek, but also "like" the Latin (and Latin derivatives).
Fascinating! I really must look into Latin more. I tried to get it in High School, but it didn't click.
Anyhow, since that is the case, well done!
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 11:15:17 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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I see that I spelled Zeus wrong. However your Greek spelling for Jesus does not add up either. Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
oshua=Jahshua=Yahshua / Jesus=Jehsus=god Zuse=Transliteral:Living Life. Zoo=sus. I do not think Zuse is a biblical name for God.
Æåýò is the Greek for Zues.
ºçóïõò is the Greek for Jesus.
Except for the last two letter these names are completely different. However, there is a word that accurately describes the idea that these two names are somehow related and that is:
NONSENSE!
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RE: Yahwah - 8/27/2008 11:28:50 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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quote:
Zues From Greek Ἰησοῦς from Hebrew ישוע. The Greek text makes no distinction between Jesus and Joshua, referring to them both as Ἰησοῦς. The Vulgate is likely the earliest to make a distinction, referring to Jesus as Iesus and Joshua as Iosias. And so there is a spelling issue.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 12:42:15 AM
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benelchi
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quote:
I see that I spelled Zeus wrong. However your Greek spelling for Jesus does not add up either. Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
Do you realize that the Greek spelling I provided in my previous post is the same as the one you provided in your following post?
Do you realize you are missing a letter from your Hebrew spelling?
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From Greek Ἰησοῦς from Hebrew ישוע. The Greek text makes no distinction between Jesus and Joshua, referring to them both as Ἰησοῦς. The Vulgate is likely the earliest to make a distinction, referring to Jesus as Iesus and Joshua as Iosias. And so there is a spelling issue.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 6:58:29 AM
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DaveW
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The similarity in pronouncing Jesus and zeus (I refuse to capitalize the names of false gods) is a fluke of modern English. In middle and Elizabethan (KJV) English His name was pronounce YAY-soos.
Kinda like in English Elijah and Elisha sound alike when the originals are pronounced El-ee-YAH-hoo and El-ee-SHA; or the similarity between Paul and Saul, pronounced POW-loos and Sha'OOL
Don't believe ANY english pronounciation has anything behind it. We make everything sound alike.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 11:39:41 AM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
This is part of the problem.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 12:09:13 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Perhaps you would like to do the research on the name Jesus? The word Zeus seems to be a contraction of the words "Zoon and Deus." Remember Jesus real birth name was Yahshua, aka as Joshua. Personally I do not see the link between the Hebrew Yahshua and the Greek Jesus.
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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
This is part of the problem.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 12:58:58 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Perhaps you would like to do the research on the name Jesus? The word Zeus seems to be a contraction of the words "Zoon and Deus." Remember Jesus real birth name was Yahshua, aka as Joshua. Personally I do not see the link between the Hebrew Yahshua and the Greek Jesus.
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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
This is part of the problem.
I've done the research. I do see the connection.
For a side note, How do we know we shouldn't be
calling Him Emmanuel? They were told to call Jesus
Emmanuel.
I already have my own answer.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 1:05:34 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
Remember Jesus real birth name was Yahshua, aka as Joshua. Not exactly. "Joshua" has an extra hey in the middle: ישוע Yeshua and יהושׁע Yehoshua.
Related but not the same.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 7:08:10 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Because Emmanuel is a parable and not his birth name.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Perhaps you would like to do the research on the name Jesus? The word Zeus seems to be a contraction of the words "Zoon and Deus." Remember Jesus real birth name was Yahshua, aka as Joshua. Personally I do not see the link between the Hebrew Yahshua and the Greek Jesus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Anyway I'm not interested in trying to solve that.
This is part of the problem.
I've done the research. I do see the connection.
For a side note, How do we know we shouldn't be
calling Him Emmanuel? They were told to call Jesus
Emmanuel.
