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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/4/2008 11:09:49 PM
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drifter17
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
At the beginning, with the Church job, you say you were not neglecting her. She expressed unmet needs, but you felt that you had already divided up your time in a fair manner, and that she was unreasonable in desiring more of you. In fact, in this situation, you were neglecting her. Her needs were greater than you anticipated, and greater than she led you to believe, but they were there and you neglected them.
What should a young man do? He should take care of his household before ministry. Always. Whatever it takes. A young man in that position should step down. Immediately. And try for intensive damage control before things got worse.
Marriage is not a contract wit terms. Whether she misrepresented her willingness, was caught in wishful thinking, was the victim of spiritual warfare, or something changed circumstantially... You were obligated to be the husband of your marriage covenant, the marriage to her, the person she was at that moment, the person she is now -- with no reference to the kind of person she had told you she was going to be.
You were trying in vain because you refused to release from your life the thing that was wounding her continually. You added further injury by blaming her for not being able to reasonably tolerate, befriend and listen to the advice of her 'rival' for your affections.
Making more compromises than you would like is just one of those 'for worse' things. I guarantee you that you'd have had to make just as many compromises if your wife had, for example, come down with Multiple Sclerosis. This difference is that 'that' wouldn't have been her fault. In your case you just don't think she deserves your efforts. It's not about her deserving it. It's about you loving, honouring, cherishing an undeserving woman. It's called grace. It's hard. But it's the only right answer.
You can be married to her without her ever changing. And you can be satisfied with that if you would abandon all your pipe dreams that involve a different woman (not a real other woman, but your wife suddenly transformed into someone she is not and can not be). She does not have to work on herself or her marriage. All she has to do is live with you and try not to be crushed by your constant drive for a dream home with a dream wife in a dream world.
Simply live with her, and love her, and let her be! All you have to do is spend 3 to 5 hours each evening smiling and being friendly, then go to bed and share your bed space. That will keep you married. There is no need for your "one person show" and the frustration it brings you.
While you are at letting her be, let yourself be, too. Your fear of failure as a husband is the root cause of this entire mess. You're OK. Really. You don't need your goals, your working on things, your striving and dissatisfaction.
You are not going to see any 'improvement' in your wife until she feel safe... which I'm going to estimate at about a decade. Just try to be OK with who she is until then. Stop trying to drag her along to get anywhere. Where you are is OK for a while as long as she is there with you. Get cozy and wait it out. That's called hope.
I can see where you are coming from. However, I do not agree with some of what you are saying.
When I say that one of her main problems with me working at the church was my schedule, this is what I mean: there were times when she randomly would decide that she didn't want to go to church on a Saturday night and do something else, like go and see a movie instead. I would try to compromise with her, saying that we can go after church even though I had to be up early the next day. Or she would want to sleep in on a Sunday and just skip church, begging me to 'call in sick.' This is when her problems with my schedule really started getting bad. Now imagine if you spouse started doing this when you needed to go off to work. Now imagine it happening every week or every other week. What would happen if you didn't go into work? Eventually you'd lose your job. My wife knew what my job entailed before we got married and swore up and down that she loves what I do and would support me 100%. Obviously this wasn't the case.
Eventually it turns out that the real reason behind this was because she didn't want to work at all. Before this, she never really had to work. Her parents paid for most everything and she just had small part time jobs here and there for various family members of friends of the family. Essentially, she had to grow up pretty fast but blamed me for it. I was the reason she wasn't working 10 hours a week anymore, and I was the reason why she couldn't afford coffee every day and I was the reason why she couldn't get whatever she wanted whenever she wanted it. So then tell me, who was being unreasonable to the others needs? I was doing my best to provide for my wife by doing what God told me to do, and we were doing fine. She just didn't want to work. She didn't want to have to contribute to our family.
She wants to be a house-wife. Which is fine; I love this and I want nothing more than to be able to let her do that. HOWEVER, this is next to impossible in today's society, especially when first starting out in marriage. Last I checked, marriage was a partnership. And this is all I want - a partner for life. Someone who will be there for me just as I am there for her. Someone who is just as interested in my goals and ambitions as I am hers. I have never once said no to anything she has ever wanted. I have just expressed to her the reality of the lack of possibility at that moment in time. IE there being no way we could possibly survive with only me working, even if I quit the church and got a secular job (which I've eventually done- and she's still working).
So once again, I disagree with some of what you are saying. I understand your position in jumping on the poor, defenseless wife bandwagon. The majority of people I've talked with share this viewpoint at first. But when they start to look at the details and really see the heart of the situation, their opinions change. Now, I am not trying to convince you all that my wife is a horrible person. She isn't and I love her to death. And there are plenty of good things about her and our marriage that I haven't shared here, the reason being that I am searching for help for the unhealth in our marriage. Is the church a hospital for the sick or the healthy? Hence why I am only bringing up the parts that need fixing.
quote:
Simply live with her, and love her, and let her be! All you have to do is spend 3 to 5 hours each evening smiling and being friendly, then go to bed and share your bed space. That will keep you married. There is no need for your "one person show" and the frustration it brings you.
