Bringing the bar into church (Full Version)

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deliveredarling -> Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 6:35:30 PM)

This one really knotted my feathers![:@]

There is a man I know who has decided to bring the bar into church. he is a musician and has decided to have a jam session in the church itself, as it is not very big. He also will change the name to ******** Free Church. I have not heard if this is with the pastor's blessing or not, yet. The above statement is how it was presented to me without further detail.
The idea itself is absolutely appalling to me. What do you think about it?



MrFribbles -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 6:54:23 PM)

I am a bit confused. How, exactly, is this man bringing the bar into church? Is there alcohol being served?



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 8:16:08 PM)

My understanding is that it will be BYOB. Friends from the bar have been invited to jam.



McFatty -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 8:27:09 PM)

Alcohol and music are not sinful. I don't know the other circumstances, but there doesn't seem to be an inherent problem. The fact that these people are coming into a congregational building is already a good sign. Have some people there to talk with them about God, maybe.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 8:53:03 PM)

Talk about God, crank some tunes, get hammered... See Jesus, oh wait that's the bass player...[8D]

John



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 10:25:43 PM)

Should bar atmosphere be displayed in a church building?

There are already establishments for that. Why the need to desecrate the House of God?



martyfran -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 10:26:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

My understanding is that it will be BYOB. Friends from the bar have been invited to jam.


Do you have any scripture that would suggest that there is something wrong with this?



humbleinspirit -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/22/2008 10:26:46 PM)

Is his new idea non-profit?



MrFribbles -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 12:25:07 AM)

Personally, I'd have no problem with it. The church building is just that - a building. As long as the event doesn't promote drunkenness, or some other form of sinful behavior, I don't see where the issue is.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 12:38:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

Should bar atmosphere be displayed in a church building?


Nope.

Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment. When I think "bar", I don't think holy.

I think it's disrespectful.

If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".



MrFribbles -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 12:57:19 AM)

quote:

If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".


By the same token, should churches have dress codes?
Also, should church members be forbidden from driving to church in expensive cars?



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 1:10:18 AM)

Clothing and what car you drive isn't an issue as promoting bars in churches.

It's ridiculous. We're there to praise God, not "jam" with our buddies in a bar.



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 8:15:10 AM)

quote:


Do you have any scripture that would suggest that there is something wrong with this?


1Ch 29:1 Then King David said to the entire assembly, "My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is still young and inexperienced and the work is great; for the temple is not for man, but for the LORD God.


quote:

Is his new idea non-profit?

I don't know and can't speculate.

quote:

Personally, I'd have no problem with it. The church building is just that - a building. As long as the event doesn't promote drunkenness, or some other form of sinful behavior, I don't see where the issue is.

Well, temple in the NT according to Strong's is:
1) sacred, consecrated to the deity, pertaining to God
a) sacred scriptures, because inspired by God, treating of divine things and therefore to be devoutly revered.

So it appears to be more than just a building to God.

quote:


Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment. When I think "bar", I don't think holy.

I think it's disrespectful.


Couldn't agree with you more.

Look at the reaction Jesus had to the money changers in His House. Can we really expect Him to be any less angry for this to occur now?



ddave12000 -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 8:38:37 AM)

What if he's trying to get them out of the bar and start a different kind of relationship with them? What if he's trying to get people who are uncomfortable going into a church comfortable with it?



KatMack -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 8:58:16 AM)

While I do agree that this is wrong, I have to disagree with your applying the 2 Chronicles scripture about the temple to this. The OT Temple and the NT church are VERY different creatures. According to the NT WE are now the temple. The Spirit of God resides in us, not in a building.

--Kat



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 8:59:14 AM)

quote:

What if he's trying to get them out of the bar and start a different kind of relationship with them? What if he's trying to get people who are uncomfortable going into a church comfortable with it?


Ok, what if it's shameless self promotion or he moved the scene to his own turf because he didn't have enough attention at the bar????

Here is an update: No more mention of byob, now it's refreshments and gourmet coffee being served. The cost is free, so it's non profit.



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:01:54 AM)

quote:

The OT Temple and the NT church are VERY different creatures. According to the NT WE are now the temple. The Spirit of God resides in us, not in a building.

--Kat


They aren't really that different, the NT expands on the temple definition by the "assembling", the sacredness did not change. The money changers ex supports that.



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:07:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrapeApe



Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment.

Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?

Frankly, I like the idea in the OP.



JimboFletch -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:09:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".

If someone heard that a big fellowship meal was being held at a church, would it make sense that they automatically would assume that morbid obesity or bulimia or anorexia is okay?

If so, that sounds like pretty lame logic to me.



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:15:58 AM)

quote:


Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?


So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?


This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.



WesP -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:17:34 AM)

I have always believed that the church building was a place dedicated to focusing on God. I go to church to worship the Lord. I do not believe anything that takes the focus away from God should be there. Alcohol certainly does not promote greater focus. [&:]



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:17:43 AM)

quote:


If someone heard that a big fellowship meal was being held at a church, would it make sense that they automatically would assume that morbid obesity or bulimia or anorexia is okay?


You forget that the alcoholic has a truly warped sense of reasoning. (let me qualify that: Active alcoholic)



WesP -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:18:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

quote:


Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?


So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?


This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.


It is called moral relativism, and it is destroying society. [:(]



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:20:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

quote:


Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?


So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?


This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.

But didn't He do that Himself? For the very purpose of saving that which was lost?



deliveredarling -> RE: Bringing the bar into church (7/23/2008 9:21:44 AM)

quote:


But didn't He do that Himself? For the very purpose of saving that which was lost?


Please clarify, I'm not sure what you mean here.



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