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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 12:51:51 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
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quote:
Its not in his definition, but y'all keep adding it...
I didn't add anything to his definition. He corrected me remember?
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 12:55:31 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
OK. Here goes. At the start you were talking about a "jam session" in church being a bad thing. I went to dictionary.com and found the following two results for "jam session".
1. a meeting of a group of musicians, esp. jazz musicians, to play for their own enjoyment.
2. an impromptu jazz performance or special performance by jazz musicians who do not regularly play together.
Didn't mention "bar", "bar scene", or "bar factor". That's your idea. Above you will see exactly what a "jam session is. It has nothing to do with alcohol and everything to do with music.
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
It was really reaching to give a definition for "jam session"? You say it's about alcohol, yet you've shown no proof for that view. I showed that it's all about music. And I gave proof.
Show me where dude put in "showing off"
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"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:07:37 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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None of those are quotes from Armydude. They are all from Doughorton.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:08:35 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
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Thank you QTMan.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:10:41 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
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So, last I checked.... armydude is NOT Doug Horton, right?
Showing off HAS been added to dude's definitions....?
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:13:38 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
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My best guess is that you should take this issue up with him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:15:53 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10058
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
My best guess is that you should take this issue up with him.
Which him?
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:15:58 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4070
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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I guess you have to be drunk in order to improvise......
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:20:54 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
My best guess is that you should take this issue up with him.
My point was that you were not representing armydude's words, but had changed them.... I am just asking that you clarify and say that yes, you added Doug Horton's showing off term to armydude's dictionary def's.
Otherwise it seems that you are intentionally being dishonest.
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 1:27:44 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
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quote:
My point was that you were not representing armydude's words, but had changed them.... I am just asking that you clarify and say that yes, you added Doug Horton's showing off term to armydude's dictionary def's.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Please reread from the beginning and post where you are coming up with this stuff. I only poked at Doug for his usage og jamming. it was kind of a good natured poke at Armydude. nothing intentionally offensive.
Where you get the misrepresentation from, I really don't have a clue.
If your going to say it, back it up with proof. If I am wrong, I will admit it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 3:48:29 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
quote:
A jam session is an inpromptu gathering of musicians to play improvisations together
As I said, showing off.
You keep using this term. I guess you do not play an instrument. There is no and I repeat no showing off necessary nor in the definition. The definition does not even imply such.
I agree, Sam. I guess if one can't carry a tune in a bucket, I suppose they might perceive excellence in playing showing off. But among musicians, improvising only becomes showing off when it no longer contributes to the musical setting.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:02:35 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 920
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From: Georgia
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quote:
As far as showing off, do you play golf, tennis, have a job, etc. Do you put forth your best effort at these skills. Then according to your logic applied here you are guilty of showing off. You see that's all a bunch of musicians do. Gather in one place and put forth their best effort.
That's fine, but it has no place in corporate worship.
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:04:43 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
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The way I can tell the OP has gone so far is this....
Originally, the offense was that musicians were going to come and play (lead by this worship leader) with the appearance that alcohol would be tolerated/promoted.
Then, it was modified to say that now there would be no alcohol, but rather gourmet coffee....
Then it wasn't the drinks at all that were the problem, but rather an unworthy/unliked worhip leader that was the husband of the OP's best friend...
Then, now it is the definition of what constitutes a "jam session" and what kind of focus is placed on the musicians/leaders....
Is this a fair assessment of the story so far?
The 2 sides appear to be as to whether the church building is meant for worship only or not....
Also, as to whether playing with other musicians for fun is "prideful" or "self-serving"....
My thoughts....
Music in and of itself is not evil.
Alcohol in and of itself is not evil.
Worship Leaders should be held accountable and judged according to their motive and fruit, but also must be prayed over and prayed for.
Churches are buildings, we as God's people should be good stewards of what He has given us.
The Greatest thing God has given us is the ministry to those that are lost and we are to remember that we were once just like them, but for the grace of God.
I think God wants us to reach the lost - however He tells us to do it.
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:08:38 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 920
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
1. a meeting of a group of musicians, esp. jazz musicians, to play for their own enjoyment.
church
1. a building for public Christian worship.
Hmmm...
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:17:48 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 920
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
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My original point, before we were distracted by definitions, was that if the musicians are any good, they should be taking the church to the bars.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:19:11 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6631
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
quote:
1. a meeting of a group of musicians, esp. jazz musicians, to play for their own enjoyment.
church
1. a building for public Christian worship.
Hmmm...
That's all people EVER do in your church building?
Hmmm...
Or are you implying jazz musicians can't be Christian?
Hmmm...
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:19:53 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/23/2005
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Ok. and if they do... when is it appropriate to try to get the bar musicians into a church?
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:20:43 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
The 2 sides appear to be as to whether the church building is meant for worship only or not....
That would be the gist of the op. I don't remember what prompted me to divulge the leader's character. Feel free to go back and pull it up, if you wish.
I stated over and over that he was a side issue and I would feel the same way should he not be apart of it.
A jam session ( I know the definition has already been qualified, however the wife is a musician too and this is her term and the title of the affair) under the premise of serving alcohol in a church, imo, is disrespectful and unacceptable in a church.
Let's be clear here: This "jam session" Is not/has not been promoted as an out reach to the lost. That in itself is a problem for me, being held and advertised in a church.
When I posted the op alcohol was a part of it. When I found out that had been modified, I updated the post. It was the right thing to do.
The debate continued as if alcohol was still apart of it. I went with it because people would post questions and I responded.
The post is what it is. The topic is a bar atmosphere being portrayed in a church. People's ideas and experiences with bar atmospheres differ. Opinions differ, it's the point of debate.
For someone to think that a post is intentionally deceptive means (in this thread) that I have the power to read minds and can intentionally post things to throw people off.
I've not posted things like that in the past and didn't do so here.
Nor do I feel the need to twist people's words to win an argument. It's just not that important. Some have good thoughts that make me rethink my position, however on this one, my position remains. If that offends some, that I'm not swayed by your thought provoking posts, I'm sorry.
God's house is a place of worship and prayer and wholesome functions. It portrays safety and refuge to the world. To make it look no different to the world, imo, is denying Who God is.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:21:39 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 920
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
quote:
1. a meeting of a group of musicians, esp. jazz musicians, to play for their own enjoyment.
church
1. a building for public Christian worship.
Hmmm...
That's all people EVER do in your church building?
Hmmm...
Or are you implying jazz musicians can't be Christian?
Hmmm...
I did not make either such statement.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/25/2008 5:25:18 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/23/2005
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Ok.. well if the church is meant for only worship.... That would limit many more things than just the "jam sessions"....
Wholesome functions are hard to define -as one's heart condition can determine is the potluck is wholesome or not.... Gossip has reigned in many a potluck....
I am also getting the impression from Doug that evangelism is ONLY to occur outside the church building as well, (if I am wrong in this impression, I would like for him to clarify).
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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