RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive.....
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 10:22:04 AM
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Fledgling
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Greetings everyone,
I am a newby to truly studying the bible, and this is also a topic that intrigues me.
In quoting the bible you left out - Genesis 6:3
This is from the Complete Jewish Bible.
Genesis 6
2.the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
3.ADONAI said, "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years."
When ADONAI says “My Spirit will not live in human beings forever”, This alludes to the fallen angel theory. God has to make a change in life span of human beings because of something that has happened.
I would propose that what has happened is described in the previous sentence. “sons of God saw the daughters of men were attractive, and they took wives for themselves”.. It does say “sons of God” and then the women are “daughters of men” and the “sons of God” did whatever they chose, this alludes to them being more powerful then the average human in as much as they could do whatever they wanted.
I humbly propose that this is another way that evil came into the world. Human beings did not originally know evil, only God and Angels knew evil. Fallen Angels interbreeding with humans introduces more evil into the world. If God and Angels know good and evil.. well then it would follow that they can also choose to be good or evil.
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 11:45:11 AM
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solarflare
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Uh, don't think so.....sin was brought into the world when Eve ate from the forbidden tree and gave some to Adam who also ate.
Gen. 6:3...this was prior to the flood...when all of mankind except for Noah and his family, were wiped out.
Not too sure what you mean by :"another way that evil came into the world." Scripture teaches that sin entered the world through disobedience BEFORE the sons of God married the daughters of men.
Really not too sure what you are trying to say.........?
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 2:25:06 PM
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BerianAardvark
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quote:
Fledgling: If God and Angels know good and evil.. well then it would follow that they can also choose to be good or evil.
It is one thing to know something on an intellectual level and a completely different thing to know it on an experiential level.
Up until the time Adam and Eve chomped that forbidden fruit they had known only good, they likely knew that to disobey God would be not good, but until they did so, they did not know evil except (perhaps) in the abstract.
God cannot choose to do evil since that would be to go against His very nature as God (the source of all good), though He understands it. To chose to do something that goes against His nature would be to chose to no longer be God...which is no more possible than my choosing to be God would make it true.
The angles did have a choice and some did chose evil (they are fallen angels, and followed Satan) , and after that event they were no longer referred to as angles, but rather demons and evil spirits.
But angels, being spirit have no bodies (though they may from time to time assume human form) making mating with humans rather difficult. No mater how realistic such a form may be it would lack those things which would make it a real true human being (like the ability to reproduce).
There is absolutely no evidence that angles have the power to create anything of a physical nature, indeed scripture says that all things created are created by through and for Jesus:
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16)
That is a pretty comprehensive list, and decidedly leaves no room for creation of anything by angels.
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 2:42:03 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
The angles did have a choice and some did chose evil (they are fallen angels, and followed Satan) , and after that event they were no longer referred to as angles, but rather demons and evil spirits.
Where does it say in the Bible that evil spirts were once angels? I really have not found that reference?
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 4:50:12 PM
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Fledgling
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Here is a reference to "evil angels" .. isnt Satan a fallen angel?
Psalms 78
49.He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
50.He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;
Isa 14:12
12.How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13.For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14.I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
< Message edited by Fledgling -- 8/13/2008 4:56:31 PM >
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 4:55:06 PM
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solarflare
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Yes....but where do we find angels are turned into evil spirits? I'm being serious here.....I have read quite a bit on this topic and it seems no one can prove conclusively that evil spirits are actually the fallen angels.
I used to think so myself, but it seems to be more of a gray area now..
Thanks!
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 5:33:09 PM
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Fledgling
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Here is another place where the "sons of God" are mentioned and Satan is amoung them. I am not exactly sure what this means
Job 1:6
6.Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7.And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said , From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8.And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9.Then Satan answered the LORD, and said , Doth Job fear God for nought?