This is what I'm referring to when I say that I disagree with some of what you say. This 'key to marital bliss' seems rather, well, robotic to me. What about each spouses goals and ambitions? What about the long nights staying up with the other when they are sick, or crying with them when a loved one passes away? What about being there in total support for their dreams? Forgive me but marriage should be far more passionate than that. And in the end, that's all I want.
When I look back over our marriage and everything that I may yet accomplish in life, I want my wife to be by my side so that I can say that I couldn't have done any of it without her and that she was an invaluable part of any success I have, not a hurtle that I had to overcome to get there, if that makes sense.
Forgive me for wanting a marriage that thrives. I don't want to be room-mates. I want to be best friends. We used to be once. I just want that again. Besides, I don't want to get caught up on what has happened and is over, but rather what I can do something about now.
This is the picture: we're living in the house my wanted, she's driving the car that she wanted, she has the dog that she wanted, heck - my brother and niece are living with us because she wanted them to. I have no qualms doing whatever it is that makes my wife happy. I never have. It brings me joy to do these things for her. I take her out at least once a week, buy her flowers, etc etc etc. Overall, she would say that she's pretty happy and content, save for not having kids yet. She has gotten used to the fact that working to survive is an inevitability right now in life for us. Heck, we're even trying for a kid (have been for 4 months now), against my better judgment since we still have all these issues. So what is the problem? She still has her issues, we still have our issues, and she still refuses to deal with any of them. I have tried everything to get her to understand what all this is doing to me. And once again, this is a team and I can't fix every thing on my own. I wish I could, believe me.
And that's my problem. If the roles were reversed, IE I was completely content but completely ignoring the fact that my wife was not, would that change the advice eing given? Should it? Just something to think about.
_____________________________
I have been pushed past my breaking point. But instead of exploding, I have chosen to implode, since there is no one to help pick up the pieces.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/4/2008 11:26:04 PM
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drifter17
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
I saw some of the issues my wife had before we were married, but I was so in love and afraid of losing her that I went ahead and married her anyways, reasoning that her immaturity and issues would become fixed in time.
You saw the handwriting on the wall and married her anyhow, so imo it is your responsibility to stick with the marriage.
The only thing I know to suggest is begin a prayer time as a couple every single day, at least once a day and possibly more. Make sure you both take turns praying out loud for each other and for your marriage. Make sure your wife hears you thanking God for allowing the two of you to be together and ask the Holy Spirit to make you both become one in the spirit.
Develop an attitude that marriage is giving 100% everyday. Say that out loud in your prayertime..ask for God to help you both learn how to give 100%.
I also think your wife needs to hear you ask for forgiveness in areas where she feels you fail her. Whether you feel you are or not sometimes women need to hear us speak certain things .
Imo it's part of our responsiblility to love our wife in the way she needs to be loved. It doesn't make me a weaker person to give in because of love. I am not talking about giving in to things that are sinful, but giving in to meet the emotional and spiritual need of our spouse.
Do you feel that you can do that and do you pray with her daily about these things?
Another thing that helps some couples is to journal together..have you ever done something like that?
Oh believe me, I take full responsibility for marrying her despite "seeing the writing on the wall." However, I was so scared of losing her if I post-poned the wedding that I did it anyways. Heck, I even asked her later on if she would've left if had I post-poned it, and she said she definitely would have. Part of that whole trust issue thing.
However, it just adds to the hopelessness to know that because of this, our marriage has to be like this for the rest of our lives. I refuse to accept that as part of our lives. I refuse to be unhappy and have a floundering marriage for the rest of our lives. Hence why I mentioned being at the point of just giving in/giving up to the pressures and just giving my wife everything she wants. Just let her lead and give in to her every whim while I just be the whipped dog in the background, which I obviously don't want either. Now, I'm not refusing these things by ways of pride, arrogance, or any undeserved fantasies, but rather by the promises of the Word of God in the Bible.
And the thing about my wife is that she is a good person and doesn't realize she's doing what she's doing, hence doesn't see a need to change. Take the love languages for instance. She is a huge touch person, but I'm not. But what she does is touch me all the time thinking that she is filling up my love tank since that's what fills hers up, but it doesn't fill up mine. Yet time after time she just doesn't understand this concept.
And with the prayer, I pray and she prays, but we haven't prayed together for a long time. The thought of it frustrates me. I think what it is, for me, is that my mind has gotten to the point that any 'budging' I do for her to show that things are OK and that I'm okay is telling her that everything that I've told her and expressed about my personal feelings, issues and concerns has gone out the window. I previously mentioned that I've tried the 30 days idea, where I pretend everything is perfect and be Mr. Wonderful for 30 days to see what happens. All that happens is that my wife thinks everything is fine and yeah, she's happy, but she doesn't change a darn thing. She doesn't do anything more/less in regards to the efforts put into our relationship. So I guess I'm just not wanting to let myself hope again only to be disappointed yet again.
