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RE: Mary - 7/25/2008 6:58:33 PM
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Dancre
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This will answer all of your questions: First of all, Joseph GAVE the name to the Child, Jesus, which in the eyes of everyone made the child officially 'his'. quote:
Luke does not mention Joseph's reaction to her pregnancy but Matthew does. In Matthew 1:19 he clearly has in mind a divorce, which was the right and proper thing to be done in these circumstances. The usual way of doing this was by public trial, causing the utmost humiliation and shame to come upon the fornicating woman. It is to Joseph's credit that he chose the second option of a private divorce, which could be undertaken with just two witnesses. The situation would have been extremely embarrassing and hurtful for him, and he could easily have used a public divorce as a way of hitting back at his apparently unfaithful bride. However, that night, the situation was explained to him in a dream by an angel. The angel asks Joseph to do two important things. First he is to take Mary home with him; in other words to complete the marriage. Second, he is to give the child its name. This would formally acknowledge that the child was his son. Not in actual fact because the angel explains that the pregnancy is an act of God, but that Joseph, in the eyes of the world will accept the child as his son. This also legitimises the child as a descendant of King David, even if Mary herself was not a descendant. Joseph did as he was instructed the very next day. We might consider this a very noble and considerate thing to do, but the community, if they found out about the pregnancy, would have narrowed the three probabilities to just one. They would have concluded that the child was in fact Joseph's. The strict provincial backwater community would not have tolerated this. It may be however that knowledge of the pregnancy was delayed or even kept from the community altogether. If this was so, then a lot of things could be explained. Why did Mary go with him? quote:
Coping with the pregnancy. Mary spent the first three months of her pregnancy at her relative, Elizabeth's house. This would have hidden those tell-tale signs of morning sickness etc. It was only after she returned to Nazareth that Mary did the decent thing and told Joseph about the pregnancy. We have already seen that Joseph had already decided to keep the divorce proceedings private so the pregnancy may not have been common knowledge at this time. It may have been possible that wearing the voluminous clothes of the day, the pregnancy may never have come to light. This would have been fine, but the birth of a full term child after just six months of married life would immediately give the game away. When the strict northern provincial community learnt about the supposed unchaste behaviour of Mary and Joseph, they would not have been kind to them. It would have been easier on them if they could legitimately leave Nazareth a little while before the child was born. They might be able to return several months, preferably years later, and the community might never know that the child was conceived three months before the marriage was consummated. If such thoughts ever crossed the minds of Mary and Joseph, we do not know, but circumstances were taken out of their hands. Amazingly an imperial decree was issued through Governor Quirinius which demanded that Joseph return to his home town of Bethlehem for registration. This meant that the child would have been born while he was away. After realising the apparent unchaste behaviour, what might the community have done to Mary and the child while Joseph was away? This could explain why Joseph decide that he must take the heavily pregnant Mary on his journey to Bethlehem. If the community had not yet found out about Mary's early pregnancy, the perfect opportunity had arisen to make sure they never did. This explains why it is that a heavily pregnant Mary made such a difficult journey, and it also explains why Mary and Joseph would not wish to return to Nazareth for a few years. This explains why they were still in Bethehem a couple of years later when the Magi visited them. http://www.btinternet.com/~prgreetham/Wisemen/ana1.html As for Mary herself, she is in my eyes the bravest woman on the planet. She went through a lot to bring the Son of God into the world, stuff we wouldn't even try, even if an angel appeared before us. And I can't even begin to imagine how terrified she must have been, but willing to follow God's will even if it meant her death. kim
< Message edited by Dancre -- 7/25/2008 7:09:58 PM >
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RE: Mary - 7/25/2008 7:27:28 PM
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mvic
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quote:
As for Mary herself, she is in my eyes the bravest woman on the planet. She went through a lot to bring the Son of God into the world, stuff we wouldn't even try, even if an angel appeared before us. And I can't even begin to imagine how terrified she must have been, but willing to follow God's will even if it meant her death. Agreed. Hence my starting post.
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RE: Mary - 7/25/2008 8:38:02 PM
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Dancre
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I can't even begin to imagine what folks would have done to her if they had found out she was pregnant. Who would have believed that God impregnated her? No one. You think folks assume now? Imagine the pharasses (and some pharasses don't wear robes. )coming across a pregnant little girl and not married. Yeah she was betrothed, but folks would have found out real quick it wasn't Joseph she had been 'with'. She wouldn't have survived the end of the day. Joseph could have walked away at any time, but not her. But once again, God comes through, protects her and gets her out of the home town league. It's so very simple to dismiss the whole thing with her pregnancy, to shrug and say, yeah, whatever, b/c we don't know the culture or the community and their laws. But once one does some digging, you can see she was in a LOT of danger as was Joseph. But he loved God just as much as she did and he did everything he could to protect his family. He trusted God just as much as she did. I think folks mostly dismiss Mary b/c of the whole 'virgin mary' stuff and don't see the person behind the statue, which is just plain sad. I'm glad you started this post, I never thought about her and what she went through. It's a real testimoney. But I'm sure she'd just shrug and say, It was God's grace, not me that got me through it. Let me add, this is why it's so very important to study the culture surrounding the bible. It brings EVERYTHING into perspective. Also I don't think Mary hindered her son. Remember the wedding at Cannan? It was Mary who said to the servants, just do as He tells you to do. kim
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RE: Mary - 7/26/2008 7:48:37 PM
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mvic
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Mary may well have been controversial 2000 years ago. After the Baby Jesus was born there certainly were many people who must have scoffed and tittered at the claim of a Virgin Birth; or even at the more outrageous claim that He is God's Son. Some may have believed - like the shepherds for instance. Others felt threatened - Herod. But I wonder ... as Jesus grew up from baby to child to adult ... how many really believed in Him? The story of His birth would have faded as time went by. How many doubted the claims made by Mary at the time, and silently dismissed her claims as the ramblings of a demented young woman? Sadly, we don't have much in the Bible about Jesus from baby to His ministry 30 years later. So we can guess what people thought of Mary and her claims. Fast forward 2000 years. Mary is still controversial today. As this thread has shown, many regard her as a character in Christ's history and no more. Not so long ago a senior cleric in the UK suggested that we should not take the Virgin Birth too literally. Controversial? You bet !!!
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RE: Mary - 7/30/2008 11:36:32 AM
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JesKlu
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 It must have been amazing to be the parent of...God. Yes, but it wasn't easy. Like someone said on here, if the community found out, anything could've happened. But she was really brave to bring the eternal Son of God into the world, even if it did mean death. As Simen the Prophet said to Mary Luke 2:33-35 33And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."(ESV) Soli Deo Gloria! Jessica
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And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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