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ecclesiastes412 -> Extra's (7/21/2008 7:04:25 PM)

I'm a Sgt in the US Army, I make decent money. I have a friend that is a business man and he makes more money than me.
I was recently going through some financial struggles and he has extra money. I was wondering, would be wrong of me to be upset because he was not willing to help me out?
I know to trust God with my finances, but I think that is a reason he is in my life is to help out. I just don't understand how people with extra money can brag about cruises, vacations to islands.
It makes me angry, I feel it is not christian like at all.
Any Opinions?



GroupW -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 7:17:36 PM)

I've been in your friends shoes. I make good money, but I don't have unlimited resources. I need to give to my church, plus I need to have funds available for taking care of other charitable needs as they arise. I can't serve every need.

I've helped out people in the past by providing personal loans. I've yet to be paid back completely by anyone I've loaned money to. My losses in this type of endeavor right now are a few thousand dollars. Obviously, providing financial assistance like that isn't something I can do all that often.

Because I know the rate of repayment isn't great, I'm fairly choosy about when, where and how much financial assistance I'm willing to provide. It needs to be a small enough amount that I can afford to lose it, and it needs to be a relationship that will either survive the conflict (very rare) or a relationship I can afford to walk away from (also very rare.)

If it were a friend of mine, I'd prefer to steer clear of doing any financial assistance for the sake of a friendship. I still engage in "charitable lending" like this, but I'm very careful about it.

My opinion - if you value the friendship, don't ask and try not to be angry over it. Be thankful you earn a decent wage and be happy he's found success as well.

He might actually be in your life just to be a friend. That's worth more than all the rest.



PureOath -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 7:45:46 PM)

My opinion:

I don't think it's right for your friend to brag about what he's got. That would make me feel pretty bad. Especially if I was having a tough time.

However, it's his money. It was given to him to use how he sees fit - and if a cruise or a trip to an island is in there - it is.

When I start to get upset that someone has something I want and don't have - like your rank for instance (I'm a PFC!) Instead of getting mad no one's "helping me out with a promotion" I instead look at myself. What can I handle better about what I do have, and how can I use it to get where I want to be?

Last time I was in a financial bind, none of my friends gave me any money. They may have helped me out from time to time by taking me out to a dinner I could never afford, or getting me a present I would enjoy - but no one bailed me out of anything for sure. And I'm glad for it. I made some gradual changes that resulted in a major change... but I'm doing better as a PFC making less than I did with all my bills and a higher paying job in the Insurance field.

In the Army we actually have a few things in our favor. They give us money for housing. They give us money for food. We don't pay medical or dental expenses. That already puts you in a better spot than many civvies. Some spend a majority of their income on those three things. Your base salary goes where YOU direct it.
What's your budget like?



ta_mosquito -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 8:59:51 PM)

quote:

I was wondering, would be wrong of me to be upset because he was not willing to help me out?

Yes.

quote:

I know to trust God with my finances, but I think that is a reason he is in my life is to help out.

I think you need to be very careful to not slip into an entitlement mentality. Believing that just because someone has more money than you, they're then obligated to help you out financially is, in my opinion, skewed thinking.

quote:

I just don't understand how people with extra money can brag about cruises, vacations to islands.

Is the guy REALLY bragging about cruises, etc., or is he sharing about his life with you and you're overly sensitive?

quote:

It makes me angry, I feel it is not christian like at all.

Which is less Christian-like: not being willing (for whatever reason) to help someone else financially, or being angry at (I assume) a fellow believer because someone won't help you out?

quote:

Any Opinions?

Beware all forms of greed: Luke 12:15
Do not covet your neighbor's possessions: Exodus 20:17; James 4:1-3



Ps103 -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 9:16:17 PM)

quote:

I was wondering, would be wrong of me to be upset because he was not willing to help me out?


What sort of help were you hoping for?

You said you make "decent money." If so, why were you needing him to help you out?

There is an old acorn (that is very true) that says "do not ever lend a friend or family member money. If you can afford to give it to them as a gift, fine, but never give money expecting it to be paid back." Friends and family members are notorious for not paying back, or paying back very slowly, and that destroys the relationship.

Perhaps your friend is more interested in having you remain his friend rather than becoming just another creditor to you[;)]

I do not think it is a good idea to base your ideas about his Christianity on whether or not he lent you money.



APZR -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 10:07:07 PM)

I agree that constant bragging is not nice, and not fun on the receiving end when struggling. I too have been there and got the tee shirt. But, he may not be as financially strong as it appears. Being in business for myself, what may look like extra money in the account to the world, really isn't extra money. I pay myself what I need, but have to keep $$$$$$ in the bank for operating capital too. The money there isn't mine, it's for liabilities coming in, for payroll, for others whom I owe money.

I will also say that I would never lend money to friends or family. That causes way too many problems, and have been burned in the past. I may decide to give you money, had better be a darn good reason, but I will never lend it.



GroupW -> RE: Extra's (7/21/2008 11:32:34 PM)

Forgot to mention in my first post - I think if someone is bragging about how much they have it's going to be hard not to feel some resentment.

I think I can understand that, and I wouldn't want my original post to sound too hard on you if that's the case. Nonetheless, the resentment wouldn't be healthy and it would be something you'd really have to fight to remain in a good emotional spot.

Didn't deal with that part of your post when I responded. Sorry.

BT



creationtalk -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 12:19:03 AM)

quote:

would be wrong of me to be upset because he was not willing to help me out?

Yes.

