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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:19:23 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Do you really believe this means to never do anything any unsaved person does?
Our sin nature makes this notion inevitable. We fall short just as the unsaved.
I don't believe the physical church should be a place where questionable things are practiced. Scripture tells us to flee from the appearance of evil.
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol". An image of alcoholic nature isn't an example that a church should be setting, in my opinion. Whatever a church does, it should always consider Christ and not our own desires.
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol", not "alcoholic".
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:20:24 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1875
Status: offline
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quote:
Show me these lines, if you will.
I already started with some of the scripture, you want me to continue? It will make for a very long read, but I'm happy to do it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:24:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Again, you don't understand what I'm saying.
Yes I do... You want thing both ways... When it worked for you a building is just a building and later the same building became a church building and that alone can stir up thoughts of Christ...
quote:
You're stuck on that one phrase, whose meaning you have decided on and you won't listen to my elaborations and explanations.
Actually I holding you to what you said... You are now attempting to change the meaning of what you said...
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:26:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Who said I wanted the law thing to go away? I simply don't want this thread thrown into one-stop land. If there were a one-stop for the fruit of the spirit, I wouldn't be talking about that here either.
Sure thing...
quote:
Just those who don't act with gentleness and kindness, but condemnation might not be the right word; it implies harshness.
Ok... yet you said:
My question is why do so many Christians not trust the Spirit to guide our brothers? So many people feel they have to lay down law after law for everyone.
John
Do you believe you have to condemn people to teach them to follow the Spirit?
You tell me, you are the one on watch for certain folks... Yet at the same time you question why so many Christians don't trust the Spirit to guide their brothers and feel they have to lay down law after law for everyone.
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:27:21 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 8754
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol", not "alcoholic".
Did I just not say, "When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol"? I thought so.
alcoholic:
of, pertaining to, or of the nature of alcohol.
Yes, the church would be portraying an alcoholic nature.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:31:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Do you really believe this means to never do anything any unsaved person does?
Our sin nature makes this notion inevitable. We fall short just as the unsaved.
I don't believe the physical church should be a place where questionable things are practiced. Scripture tells us to flee from the appearance of evil.
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol". An image of alcoholic nature isn't an example that a church should be setting, in my opinion. Whatever a church does, it should always consider Christ and not our own desires.
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol", not "alcoholic".
Of course... And a lie isn't a lie, it's an explanation... Stealing is either borrowing for a extend amoun,t time, or taking what should be yours anyways, God is something you make fun of, fornication is a French word...
Yet, a building with some religious decorations will make them think of God?
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:52:04 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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John, do you just have fun exaggerating what others say to make it sound bad?
Since you are dead set on arguing about what you think I believe about church buildings, read what I'm going to say. This is what I believe, and my explanation of what I said earlier. You don't have to like it, but I am not changing anything, except maybe what you thought my words meant.
A building is just a building. Remember the gymnasium thing? Is a gymnasium more than just a building? I don't think so. However, it has aspects which may remind people of certain activities normally taking place at a gymnasium. How is this complicated?
I am on the watch for people, but I don't feel I need to lay down law after law for everyone. Why didn't you want to answer my question (Do you believe you have to condemn people to teach them to follow the Spirit)?
Do you not see a difference between someone who drinks alcohol and an alcoholic? What's up with your sarcastic comparisons? Why must you do that?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 6:53:20 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol", not "alcoholic".
Did I just not say, "When the secular community thinks "bar", they think "alcohol"? I thought so.
alcoholic:
of, pertaining to, or of the nature of alcohol.
Yes, the church would be portraying an alcoholic nature.
"Alcoholic" most commonly means someone addicted to alcohol or the condition of being addicted to alcohol. That isn't on the minds of most people when they think "bar".
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:03:02 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1875
Status: offline
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quote:
That isn't on the minds of most people when they think "bar".
That would be an incorrect answer from this corner. (former alcoholic)
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:03:44 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15912
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Your opinion is that it's impossible for people to have a seed planted within them while playing music.
Nope, never said that one, nor is it my opinion.
I don't think seeds will be planted in a place where they are not trying to grow a garden.
So now you're saying that you know this man's intentions.
_____________________________
Nothing is certain but death and taxes?
No.
There is nothing certain but the Word of God.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:20:14 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1875
Status: offline
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Fruit is kind of telling......
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:20:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
John, do you just have fun exaggerating what others say to make it sound bad?
Ad hominem....
quote:
Since you are dead set on arguing about what you think I believe about church buildings, read what I'm going to say. This is what I believe, and my explanation of what I said earlier. You don't have to like it, but I am not changing anything, except maybe what you thought my words meant.
I don't agree... You are not only changing things, but you want it both ways... You argue it's just a building like any other and say it has influnce as well, as just a building...
quote:
A building is just a building. Remember the gymnasium thing? Is a gymnasium more than just a building? I don't think so. However, it has aspects which may remind people of certain activities normally taking place at a gymnasium. How is this complicated?
It's not complicated at all, and it's also not a very good anology...
Since you said the following...
It's(the building used for a church) not just a box. It's a building with decorations and certain items characteristic of a church building which could easily prompt someone tho think about Christ.
Btw... I mean to add prior that it's a reach to mention Christ... At best it may prompt someone to think of religion...
quote:
I am on the watch for people, but I don't feel I need to lay down law after law for everyone.