Which once again brings me back to why I'm here. What can I do differently to show her that my feelings and needs are real, legitimate, and worth fighting for? Mirroring this hasn't changed anything (IE treating her how I would want to be treated), so really what else is there? I've prayed until I'm blue in the face but her hard heart refuses to change. But the thing is I know that she's not doing it on purpose.
What can I do?
_____________________________
I have been pushed past my breaking point. But instead of exploding, I have chosen to implode, since there is no one to help pick up the pieces.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/4/2008 11:30:41 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 323
Joined: 12/6/2007
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drifter, so glad that you came back. Are you spending quiet, alone time with God? Have you been hearing the word and reading the word regularly since depression really hit? It may be difficult to do when you're angry, hurt, offended, confused but failing to do so robs you of the strength you need to ENDURE this trial.
Two years ago I faced a situation that was so unexpected and so disappointing that I could not see myself having the relationship with God that I'd previously enjoyed. I was hurt and confused (and God was not giving explaination) yet, within me was the strength to keep praying to Him and to pick up that bible even though it wasn't as frequent as before. Looking back, I see how God was indeed encouraging me thru messages I heard and thru people but I was too low to receive His comfort.....yet I kept praying. Even in the midst of the most difficult time in your life, you can have a joy that's unspeakable(and I'm not just quoting the word, I'm describing my own experience). Late in the night, as I rotated and reasoned my situation, and cried, and cried, there was an awareness of His peace and His strength and His comfort and His loving me THRU my pain.
Drifter......... live by what you KNOW...... not what you FEEL..... not what you THINK..... not what you SEE!!!!!!!!
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 2:37:56 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 624
Joined: 7/13/2007
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Drifter, reading this book (Discovering the Mind of A Woman) https://lifepartners.org/store.htmlm will change your marriage if you apply the principles it teaches. What seems to be needed most of all in your marriage is the death of "self". Husbands are commanded to lay down their lives for their wives just as Christ did for the Church. From everything you've written here is seems you have not learned how to do that yet. It means putting your wife's needs and desires above your own without being resentful or feeling sorry for yourself if your needs and desires aren't equally met. Marriage is not 50/50. If you give 100% for a while and then quit it undoes all the good that came from all that effort. You must be consistent. Your first ministry is to your wife (and future children). If you aren't being Christlike in your relationship with your wife then how can you effectively minister to others? You can't. And that's not your wife's fault. The responsibility lies on your shoulders. You aren't commanded to be Christlike only if your wife does her part in meeting your needs. You are commanded to love her as Christ loved the Church, no exceptions. And the beauty of it is that when a husband does this consistently the wife usually begins to respond in a very positive manner.
You mentioned being "equally yolked" as if it meant that each spouse must give their fair share of effort to the marriage. From my understanding that passage is referring to being married to a Christian. It means we aren't to marry outside of the faith.
The fact that your wife had a hard time with you working 40 hrs. per week plus weekends is not surprising. Yes, she agreed to that beforehand but once you married the reality was that she needed more of your time than you were giving. It may have been hard for her to really understand how it would be to have a husband who was so tied up with work until she actually started living in the reality of it. The solution to that problem would have been to willingly and joyfully (out of selfless love for your wife) find an alternative way to provide that wouldn't have you working so many hours. I also don't see the problem with your wife wanting to be a stay-at-home mom and wife. That's a wonderful calling for a woman. Also, many families do it. It's not something that only wealthy people are able to do. Many couples choose to sacrifice financial gain in order to have one parent be a stay-at-home mom/dad. That's what we did and I would do it all over again. We were poor for a while and it was rough. But like I said, it was worth it. You should be happy and proud that your wife would make such a selfless choice.
As far as the failed "30 day challenges" go..... If the motives behind it are self-serving(i.e. trying to get her to be a better wife) then it won't work. My best advice is to read the book I recommended. It's changed my marriage and I'm condident it could change yours too.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 5:32:24 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1781
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
And with the prayer, I pray and she prays, but we haven't prayed together for a long time. The thought of it frustrates me. I think what it is, for me, is that my mind has gotten to the point that any 'budging' I do for her to show that things are OK and that I'm okay is telling her that everything that I've told her and expressed about my personal feelings, issues and concerns has gone out the window.
