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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/24/2008 4:20:09 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Please show me the verse where the Bible says we are supposed to go out of our way to angrily condemn the pagans.
Righteous indignation has its place...
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Paul certainly addresses sin in the Church, but he notes a difference between the standards for non-believers and believers.
Paul is speaking to jurisdiction... Why the church can remove the unrepentant fornicator, it doesn’t have the jurisdiction to remove a non-member since they are for that matter already removed so to speak… As for standards, there is only one... Christian (should be) are held to a higher standard and because they know better, that doesn't necessarily lower the bar for mankind....
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Yes, and my simple question is whether angrily saying that someone is worse than a Nazi, perpetrates genocide, or is a Godless Liberal is necessarily the best way to communicate truth.
Simply... At 50,000,000+ and counting, 3500 a day, those who support, condone, have, and perform abortion have passed the Nazis a long time ago...
You see... The problem is the truth that people want to to hear is not that abortion is wrong, but that God understands, don't worry it's not really murder, everyone that has one is a victim, and nobody really wants it to happen...
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At the very least, Dobson is one of those people with the signs and megaphones shouting that God hates sinners and everyone is going to hell.
He actually has a sign that says that?
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Some would say that this doesn't make a very effective witness.
I am sure some would say that Jesus wasn't a very effective witness... A lot of his own people didn't believe He was...
John
Hello Mr. Dobson!
quote:
"One of Jim's worst traits is that of demonizing those who differ with him by exaggerating or omitting part of their reasoning in order to make their views seem preposterous.
You are seeing here the origins of another distinctive feature of Dobson's religious group - a robust epidemic of judgmentalism. It is inevitable that any group that expends this much energy maintaining lists of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, cultivating an outward appearance of abhorring one list and living by another and taking pride in being different from society, will emit a strong odor of finding fault with others."
James Dobson's War on America
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/24/2008 4:51:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Please show me the verse where the Bible says we are supposed to go out of our way to angrily condemn the pagans.
Righteous indignation has its place...
quote:
Paul certainly addresses sin in the Church, but he notes a difference between the standards for non-believers and believers.
Paul is speaking to jurisdiction... Why the church can remove the unrepentant fornicator, it doesn’t have the jurisdiction to remove a non-member since they are for that matter already removed so to speak… As for standards, there is only one... Christian (should be) are held to a higher standard and because they know better, that doesn't necessarily lower the bar for mankind....
quote:
Yes, and my simple question is whether angrily saying that someone is worse than a Nazi, perpetrates genocide, or is a Godless Liberal is necessarily the best way to communicate truth.
Simply... At 50,000,000+ and counting, 3500 a day, those who support, condone, have, and perform abortion have passed the Nazis a long time ago...
You see... The problem is the truth that people want to to hear is not that abortion is wrong, but that God understands, don't worry it's not really murder, everyone that has one is a victim, and nobody really wants it to happen...
quote:
At the very least, Dobson is one of those people with the signs and megaphones shouting that God hates sinners and everyone is going to hell.
He actually has a sign that says that?
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Some would say that this doesn't make a very effective witness.
I am sure some would say that Jesus wasn't a very effective witness... A lot of his own people didn't believe He was...
John
Hello Mr. Dobson!
quote:
"One of Jim's worst traits is that of demonizing those who differ with him by exaggerating or omitting part of their reasoning in order to make their views seem preposterous.
You are seeing here the origins of another distinctive feature of Dobson's religious group - a robust epidemic of judgmentalism. It is inevitable that any group that expends this much energy maintaining lists of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, cultivating an outward appearance of abhorring one list and living by another and taking pride in being different from society, will emit a strong odor of finding fault with others."
James Dobson's War on America
That's fine and dandy... Of course one doesn't have to demonizie anyone regarding abortion, they do so on their by their actions... Simply post the number of slaughtered children... Any reasoning from those who support such an action is preposterous when held against that number...
John
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/24/2008 4:59:32 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
That's fine and dandy... Of course one doesn't have to demonizie anyone regarding abortion, they do so on their by their actions... Simply post the number of slaughtered children... Any reasoning from those who support such an action is preposterous when held against that number...