I already have my own answer.
quote:
Emmanuel
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 7:37:07 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Here is how the NIV concordance spells it: Yehosua. As you know, the vowels are arbitrary. I add a h after the s because it is a short sounding s. If you are sure of the spelling, then what we have is a contradiction by the scholars. The question here is, is Jesus truly the Greek translation for Yahshua? Or is it an interpretation?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
Remember Jesus real birth name was Yahshua, aka as Joshua. Not exactly. "Joshua" has an extra hey in the middle: éùåò Yeshua and éäåùÑò Yehoshua.
Related but not the same.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 9:33:05 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
If you are sure of the spelling, then what we have is a contradiction by the scholars. The question here is, is Jesus truly the Greek translation for Yahshua? Or is it an interpretation? Tansliterations into english are also arbitrary. But the Hebrew letter is a Shin, which has the sh- sound. Pay less attention to the english lettering and more to the Hebrew.
As I said before, "Jesus" is a Latin spelling, NOT Greek. The particular pronunciation is uniquely English.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Yahwah - 8/28/2008 11:42:34 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Oh, I see now. Although his name in Hebrew was originally Yahshua the Greeks called him Joshua. And the Catholic Church introduced his name as Jesus. But what does the word Jesus mean in Latin? If I was to give an interpretation, I would say "God Zeus." What are your thoughts on the matter?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
If you are sure of the spelling, then what we have is a contradiction by the scholars. The question here is, is Jesus truly the Greek translation for Yahshua? Or is it an interpretation? Tansliterations into english are also arbitrary. But the Hebrew letter is a Shin, which has the sh- sound. Pay less attention to the english lettering and more to the Hebrew.
As I said before, "Jesus" is a Latin spelling, NOT Greek. The particular pronunciation is uniquely English.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/29/2008 6:48:55 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
But what does the word Jesus mean in Latin? If I was to give an interpretation, I would say "God Zeus." What are your thoughts on the matter? As far as I can tell, it was just a name picked up from another language and latinized. Happens in English all the time.
One more thing - "zeus" is Greek, not Latin. the same psuedo-deity was called "iupiter" (jupiter) in Latin. They did not use the term "zeus" at all. The latin word for god is "deus." (DAY oos)
Forget the jesus - zeus similarity. That is a fluke of english. There is nothing left handed (latin - sinister) about it.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Yahwah - 8/30/2008 5:07:14 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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You say there is nothing left handed about it, but the more I study it, the more fishy it looks. Did you know that Zeus is also called Savior? And that is part of his name. And who is Gee Zeus, and who is HeyZeus?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
But what does the word Jesus mean in Latin? If I was to give an interpretation, I would say "God Zeus." What are your thoughts on the matter? As far as I can tell, it was just a name picked up from another language and latinized. Happens in English all the time.
One more thing - "zeus" is Greek, not Latin. the same psuedo-deity was called "iupiter" (jupiter) in Latin. They did not use the term "zeus" at all. The latin word for god is "deus." (DAY oos)
Forget the jesus - zeus similarity. That is a fluke of english. There is nothing left handed (latin - sinister) about it.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/30/2008 5:16:37 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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It is a known fact that the Greek names ending with sus, seus, and sous are phonetic pronunciations for the chief Greek god of Olympus; and were attached by the Greeks to names as a means to give honour to their supreme deity. I do not think we should be useing the name Jesus anymore. I would like to suggest that we call him Yahshua since the English language barrows from other languages.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/30/2008 7:10:06 PM
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Haran
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Hi all. I'm a newbie to Crosswalk forums, but have been posting on various other forums since 2000, so some here may recognize me.
Anyway, I enjoy Greek and Hebrew as a hobby (ok, call me a nerd...), so I have read this thread with great interest.
I think most people know this already, but I just wanted to say that BenElChi has been quite correct throughout this thread.
Michael, one cannot merely use a concordance and understand a language, though many make this mistake. You sound very interested in Hebrew and Greek, so I would highly recommend that you take a class in Hebrew and you will begin to better understand what BenElChi has written.