I'd suggest you start with the praying together part and do not pressure her in any way about it either. Just ask for her hand and begin. I have found prayertime is a wonderful way to share your wants desires frustrations praise (always include praise to God for your spouse regardless of what else is happening in your relationship) invite the presence of the Holy Spirit into your marriage daily. Ask Him to teach you how to be the husband your wife needs....
above all do not base your prayers on how your wife may or may not respond. this may sounds really weird at first but if you continue doing it it works.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 9:14:08 AM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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Agree fully with buckifn, and incidentally, those thirty day challenges are a real bad idea.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 10:13:24 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1752
Joined: 3/24/2008
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So everyone really keeps telling you the same things. Are you hearing any of it? It's not that we don't want to discuss her shortfallings or commiserate with you (well, maybe we don't). But that's just not productive. God hasn't called you to have the perfect wife (ie make or manipulate her into the perfect wife). He's simply called you to be the husband he expects you to be. The rest is really up to Him and up to her. You've got to get the focus off her or He can't work in either of your lives.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 11:32:06 AM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1042
Joined: 4/29/2005
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Drifter...
I feel I might have been to wordy in my post. You seem to have missed the main point, so I'll be blunter.
It is your dogged pursuit of "marital bliss" that is going to drive you to divorce.
I'd say that marital "OK"-ness is a better option.
With all the things you want to try, and all the things you want her to try...
Why not just check into the option of just being nice to her for a little while?
The only "issue" I see in your marriage is that you blame your wife's "issues" for your refusal to live in harmony with the wife you pledged your life to.
If this were couple's counseling I'd have a tonne of advice for her too... but it's you that asked for help, so I've told you what a poor dedicated husband can do with a wife that's not up to snuff. It's not a partnership. It's a calling, and it calls for grace, not egalitarianism.
If you want a wife that's up to snuff, and you want her shortly, divorce is your best option. Go find someone else who will satisfy you... but don't expect God to be happy with that choice. Breaking covenant because the other person isn't working hard enough for your personal satisfaction is a sin.
If you want a wife that might eventually come around in her own time... give her time and let her be.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 11:46:19 AM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:
If you want a wife that's up to snuff, and you want her shortly, divorce is your best option. Go find someone else who will satisfy you... but don't expect God to be happy with that choice. Breaking covenant because the other person isn't working hard enough for your personal satisfaction is a sin.
If you want a wife that might eventually come around in her own time... give her time and let her be. [/quote
If my certin key were not sticking right now it would be lot clerer but first letter of the alphabet-men
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 11:59:56 AM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:
And there are plenty of good things about her and our marriage that I haven't shared here, the reason being that I am searching for help for the unhealthy in our marriage. Is the church a hospital for the sick or the healthy? Hence why I am only bringing up the parts that need fixing.
The church should always be both. And it sounds to me like if you only bring up the parts that need fixing, that tells a lot about why there's the problem.
And I sense there's a problem, and unfortunately if you only notice the bad, you blind yourself to the good, so divorce is not only sin but a very unwise move.
Gee brother, were you listening when you got married and someone er ah, maybe a PREACHER may have mentioned that little issue in the vows bout for better or worse? I don't recall it saying "If I cant see anything but what is worse I am totally justified to wail and whine and go demand my money back, or at least what I justify as a suitable refund or return?"
Brother, try a little tenderness, communicate nicely, regard your wife with respect and talk to her. I sense you may be too overcritical and if you do not express exactly what you want, you better get used to abiding in what you petition for. always remember in this and any other communication barrier, if you point finger, four of em point right back to you.
...
And another thing
You don't mention what positive things she has done. Although I may be off the mark here, if you aren't doing it here, you are likely not doing it with her. If you constantly point out what is wrong, then eventually, the person who is on the other side of the complaints will stop srtiving to please, and also trying to do things. Any human being needs a compliment every once in awhile. If things are bad, try this. make a list of what's good. Force yourself.
< Message edited by revbob4God -- 8/5/2008 12:53:58 PM >
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 12:07:16 PM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Drifter:
It sounds like you did those 30 day challeges with motive behind them. You see you aren't going to fix things with that outlook. These types of devotions are to change YOUR heart, and YOUR view on things! If the 30 day deal isn't focused on that - then kick it to the curb! It will cause you more heartache than its worth! You are not to do these things to GET something like change within your wife, because God always asks us to change ourselves first.
As God's people we are to serve others as I'm sure you know. You are so focused on this ministry that you are forgetting about the foundation of your first one! I realize you mentioned that your wife made promises to you, but at times you need to adjust when you realize she may not be capable of doing that. As HARD as that may be to shallow and accept you really have no choice if you want this relationship to work. Its not something you can change or fix at this point. If God wishes you to serve the youth he will place the path of opportunity in front of you. It sounds to me like he is calling you to do other things FIRST, and it could be because he has a different direction he wishes you to go! For right now - your ministry and role as pastor has to take the backseat! I don't know for how long, but your foundation is very shakey and will crumble if you don't start refocusing on what is important! SHe isn't capable of being the pastor's wife right now! She can't handle the job you wish to have her do. At this point there is no changing that! You need to accept it for right now, and find a way of doing God's will for you in a different direction. You have been trying to place a round block in the square hole for long enough. Its NOT going to fit - so give it up!