John
Having been down this path with you before (in another thread), I suppose I should reply -
"Contraception should be free & available to everyone over the age of 18"
because -
"Any reasoning from those who don't support such an action is preposterous when held against that number..."
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 2:30:35 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
That's fine and dandy... Of course one doesn't have to demonizie anyone regarding abortion, they do so on their by their actions... Simply post the number of slaughtered children... Any reasoning from those who support such an action is preposterous when held against that number...
John
Having been down this path with you before (in another thread), I suppose I should reply -
"Contraception should be free & available to everyone over the age of 18"
because -
...you support fornication, even for children? 
John
Reading comprehension not a strong suit? 
"Everyone over the age of 18" is a child?! That'll be a big surprise to all those people in the Armed Forces fighting two wars, and really surprise all those young voters in November.
I am asking you a question... The part before the comma acknowledges what you posted, part after is follow up… Do you?
John
Sorry for the long delay (work intruded)
I believe in sex between consenting adults. Over the age of 18 is an adult. Children should not have sex.
Fornication - The origin of the word derives from Latin. The word fornix means "an archway" or "vault" (in Rome, prostitutes could be solicited there). More directly, fornicatio means "done in the archway"; thus a euphemism for prostitution. I don't support prostitution.
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Jurisdictions within the United States of America
Premarital sexual relations were viewed as a matter of private morality, and, as such, were never viewed as criminal offenses against the common law. This legal position was inherited by the United States from England.
Unmarried adults having sex is not against the law; It's a natural part of life. If you abhor that fact and feel contraception rewards an immoral act you could just be plain spoken and say it. Like Dobson, you want to paint everything in black & white.
Yes, 81% of the woman having abortions are unmarried (According to the CDC) but the CDC found that -
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.... education regarding abstinence, contraceptive use and practices as well as access to and education regarding safe, effective, and affordable contraception and family-planning services might help reduce the incidence of unintended pregnancy and, therefore, the number of legal induced abortions in the United States
When you offer accusations instead of solutions, like Dobson's "so-called" Family Reseach Council, you're part of the problem.
And please don't tell me forcing people to marry will stop abortion
< Message edited by TaoPoohBear -- 7/25/2008 5:50:34 AM >
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 6:29:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
I believe in sex between consenting adults. Over the age of 18 is an adult. Children should not have sex.
That means you believe in sin...
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Fornication - The origin of the word derives from Latin. The word fornix means "an archway" or "vault" (in Rome, prostitutes could be solicited there). More directly, fornicatio means "done in the archway"; thus a euphemism for prostitution. I don't support prostitution.
The bible refers to fornication has any sex outside of marriage... I am aware of its origins...
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Unmarried adults having sex is not against the law; It's a natural part of life.
It's against God's law... And yes, sin is a natural part of life that doesn't grant anyone relief from doing so regardless that man says it's ok...
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If you abhor that fact and feel contraception rewards an immoral act you could just be plain spoken and say it. Like Dobson, you want to paint everything in black & white.
Actually God says it's black and white... Fornication is a sin and when that sin leads to the murder of an unborn child its compounded...
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When you offer accusations instead of solutions, like Dobson's "so-called" Family Reseach Council, you're part of the problem.
50,000,000+ and counting dead unborn children isn't an accusation its a mountain of evidence...
John
And please don't tell me forcing people to marry will stop abortion
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 8:58:32 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Actually God says it's black and white...
You are proclaiming you know God's will for man in stark black & white terms, that you have absolute knowledge of what is offensive to God.
I can sum up your whole post by saying you think of God in black & white.
I cannot even fathom how someone can put absolutes onto the nature of God.
That sad fact probably means we'll never have a rational discussion.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 9:17:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
You are proclaiming you know God's will for man in stark black & white terms, that you have absolute knowledge of what is offensive to God.