A few years ago my brother and sil paid more on their house note than I made in a month. They spent more money on entertainment than I did on food. I asked for a loan so that I could build an addition (kitchen/bath) onto a building on my property to make it into a small house. They refused--and bought a vacation home. That was their right. It was money God had given to them and they had no obligation to help me. And from the vantage of hindsight...I am so glad that they refused to help because I would have lost that "home" in Katrina (building was damaged beyond repair), and the house that I built 6 years later came through with no damage.


quote:

I know to trust God with my finances, but I think that is a reason he is in my life is to help out. I just don't understand how people with extra money can brag about cruises, vacations to islands.


I think that this part in bold is wrong thinking. Perhaps this man was put in your life to point out to you that you are placing money ahead of people and relationships...

Are you sure he is bragging? I have several friends that have taken big vacations--these were reported on in emails with multiple pictures. It's not bragging, it's sharing their experiences.


quote:

It makes me angry, I feel it is not christian like at all.


Well, you're right. Getting angry about another's good fortune is not Christian at all. We are to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn.

As far as lending you the money..."the borrower is servant to the lender." (Prv. 22:7b)...perhaps your friend prefers to be your friend rather than your master.



APZR -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 12:24:29 AM)

Hey Group W, I didn't even read your post. It's almost scary/amazing how similar are our post and advice. [&:] We must have grown up under the same switch. Did your Mom use a Mimosa tree switch to get the point across? Mine did, was the closet tree to the deck. [:D]



isaacsmom -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 10:30:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

quote:

I was wondering, would be wrong of me to be upset because he was not willing to help me out?

Yes.

quote:

I know to trust God with my finances, but I think that is a reason he is in my life is to help out.

I think you need to be very careful to not slip into an entitlement mentality. Believing that just because someone has more money than you, they're then obligated to help you out financially is, in my opinion, skewed thinking.

quote:

I just don't understand how people with extra money can brag about cruises, vacations to islands.

Is the guy REALLY bragging about cruises, etc., or is he sharing about his life with you and you're overly sensitive?

quote:

It makes me angry, I feel it is not christian like at all.

Which is less Christian-like: not being willing (for whatever reason) to help someone else financially, or being angry at (I assume) a fellow believer because someone won't help you out?

quote:

Any Opinions?

Beware all forms of greed: Luke 12:15
Do not covet your neighbor's possessions: Exodus 20:17; James 4:1-3


I totally agree.

eta: I notice the title of this thread is "Extras". If you say you make decent money, and the Lord is providing for your basic needs, why do you want for more? Why can you not be content?



seagullplayer -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 11:38:19 AM)

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


(Exo 20:17) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Notice it does not say "unless he brags about it"...

Only you would know, but are you sure it is braging on his part and not resentment on yours?



Auben -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 12:02:55 PM)

Truly we are to provide for one another's needs. We should not let people go hungry, cold, or naked.

Now bailing people out of financial problems or helping them recover from mistakes, the Lord is less clear about and leaves it to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. God does not always send us people to help us catch up on house payments or the electric bill. Sometimes He has other things in mind. I've known many godly people who faced poverty or bounced back from mistakes.

The bottom line is that you need to pray and pull back your anger and/or covetous thinking.

If your friend was really into bragging you probably would have distanced yourself before now. Don't let your situation ruin your friendship.



Ps103 -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 12:09:44 PM)

quote:

I know to trust God with my finances, but I think that is a reason he is in my life is to help out. I


You know--that is a curious statement.

I would think if God put me in someone's life to help them out (in the way you want) He would tell me, not the person.

(And yes, He has told me that before.)



GroupW -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 2:43:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

Hey Group W, I didn't even read your post. It's almost scary/amazing how similar are our post and advice. [&:] We must have grown up under the same switch. Did your Mom use a Mimosa tree switch to get the point across? Mine did, was the closet tree to the deck. [:D]


Nope - a 12 inch ruler. She weighed all of 90 pounds dripping wet, so she couldn't swing it hard enough to do any damage. Mimosa? You must be a southern boy.

It is kind of funny how we overlap so often.



deliveredarling -> RE: Extra's (7/22/2008 6:45:45 PM)

Why would God put someone into your life to help you out if you make good money?

Maybe the lesson here is to manage your good money better?

Your friend has worked hard and diligently to earn his money, as have you, so why the resentment towards him because he may have managed it better.

I really don't mean for this to sound as harsh as it's probably going to:
Maybe you just need to grow up.



saraimay75 -> RE: Extra's (7/23/2008 3:34:54 AM)

Does your friend Tithe? Give his 10%? Then he is giving what all he needs to give.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Extra's (7/23/2008 6:37:23 AM)

Yes, you are wrong to feel entitled to someone else's money. [&:]

Should we help each other out--absolutely, but there may be reasons he isnt. He may not be as rich as you think, he may be exaggerating those extra things in order to look rich, or he himself be in financial trouble. Just because you're making good money doesn't mean you know how to steward it well. There are many people who make double or triple what my dh does, and while we are stable and comfortable in our simple lifestyle iwth the ability to save and give, they are living paycheck to paycheck and seriously stressing over money.

Another possibility is that he believes giving you money wouldn't help you. If he sees that you're managing your money poorly, he may doubt that just dumping a load of money on you will benefit you in the long run.



Sadey -> RE: Extra's (7/24/2008 7:35:15 PM)

Usually money is not the answer for people having financial problems. Unless its a major illness or natural diaster. Why are you having money problems? Instead ask him to teach you how to manage money. That would be longer lasting help.



ecclesiastes412 -> RE: Extra's (7/27/2008 6:51:25 PM)

Thanks for everyone's input. I have been so busy I have not had a chance to read the posts. Thanks



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