10.Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11.But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12.And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
and again in Job 2:1
1.Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2.And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said , From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3.And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4.And Satan answered the LORD, and said , Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5.But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6.And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Also
Luk 11:18 18.If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand ? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub. devils - here translates to G1140
δαιμόνιον
daimonion
dahee-mon'-ee-on
Neuter of a derivative of G1142; a daemonic being; by extension a deity: - devil, god.
Rev 12:9
9.And the great dragon was cast out , that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Could Satans Angels be his ministers spoke of below? ministers translates to diakonos
dee-ak'-on-os
Probably from διάκω diakō (obsolete, to run on errands; compare G1377); an attendant, that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specifically a Christian teacher and pastor (technically a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant.
2Co 11:14 13.For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14.And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15.Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 5:33:41 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
I'm thinking this would be a great subject for a new thread.
I guess so......when things are not as clear as we think they should be, some people get nervous and defensive. Like this thread, I don't think we can be 100% clear on any conclusion regarding 'the Sons of God' either....although I have understood it to mean Sons of God and not mankind, as it is so translated elsewhere in the Bible.
Speaking personally, I find it best to just hold what I think (rather than can prove) loosely and not go down fighting with it. 
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 5:39:39 PM
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solarflare
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Hey there Fledgling.....the book of Ephesians actually describes Satan's kingdom this way: 6:12 "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
There are other passages which suggest different levels of spiritual wickedness as well.
When Scripture is not 100% clear on something, we cannot 'fill in the blanks' so to speak. Which is not to say don't stufy - because that is exactly what we all should be doing 
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 6:32:57 PM
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Fledgling
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I hope I did not come accross as fighting.. I am merely trying to understand and study.. I guess thats just me.. I like to disect things until I really understand them...
I am a computer programmer and a detail person.. the intent is not to make right or wrong merely to bring up things for discussion for the purpose of further understanding..
I find the bible facinating and interesting.. also the bible is our weapon of defence against Satan.. so we need to really know it and understand it for this reason.
Wow the description of Satan's kingdom in Ephesians sounds like fallen angels.. or am I filling in the blanks?
Also the idea that things are not as clear as they should be in the bible does not make sense, if you consider the bible is Gods word and Gods word is perfect.. in that case every thing is spelled out perfectly.
< Message edited by Fledgling -- 8/13/2008 6:39:46 PM >
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 7:43:02 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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In no way shape or form did I interpret anything you wrote as 'fighting'.
A person should be able to express what they truly think .. my only qualm is with some who do so in an aggressive manner that in and of itself says more than what they actually write
I am very much a detail person myself and I enjoy 'trading' thoughts. I just do not like people telling me what I think or what they think I think.
I never had that impression from you.
With regards to God's Word being perfect: That does not mean we always understand it perfectly. And, you will find that people do not always agree.
Please remember that Paul stated that we know in part...meaning that we do not know 'perfectly.' I Cor. 13:9 So, it is OK not to know everything.
Things are as clear as God 'allows' them to be. We are a fallen race...sinful and extremely proud. God is merciful and has given us all we need to know for our salvation. I believe things are left out on purpose and, interestingly, some things are included which lead to speculation........
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 8:25:37 PM
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Fledgling
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I am sorry .. I truley did not mean to come off as being agressive. And I do understand that the bible can be perfect but we as unperfect humans are not able to perfectly understand it.
My intent in asking questions is true understanding... and like my name implies I am a fledgling.
Sometimes text void of expression can be mis-interpreted.. for instance when I said "or am I filling in the blanks" well that was a sincere consideration.. it was not sarcasm or aggression.. it was an I dont know am I or am I not.
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 8/13/2008 10:02:30 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
I am sorry .. I truley did not mean to come off as being agressive.
I never thought you were aggressive. Don't worry about it. 
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RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attr... - 9/3/2008 10:23:40 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Heb 13:2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.
This verse indicates that angels can have flesh and blood doesn't it? If you can mistake them for normal people..... Also Jacob wrestled with an angel so he had to be able to touch it. I know angel's are spirtual beings but I guess they can also be physical beings.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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