As hard as the outlook is, and as heartbreaking as it sounds ... you may have to step down to get your priorties straight! You may have to go to a secular job, and maybe serve your church in another capacity. Its not the end of the world, because if God has a direction for you he will show you that. It may be later on in life, and he may wish to take this time to mold you and your wife for the work he wishes to lay before the both of you. YOu are angry right now, because you want your life to be on a certain path. It seems that your wife is fighting you every step of the way. How are you going to honor your calling in the fashion you envision with that happening right now? You can't! Step back - and regroup!
I have been married for over 20 years, and let me tell you I couldn't believe the direction it has gone at times! NEVER would have guessed it in a million years! It was HARDLY what I envisioned! We have choices to make in life. Either accept things and change with them, or make ourselves miserable. You need the first one but you have choosen the second path, and believe ME it won't be the last time you do that! LOL I know I have been there myself! You are young, and you have ALOT of living left to you! Place those dreams on hold for a while, and wait on God to show you which direction he would have you take! Think about it for a moment! In most cases is God going to ask you to go down a path of service dragging your wife behind you kicking and screaming? YES ministry is to be partnership, and if something doesnt' work for ONE...it shouldn't WORK for the other! YOu need to face that reality also!
Think about something else as well! Could God be wishing to show you HOW to serve under circumstances because he wishes to show you something - to mold you for a purpose? Could he be asking you to do things so that your wife could experience things that could MOLD her as well? You have your eye on the pie, and your angry because people aren't going along with your program! LOL Don't get mad at me for saying that - we have all DONE THAT! What you have to realize is LIFE don't work out well when we do! Your living it - doesn't feel good does it? Get on your knees instead, and ask GOD which direction you should go.......and then LISTEN! Place your desires and your dreams aside for a moment and LISTEN! Think of all the stories in the bible of people that had a direction in life, and God basically told them....that isn't what I want of you! Do you think Moses envisioned his path in a million years? What about the Paul? LOL! I bet they would have looked at you like you have three heads and horn if you told them what their paths were going to be early on!
Don't get discouraged! Do what needs to be done, and build that firm foundation! God will bless you, and show you HIS path for your life! It may seem like your dreams are being smashed, but we live to fulfilled God's will. He will place you on the path you need to go. It may be totally different than what you envisioned, but that doesn't always have to be BAD!
Pray for peace in your heart, and pray for the path in which God wishes you to go. The anger and resentment you have in your heart isn't something God would wish to be there. Give it up and ask God. He won't disappoint you! It may different - but remember different isn't always bad!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 12:57:10 PM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:
I have been married for over 20 years, and let me tell you I couldn't believe the direction it has gone at times! NEVER would have guessed it in a million years! It was HARDLY what I envisioned! We have choices to make in life. Either accept things and change with them, or make ourselves miserable. You need the first one but you have choosen the second path, and believe ME it won't be the last time you do that! LOL I know I have been there myself! You are young, and you have ALOT of living left to you! Place those dreams on hold for a while, and wait on God to show you which direction he would have you take! Think about it for a moment! In most cases is God going to ask you to go down a path of service dragging your wife behind you kicking and screaming? YES ministry is to be partnership, and if something doesnt' work for ONE...it shouldn't WORK for the other! YOu need to face that reality also!
Think about something else as well! Could God be wishing to show you HOW to serve under circumstances because he wishes to show you something - to mold you for a purpose? Could he be asking you to do things so that your wife could experience things that could MOLD her as well? You have your eye on the pie, and your angry because people aren't going along with your program! LOL Don't get mad at me for saying that - we have all DONE THAT! What you have to realize is LIFE don't work out well when we do! Your living it - doesn't feel good does it? Get on your knees instead, and ask GOD which direction you should go.......and then LISTEN! Place your desires and your dreams aside for a moment and LISTEN! Think of all the stories in the bible of people that had a direction in life, and God basically told them....that isn't what I want of you! Do you think Moses envisioned his path in a million years? What about the Paul? LOL! I bet they would have looked at you like you have three heads and horn if you told them what their paths were going to be early on!
Don't get discouraged! Do what needs to be done, and build that firm foundation! God will bless you, and show you HIS path for your life! It may seem like your dreams are being smashed, but we live to fulfilled God's will. He will place you on the path you need to go. It may be totally different than what you envisioned, but that doesn't always have to be BAD!
Pray for peace in your heart, and pray for the path in which God wishes you to go. The anger and resentment you have in your heart isn't something God would wish to be there. Give it up and ask God. He won't disappoint you! It may different - but remember different isn't always bad!
Amen
Look at it this way brother, If you go to the church and for some reason the door is stuck does that mean you should stand there whining or look for another way in?