I said the bible bible says fornication is a sin... It's that simple... It's that black and white... While I have no idea of God's secretive will, what it plainly written in His word isn't out of the realm of understanding for those who believe in Him... The bible says to remove the fornicating brother who refuses to repent from the church...1 Corinthians 5
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I can sum up your whole post by saying you think of God in black & white.
I sure you will because I know you cannot refute that fornication is a sin outside the secular realm...
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I cannot even fathom how someone can put absolutes onto the nature of God.
I would say that I cannot fathom that someone who argue that fornication isn't a sin on a Christian web forum, but it goes on all the time here...
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That sad fact probably means we'll never have a rational discussion.
I agree, if what God plainly calls a sin is completely ignored we cannot have a rational discussion.
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
If you can squeeze out of the above that it's ok for adults to have sex outside marriage you win...
John
John
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 10:56:24 PM
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CT23
Posts: 56
Joined: 8/16/2006
Status: offline
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I think what Sovereign is saying is that within the framework of Christianity, sex outside of marriage is morally wrong. I don't think anyone is denying that sex outside of marriage is accepted generally in a totally secular mindset.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/25/2008 11:30:29 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1617
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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1000 verses that talk about helping the poor, widows, sick, in jail.
20 verses dealing with murder.
To me is is a sin not to help those poor babies when they get here.
I'm always surprised when I see people still listen to James and his type.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 12:08:14 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
1000 verses that talk about helping the poor, widows, sick, in jail.
20 verses dealing with murder.
To me is is a sin not to help those poor babies when they get here.
I'm always surprised when I see people still listen to James and his type.
I hope you are doing all you can for those babies...
John
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 2:03:28 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
I cannot even fathom how someone can put absolutes onto the nature of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I would say that I cannot fathom that someone who argue that fornication isn't a sin on a Christian web forum, but it goes on all the time here...
quote:
That sad fact probably means we'll never have a rational discussion.
I agree, if what God plainly calls a sin is completely ignored we cannot have a rational discussion.
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
If you can squeeze out of the above that it's ok for adults to have sex outside marriage you win...
John
You bring up a very good point! I started out on this Forum to get a better understanding of the Conservative Christian movement; I never intended to find myself defending secular absolutes versus Biblical absolutes.
My apologies.
It would appear that my secular approach to ending abortions runs smack up against the moral absolutes of your faith.
I now have a better understanding of why what I have learned over the years in a "mainstream" church has made me ill-equipped to understand conservative religious philosophy. But I still remain a TaoPoohBear, an all inclusive belief in the technicolor of the Almighty; Just a wiser bear for the exchange.
Thanx, and again my apologies for misunderstanding your intent.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
That's fine and dandy... Of course one doesn't have to demonizie anyone regarding abortion, they do so on their by their actions... Simply post the number of slaughtered children... Any reasoning from those who support such an action is preposterous when held against that number...
John
Having been down this path with you before (in another thread), I suppose I should reply -
"Contraception should be free & available to everyone over the age of 18"
...you support fornication?
John
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 10:38:30 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15728
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
But then there is still the question as to whether global warming is really the disastrous thing that some scientists and "political" people think. There is enough other scientists out there saying that it is just a myth instead.
As a Colorado resident, I can honestly say that no matter what your position is on GW, the climate here has progressively become drier and warmer. We have immense mountain pine beetle problems because it no longer get's cold enough to kill them. Thousands of acres of older pine trees are now dead as doornails. We also have to contend with diminishing water resources at a time of significant population growth throughout the west and increased water demand.
Whether man made or natural, these phenomena are real and do require some degree of a political response even if that response is just contingency planning. The entrenched positions of both sides in this argument does seem to hinder honest inquiry planning by municipalities.
But the question is what is causing global warming though? Also, a lot of scientists believe that the world is in a natural warming trend anyway. Environmentalists are very biased anyhow and were already looking for reasons against oil and such even before thinking that it causes global warming.
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ORIGINAL: Solus
Here is what I find funny about Dobson. He complains about political correctness because he is not a politician, and then throws himself into politics by criticizing the candidates and then acts as if he is the victim when they defend themselves. He truly is a nut job.