So you like just take notes or something?
quote:
Why didn't you want to answer my question (Do you believe you have to condemn people to teach them to follow the Spirit)?
I was more interested in why you were on the lookout for certain people given what you have said prior about the Holy Spirit guiding people, and your aversion to the Law... I meant to get back an answer after I got back from Current Events...
No, since man is born condemned...
quote:
Do you not see a difference between someone who drinks alcohol and an alcoholic? What's up with your sarcastic comparisons? Why must you do that?
I know the difference and know those outside the church think there is nothing wrong with getting drunk... Nothing sarcastic about what I said... What I said was the truth... The world is all about rationalizing things...
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:24:27 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15912
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Fruit is kind of telling......
It very much is, but are we called to bear fruit or inspect other people's fruit?
And it's usually a good idea when the issue of our fruit being "telling" is brought up to remember that other people make judgments about us based on what they see too. They could be wrong too...
_____________________________
Nothing is certain but death and taxes?
No.
There is nothing certain but the Word of God.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:27:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
It very much is, but are we called to bear fruit or inspect other people's fruit?
Both... If not we would just stand by while a brother and sister in Christ wallows in sin...
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:41:07 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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John, I never said anything about getting drunk. I was talking about drinking alcohol. These are two very different things. Not everything has to be turned into evil. Someone who is an alcoholic and someone who drinks a beer while playing a guitar are two very different people. Can you not see this?
Again, it seems pointless for us to argue about what you think I believe about the building. You refuse to listen to me, so what can I say?
I like just take notes or something? No, when I'm watching people, I'm talking about watching those who talk about God and finding out if they display the fruits, so as to know whether to take their teachings into consideration. If I see someone who I think needs to be rebuked, I try to do so as gently and lovingly as possible without a "You're wrong. I'm right." attitude. I think that sort of attitude tends to drive people away more than anything else. That's the "condemn" thing I mean. Perhaps I used the wrong word. I apologize if I wasn't as clear as I otherwise could have been. I believe it's more effective to remind them to trust God to guide them and remind them of the good things they could do, rather than just talking about the bad things they're "not allowed to".
Are you saying that "a lie is not a lie" isn't a sarcastic remark?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:41:50 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1875
Status: offline
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quote:
He is a leader of music in the church. His wife is the one who told me of the jam night. The info presented is exactly what she said.
He is a gambler that doesn't take care of his family, he refuses to get a job, won't allow his wife to be on the praise team because his pride was hurt, emotionally abusive and more, but I'm giving you a good picture.
1Ti 3:1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires {to do.}
1Ti 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
1Ti 3:4 {He must be} one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
1Ti 3:5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
1Ti 3:6 {and} not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
1Ti 3:7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside {the church,} so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise {must be} men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Ti 3:9 {but} holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.
Sure seems like I am consistent with scripture. Point out, exactly, what you find to be inconsistent, would you please.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:42:22 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
That isn't on the minds of most people when they think "bar".
That would be an incorrect answer from this corner. (former alcoholic)
So you're saying that "bar", more often than not, translates to "alcoholics"???
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:49:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
John, I never said anything about getting drunk. I was talking about drinking alcohol. These are two very different things. Not everything has to be turned into evil. Someone who is an alcoholic and someone who drinks a beer while playing a guitar are two very different people. Can you not see this?
Red herring... I have never said otherwise.... I made the statement that being a drunk is not an issue for those outside the church... I didn't say someone who has a beer while playing a guitar is the same.. In fact I made a point more than once during my replies to say that doing so was not sinful...
quote:
Again, it seems pointless for us to argue about what you think I believe about the building. You refuse to listen to me, so what can I say?
You believe you can have it both ways...
quote:
I like just take notes or something? No, when I'm watching people, I'm talking about watching those who talk about God and finding out if they display the fruits, so as to know whether to take their teachings into consideration. If I see someone who I think needs to be rebuked, I try to do so as gently and lovingly as possible without a "You're wrong. I'm right." attitude.
To rebuke someone is telling them they are wrong... Can't get around that, well maybe you can... :P
quote:
Are you saying that "a lie is not a lie" isn't a sarcastic remark?
Nope... The secular world calls lies, explanations...
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:50:01 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15912
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
If we as Christians act like the world, we deny the saving power of God. We deny His power to change live, hearts and minds. Us looking and acting like the world does not separate us or even remotely set us apart. We blend in, thus denying God by our actions.
Exactly! We go out to evangelize. We come to church to worship. Different places for different purposes.
Another thought. So, we go out to evangelize. That doesn't include inviting people to our church for functions? Basically, people need to be fixed up a bit before they can come to church?
I just saw this. Excellent point Lioness!
And delivered, I'm looking up the inconsistencies in question. I'll be back in a minute.
_____________________________
Nothing is certain but death and taxes?
No.
There is nothing certain but the Word of God.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:52:36 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1875
Status: offline
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quote:
So you're saying that "bar", more often than not, translates to "alcoholics"???
Cool your jets Mcfatty, that was said intending some humor. However, I saw many, many alcoholics in bars.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/24/2008 7:58:10 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2358
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
However, I saw many, many alcoholics in bars.
Do you still regularly frequent the bars?
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