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 4:10:40 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 323
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
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Drifter, I'm also curious to know, how are you receiving the advice given? Have you been able to locate some personal truths that need to be applied? has the focus on what YOU need to do come off as harsh and unsympathetic? because anyone who has been married any length of time, if they're honest, will tell you that these "principles" of self-lessness and/or selfishness did not become manifested REALITY overnight. Many here DO understand how you feel and what you're going thru!
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 4:19:08 PM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
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I am not unsympathetic. I am trying to be objective. Brother Drifter, you knew from the beginning that the path could be rocky from what you have said about your mother in law. If you married this woman with doubts and did not openly communicate your concerns then how would she know the concerns or act accordingly.
Good marriages do not just happen, it does seriously take a lot of work.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 6:21:09 PM
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drifter17
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but I've let myself become a victim. One of my biggest strengths, but also my largest weakness, is that I tend to be a deep thinker. But what I tend to do with my thinking is either logically justify my thoughts and behavior and/or over-analyze my predicaments.
And once again, thanks to everyone who has taken time to chime in. Looking back at what I've been posting, I think I have been doing it more for me than for you all. What I mean by this is, once again, I am a deep thinker. But if I keep all of my thoughts, logic, etc, solely to myself, there's 0 accountability with my thought life. It has been a real eye-opening experience sharing my thoughts and emotions with you all. Reading back over what both I have written and what you all have written, I am learning quite a bit about myself.
So to continue with that train of thought, I suppose I'll describe the time-line of events leading up to today.
I started dating my wife about the same time I started working at the church. These were two dreams of mine coming true at once; I was ecstatic. I threw everything I had at wooing my wife. For the longest time she refused to tell me she loved me, even after I had already told her. Eventually she did and it wasn't soon after this that I proposed. Even throughout this time I was giving my 100% to her; sending flowers, surprising her at work, buying jewelry, taking her out, spending time with her family, etc etc etc. Her co-workers even gave me the nick-name of Mr. Wonderful. Then about half-way through our engagement I slowly started realizing a growing emptiness inside of me. I had been spending so much energy and attention on making my wife happy that I hadn't even realized that she was doing next to nothing for me. I then went to my pastor and he told me about the 5 love languages. It made sense; I kept filling her up but she wasn't filling me up. Great, I thought, now I can go talk with her and we would read this book and all would be better.
Obviously, things didn't go so well. When I brought it up, my wife got VERY defensive and began crying. I asked her what the matter was and she told me that she's a terrible girlfriend! I consoled her and told her that she was a great girlfriend, etc. This is when I first started really noticing her issues (insecurities, trust issues, etc). I would seek council on how to bring these issues up in a positive manner, and would follow all advice given to me to the letter, but each time she would freak out, and once again I would end up consoling her, hoping that as long as I do what was right (IE making her happy), that she would do her part to listen to my concerns and take steps to fix some of the problems. I mean, that's what I would do in the same situation if I were her, so she certainly would, right? =P
It was about this time that I was starting to get a little worried, but being young and in love, I was a little blind and biased to the entire situation. As was mentioned before, I knew if I were to postpone the wedding, she'd leave me and I did not want that. So we took some pre-marital classes, read a whole bunch of books and I sat down one night and discussed with our goals and dreams in life, to make sure that we both knew what we were getting into. She told me that she loved my calling and the kids I was teaching and that she would be by my side forever, and would support me in any way I needed. I shared with her how I knew God had called me to full-time ministry, which was not going to be the easiest of paths to walk. She told me she was aware of what she was getting into, and that she was prepared to live a life of ministry. It was actually a very good night and most of my fears were relieved because I honestly believed her. Even though we still had our problems and nothing had really been fixed, I felt content with even a step in the right direction and that we would be able to now work on these issues together as a team.
Oh how naive I was.
It wasn't long after we were married that she really started to change. She started getting depressed and angry at just about everything. She slowly stopped helping me with my ministry and eventually stopped going to church. She hated working and on several occasions left in the middle of her shift with having panic attacks. It was a good thing that she was working for my parents, too, otherwise I'm sure she would have been fired.
She began blaming God for everything, and I mean everything. Essentially, she had her mind made up as to what marriage was supposed to look like, and when she wasn't getting her fairy tale, she started freaking out. And by fairy tale, I mean she wanted a huge house right away, a brand new car, kids, etc, all without contributing to gain any of these things (IE not work). The worst part of all of this was that she was refusing to seek any sort of help for these issues. She did not want to go to counseling. She refused to speak with pastors. She just wanted what she wanted and no one was going to tell her otherwise, my needs be damned.
It was hard not to develop a deep sense of betrayal from this. I mean, this is my wife here, my partner in crime, the love of my life. Metaphorically speaking, it was as if we were walking down the path of life and marriage side by side, but she just stopped, threw a tantrum, and sat down, refusing to get up until she got everything she wanted. I had no idea how to deal with this.