There I disagree with you wholeheartedly.
quote:
Gil Alexander-Moegerle
The site that is posted regarding this author is clearly a feminist site. Of course they are going to have a problem with organizations and people such as James Dobson. Nice try, but the argument is moot.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 10:53:54 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
[quote:
Gil Alexander-Moegerle
The site that is posted regarding this author is clearly a feminist site. Of course they are going to have a problem with organizations and people such as James Dobson. Nice try, but the argument is moot.
It was the best site for quotes from his book.
I can give you a couple of more out of his 1,900 Goggle hits -
peacemakers
amazon.com
whiterock church
book reviews
and on and on and on.............
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 10:57:11 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15728
Status: online
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It seems to me that the author has an axe to grind.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 11:15:06 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
It seems to me that the author has an axe to grind.
I would agree.
But I did learn a few things that seemed to fit with the history of Dobson's political involvement.
I don't question Dobson's right to throw stones at Democrats, just his judgement of standing in a greenhouse while doing it.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/26/2008 3:30:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
You bring up a very good point! I started out on this Forum to get a better understanding of the Conservative Christian movement; I never intended to find myself defending secular absolutes versus Biblical absolutes.
Actually you attempted to play God's will against His own law...
quote:
It would appear that my secular approach to ending abortions runs smack up against the moral absolutes of your faith.
I don't recall you speaking of ending abortion...
quote:
I now have a better understanding of why what I have learned over the years in a "mainstream" church has made me ill-equipped to understand conservative religious philosophy.
If you believe that understanding that fornication is a sin is a conservative religious philosophy it's not religious philosophy that you don't understand...
John
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/27/2008 8:42:59 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I don't think not understanding God's law is pompous self-righteousness... Try another church and good luck...
John
But it really isn't your place to understand God's law as it relates to other people. Your job is to understand God's law as it relates to you and other members of the Church.
The reason that Christianity is so irrelevant today is that nobody really wants to listen to people condemn them, and frankly that's neither the way that Paul instructed us to behave nor the way the Church generally operated until about 30 years ago.
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 7/27/2008 8:52:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3826
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
But it really isn't your place to understand God's law as it relates to other people.
Says who? I am not aware of the call to be ignorant of how God's law relates to other people? I understand that the church doesn't have jurisdiction over those outside the visible church, but I wasn't aware that I should be blind to the how God's law as it relates to other people.
quote:
Your job is to understand God's law as it relates to you and other members of the Church.
Are you saying the person isn't a member of the church?
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The reason that Christianity is so irrelevant today is that nobody really wants to listen to people condemn them, and frankly that's neither the way that Paul instructed us to behave nor the way the Church generally operated until about 30 years ago.
It's not relevant because the church as caved to the world and doesn't look all that different from it...
Btw...Am I bringing to much theology to Current Events? I have been told that before...
John
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 8/3/2008 1:33:32 PM
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shovelhead
Posts: 6
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline
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IT UPSETS ME TO NO END THAT SOME LEADERS SUCH AS DOBSON, ROBERTSON, THE LATE FALWELL, REPRESENT ALL OF CHRISTIANITY ON PUBLIC ISSUES. WHERE IS A HUMBLE LEADER THAT IS LIBERTARIAN ENOUGH TO LET INDIVIDUALS BE THEMSELVES AND NOT HAVE SO MUCH NEED FOR POWER THAT THEY JUST HAVE TO GIVE THEIR OPINION ON EVERYTHING THE MEDIA ASKS THEM?
JUST RECENTLY FIVE CAME OUT SAYING THAT IF McCAIN CHOSE ROMNEY AS VP, THEN HE WOULD LOSE 62 MILLION EVANGELICAL VOTES. WHERE DO THESE GUYS GET OFF SPEAKING FOR ALL EVANGELICALS? ARE THEY THE SECOND COMING?
WHY CAN'T/DON'T EVANGELICALS AND FUNDAMENTALISTS THINK FOR THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF BEING SO WEAK ON TOO MANY ISSUES?
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RE: James Dodson's Role In The Election - 8/3/2008 2:57:04 PM
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