Although this was explained already, I just want to reiterate that HYH is the root (a.k.a. Lemma). Your source is giving you the Lemma (root) word that occurs in Ex. 3:14, not the exact Hebrew text. All Hebrew texts (DSS or Masoretic) that I am aware of have the word, as already stated, 'ehyeh' (I am). In fact, it has 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' which means "I am who/that I am".
I don't have time in this post, but if you like I can give you links directly to the Masoretic text where you will find the word.
Also, with respect to your previous post. The ending of IESOUS has nothing to do with Zeus it is a 'case ending' in Greek. If you wish, more can be explained later.
Suffice it to say that it is dangerous to try and interpret the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible without learning the languages first.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/30/2008 11:47:40 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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If I am 100% wrong, then who is Gee Zeus, and who is HeyZeus? My NIV Concordance is based upon the Masoretic and it says HaYah. "I am" is an interpretation, not a translation. God's full name is Yhwh, not hyhhwh. You do not keep the article "The or Is." You drop the articles before the verbs to form the pronown. Oh, and welcome to the message board. I hope our conversation is productive.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Haran
Hi all. I'm a newbie to Crosswalk forums, but have been posting on various other forums since 2000, so some here may recognize me.
Anyway, I enjoy Greek and Hebrew as a hobby (ok, call me a nerd...), so I have read this thread with great interest.
I think most people know this already, but I just wanted to say that BenElChi has been quite correct throughout this thread.
Michael, one cannot merely use a concordance and understand a language, though many make this mistake. You sound very interested in Hebrew and Greek, so I would highly recommend that you take a class in Hebrew and you will begin to better understand what BenElChi has written.
Although this was explained already, I just want to reiterate that HYH is the root (a.k.a. Lemma). Your source is giving you the Lemma (root) word that occurs in Ex. 3:14, not the exact Hebrew text. All Hebrew texts (DSS or Masoretic) that I am aware of have the word, as already stated, 'ehyeh' (I am). In fact, it has 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' which means "I am who/that I am".
I don't have time in this post, but if you like I can give you links directly to the Masoretic text where you will find the word.
Also, with respect to your previous post. The ending of IESOUS has nothing to do with Zeus it is a 'case ending' in Greek. If you wish, more can be explained later.
Suffice it to say that it is dangerous to try and interpret the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible without learning the languages first.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/31/2008 12:06:40 AM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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This quote is from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.
"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and cant. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
This is what I am thinking in regards to the conversation about God's name and His Messiah.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/31/2008 1:10:04 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2909
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
If I am 100% wrong, then who is Gee Zeus, and who is HeyZeus? My NIV Concordance is based upon the Masoretic and it says HaYah. "I am" is an interpretation, not a translation. God's full name is Yhwh, not hyhhwh. You do not keep the article "The or Is." You drop the articles before the verbs to form the pronown. Oh, and welcome to the message board. I hope our conversation is productive.
There is no IF about it, you are 100% WRONG!
Jesus is not related in any way to the name Zeus.
There is no article in HYH, those are the root letters of the verb!
HYH has been and continues to be the verb 'to be', "I am" is an accurate translation of the first person imperfect.
Pronouns are NEVER formed by dropping the article.
The NIV Concordance is based upon the NIV English Text not the Masoretic Text, nor is the Hebrew Lexicon (Dictionary) in the Back of the concordance is not based on any particular Hebrew text. Its definitions are suitable used for any of the Hebrew biblical texts.
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RE: Yahwah - 8/31/2008 1:17:37 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2909
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Haran
Hi all. I'm a newbie to Crosswalk forums, but have been posting on various other forums since 2000, so some here may recognize me.
Anyway, I enjoy Greek and Hebrew as a hobby (ok, call me a nerd...), so I have read this thread with great interest.
Welcome to the boards Haran.
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