And on top off everything, she still never learned to speak my love language. I had started to lose hope. Not only was my marriage falling apart, I was getting pressure from the pastors of the church to 'fix' the problem. But how could I when my wife refused to work with me? I was more than willing to do whatever it took in order to help us, but it was all useless and my intentions were made moot when she refused to act.
I eventually stepped down from the church, merely weeks after I had finally received my pastor's license. To make a long story short, I now work for my parents. Not a fact that I am too terribly proud of, I must admit. And through all of this, I became very callous and hopeless. I mean, I followed every instruction given me and read every book I was advised to read. We did couples counseling twice, premarital classes, finance classes, communication classes, etc. But throughout it all, my wife would either refuse to go, apply what was learned, or even look at herself for even a moment. I eventually donned an attitude of forced accountability, IE if she wasn't going to take a good look at herself and see what her actions are doing to our marriage, then I am. I suppose it was the only bit of control I felt I had left over the out-of-control spiral our relationship had entered.
So in the end, I find myself with a deep sense of betrayal, resentment, callousness, depression, hopelessness, unfulfillment, loneliness, no support, and bitterness. I have placed walls over my heart due to the hurt of giving her my everything, only to have her rejection in the end because I couldn't give her everything life had to offer immediately upon our vows.
So this is where I've been at for the last year or so. My depression has especially gotten worse since the beginning of this year. I don't know how many of you out there have ever been depressed, or have ever been depressed for more than 6 months, but it is completely inundating. I feel as if I do not have the strength left to fight for our marriage. Though it pains me to openly admit it, I guess on some levels I don't trust God to see me through this, since I was doing everything he wanted of me. I was following his instructions, the Bible, and the suggestions of trusted pastors and still this is where I've ended up. I guess this is why I feel like prayer won't work. I don't blame God for where I am at, I just don't trust that he is going to get me out of this mess, if that makes sense. "I got myself into this, and so I need to get myself out. No one is going to do my job for me" I suppose is my mentality.
Yet I feel as if don't have the strength to do anything about it anymore. Heck, this is probably the main reason why I haven't gotten a divorce, because the task of doing so seems way too daunting. I never wanted divorce for the hope of finding something better, but rather just to get out of this unending cesspool of pain and try to just heal. At any rate, I feel as if I've already gone through the worst of 'divorcitis'. I know it wouldn't solve everything. All I want is for my wife and I to work and to have a thriving marriage. I don't want to give up. I can't give up. Divorce is not an option. I have to tell myself these things every day, lest my mind wanders down that path again where I know my heart just won't be able to take it. So for now I'm idling, my heart paralyzed so I can't feel the pain that I know is there. Heck, I'm sure you guys can see in my posts that I start off kind of strong and in control, but by the end of my posts I end up being a depressed blob of fail, since I'm stirring up the contents of my own heart. It hurts so much. Once again, I just don't know what to do. And even if I did, I don't know if I have the strength to do it.
To add onto all of this, I feel as if I don't have anyone I can turn to for any emotional support or advice. I have burnt out everyone I could have turned to already. IE all my friends and mentors have chosen to one of two camps and don't want to talk about it again until a decision has been made: either divorce is my only option, or to just grin and bear it because this is what I signed up for, so deal with it. Both options leave me with an immeasurable sense of hopelessness. I suppose this is why I am here. I don't know what I'm searching for, but I know I'm searching for something. I feel so alone in the world, as if I've become a burden to those whom I love. In fact, I have found myself on occasion trying to talk to my wife about my problems and feelings, but of course, they are all about her so all it does is drive a wedge even further between us. I know this is horrible and I haven't done it for quite some time now, but the damage is done, you know?
So here I sit, hopeless and walled up. Going day through day hoping that things might miraculously change. I honestly can't see how they can unless my wife starts taking steps to overcoming her issues. I know that if I were to just catch a glimpse of this, it will be all I need to find the strength to go on.
So please don't judge me; this is honestly where I am at. To tell me that I shouldn't be thinking these things, feeling these things, or having these attitudes I have won't help anything. I already know this. I just don't know how to get all this information from my head to my heart and soul. They are so closed off that I feel as if I don't even have access to them anymore.
- Drifter
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I have been pushed past my breaking point. But instead of exploding, I have chosen to implode, since there is no one to help pick up the pieces.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 8:18:06 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1752
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drifter17
So this is where I've been at for the last year or so. My depression has especially gotten worse since the beginning of this year. I don't know how many of you out there have ever been depressed, or have ever been depressed for more than 6 months, but it is completely inundating. I feel as if I do not have the strength left to fight for our marriage. Though it pains me to openly admit it, I guess on some levels I don't trust God to see me through this, since I was doing everything he wanted of me. I was following his instructions, the Bible, and the suggestions of trusted pastors and still this is where I've ended up. I guess this is why I feel like prayer won't work. I don't blame God for where I am at, I just don't trust that he is going to get me out of this mess, if that makes sense. "I got myself into this, and so I need to get myself out. No one is going to do my job for me" I suppose is my mentality.
Yes, and YES. I know exactly where you are. I spent probably two years in a deep depression that was a combination of post-partum, grieving after my mom died in a car accident (in the midst of my post partum) and realizing at the same time (gasp) that my dh isn't perfect. Not to minimize where you're at but, to be perfectly honest, you're certainly not the first person to feel this way. Far from it. Go get a big fat shot of estrogen right now and see how you feel. Welcome to my world.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drifter17
So please don't judge me; this is honestly where I am at. To tell me that I shouldn't be thinking these things, feeling these things, or having these attitudes I have won't help anything. I already know this. I just don't know how to get all this information from my head to my heart and soul. They are so closed off that I feel as if I don't even have access to them anymore.
- Drifter
And I'd be the last person to judge. I wallowed for years right where you are - self pity, self loathing, self absorbed....see the common thread here? I'd just like to save you some time and further pain. I came VERY close to destroying my entire life, destroying my family, and quite frankly just losing my mind completely. There were days I truly thought I'd lost it!! I was not a rational person.
So what? I had the same choice you have - stay there or do something about it. You started your post out talking about your thought life. You cannot for a minute claim that's something you're a victim of of something you can't do anything about. The Bible over and over tells us to reign in our thoughts. It's not on this computer but I sat down one day and searched for all the verses about the mind. It's a huge can of worms, and people can claim depression to be hormonal, medical, or whatever but quite often it's spiritual or just simple flesh. I realized one day that depression is also a matter of pride - wanting to have, do, or be something more or other than what God has called you to.
Someone said it earlier but you are so very young. There's so much good God can do in your life and in your marriage if you just stop it! Let go, refocus, and let Him handle it. Is it flippant to tell you to just stop it?!?! Maybe. But it really is that simple. Or at least that's where it starts.
Again, where's your focus? It seems like your focus flashes back and forth between her faults and your feelings. Where has that gotten you? Stop it.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 8:20:35 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 624
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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Drifter, I see that you've read marriage books but you never said whether you've read the one I mentioned in post #29:
quote:
Drifter, reading this book (Discovering the Mind of A Woman) https://lifepartners.org/store.htmlm will change your marriage if you apply the principles it teaches.
Have you sought counseling and/or medication for the depression? Counseling really does help a lot as long as you find a good licensed Christian one. Meds can also help a lot sometimes. I have suffered from depression before and have also dealt with anxiety disorder. It's not much fun but it can and will get better. You've mentioned your wife's issues and what you've tried to get her to do about them but you haven't mentioned what help you've sought for your issues? (And by this I don't mean the counsel you sought on how to get your wife to change or get help for her issues.)
Your wife may have her issues but don't we all? There's nothing in your posts that indicate a problem that can't be worked out in time. Your wife doesn't sound all that bad from what you are sharing here. At least she is loving towards you even if it isn't the right love language. The fact that she is reaching out to you with her language of touch means that she is feeling connected and loving towards you. JMO. So it may not do as much for you as it does for her but at least you can see that the intentions are good. You'll know that you have a real problem on your hands when she grows cold and distant towards you to the point that she stops reaching out in that way. I hope things don't get to that point though.
ETA: Did you take note of hnt's post? I really like the point she made about how God may have a plan for you that you aren't aware of that He is preparing you for even now. God said that our ways are not His ways, right? Perhaps you were mistaking your own dreams and desires for His will. Many times they are not one and the same.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 8:23:47 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1752
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
Your wife may have her issues but don't we all? There's nothing in your posts that indicate a problem that can't be worked out in time. Your wife doesn't sound all that bad from what you are sharing here.
She doesn't sound as bad as the bratty head case my dh married!!
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/5/2008 9:39:37 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1042
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
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It occurred to me to wonder what role unforgiveness might be playing in this situation.
It seems like the woman seriously misled you in order to get you to marry her. Have you forgiven her for that act of deception?
Or are you still trying to hold her to what she said back then and/or resenting her daily failure to live up to it? Because people who have given unconditional forgiveness from the heart aren't driven nuts by that kind of daily struggle.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/6/2008 12:02:03 AM
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drifter17
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Yes, and YES. I know exactly where you are. I spent probably two years in a deep depression that was a combination of post-partum, grieving after my mom died in a car accident (in the midst of my post partum) and realizing at the same time (gasp) that my dh isn't perfect. Not to minimize where you're at but, to be perfectly honest, you're certainly not the first person to feel this way. Far from it. Go get a big fat shot of estrogen right now and see how you feel. Welcome to my world.
Well thank you for the bludgeoning over the head. As I've said earlier, I know I should be able to do these things, but they are far easier said than done. I am glad that you were able to get over your depression. And I don't mean to seem disrespectful or hostile, truly, but this discussion isn't about your depression, and I am not interested in a 'contest' of sorts to see who's had it worse. Still, I appreciate the points you made and | | |
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