Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (Full Version)

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ames01 -> Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 9:59:38 AM)

This is a spinoff from the "Minutes from death . . . " thread that mvic started. In that thread, Little_1 told us about sharing the Gospel with a patient when she worked in a nursing home. That led to the question of possible workplace repercussions for employees who witness to patients. Rather than derail the other thread, I thought we could discuss it here.

I'm mostly thinking of those who work in the healthcare field, but anyone is welcome to respond. Don't feel like you have to answer every single question if you don't want to -- they are just to prompt discussion. [:)]

Have you had experience working with people who are dying, and did you witness to them while on the job?

Did you face any sort of discipline from your employer from doing so?

Does your employer have a policy against sharing your faith while on the job? If so, do you (or would you) abide by the policy?

What are your thoughts on the appropriateness of witnessing while at work?



mvic -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 10:25:55 AM)

Good thread - well done. I'm interested to see what answers it brings in. Specifically, it would help if respondents say which countries they are from.

Here in the UK we are becoming more secular by the day; and witnessing to the dead/dying by staff would no doubt cause problems to the individuals concerned. Don't miss-inderstand me. Most hospitals have resident ministers/priests and chapels. Also religious representatives from other religions aside from Christianity. These people can and do visit patients as requested. But I doubt that staff would be allowed to do so freely. I await others' responses.

Only last year a member of staff in an airline was reprimanded for wearing a chain and crucifix around her neck.



mvic -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 10:29:49 AM)

In a large organisation I know of (in the UK) the un-written (understood) policy is that you don't discuss religion or politics openly at work. However, the organisation has a Christian Club/Prayer Group for those who want to join/attend during the lunch hour.



Mickley -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 2:04:45 PM)

Real good topic. I am in the (USA).

I will put out some questions here because I don't have this one all sorted out. I certainly am not an expert on this, I'm far from perfect, and I don't share my faith enough in word or actions (but want to more).

With that said, oddly enough, it seems some of the non-Christians I know are more open to discussing the topic of faith at work depending on how the discussion is presented to them. For me, I find that if I don't have much of a friendship with someone else at work, then discussing my faith with them can seem lots more risky for me.

In the work places, organizations, or schools I've been in it seems people operate on a variety of opinions when it comes to this topic.

First, there seems to be inconsistencies between Christians themselves about what it means to witness, discuss one's faith, or share Jesus with others.

Second,
At times, it seems tough to nail down what any group of people believe in this area.

- Some Christians seem to suggest one should stay away from discussing their faith at work. Some Christians seem to think discussion of faith is not needed at work.
- Other Christians seem to suggest a discussion of faith at work would be a matter of being themselves and being consistent and honest with one's own identity in each area of one's life and as a result they do share their faith at work.
- Some Christians seem to suggest what one does should be whatever works to accomplish the God-given goals in a given situation.
- Some Christians seem to suggest that one needs a special hot link to God (that maybe few have) to know exactly when the time is right to share Jesus and when it is not.
- Some Christians seem to suggest we need to stop other Christians or certain Christians from sharing about Jesus because they are hurting the efforts of everyone else who is trying to share Jesus.
- I think there are other opinions about this topic that people operate on in this country also.
Some Christians seem to suggest mainly just loving others is the answer to handling this topic.

What persons in the USA decide as policy in government and various different or independent bodies can be another topic itself with another set of opinions.

So, what the Bible says about the above may or may not match up with the opinions out there. I know God's perspective is much more important than the perspectives each of us have. So I'd like to map onto more of that perspective.



delete123 -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 5:36:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ames01

This is a spinoff from the "Minutes from death . . . " thread that mvic started. In that thread, Little_1 told us about sharing the Gospel with a patient when she worked in a nursing home. That led to the question of possible workplace repercussions for employees who witness to patients. Rather than derail the other thread, I thought we could discuss it here.

I'm mostly thinking of those who work in the healthcare field, but anyone is welcome to respond. Don't feel like you have to answer every single question if you don't want to -- they are just to prompt discussion. [:)]

Have you had experience working with people who are dying, and did you witness to them while on the job?
I worked in a specific care hospital, where most patients had cancer. They also had a drug and alcohol rehabilitation and a small psychiatric ward. I ministered to a lot of folks and believe it or not a lot of them ministered to me. Cancer patients especially are really spiritual people, some are truly amazing
Did you face any sort of discipline from your employer from doing so? No, this particular hospital was a very small, but family orientated place. I was soo upset when they partnered with a healthcare organization that made it more of a business. The closed this hospital for financial gain, so they thought. (long story there.)

Does your employer have a policy against sharing your faith while on the job? If so, do you (or would you) abide by the policy? When I left that hospital and decided to get back in to medical, the new place had very strict policies concerning/ sharing one's faith. Since I am will share, they had me make photocopies of the policy for the new handbooks [:'(] So I quit the job.

What are your thoughts on the appropriateness of witnessing while at work? I bleieve if God gives us an opportunity to share Him, then we should. I use my son alot, as him just being is a miracle in itself and always share that story and how with God all things are possible.



CRH



ames01 -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 7:42:50 PM)

I'll go ahead and answer my own questions.

quote:

Have you had experience working with people who are dying, and did you witness to them while on the job?


I work in a hospital, but the nature of my work is such that I don't really see patients when their death is imminent. I also only work with them one time in most cases, so while there is enough time to build rapport, there isn't really enough time to build a relationship with them. I do try to kind of feel people out to see if they would be receptive to talking about Jesus, and I offer to pray for people frequently. I can't honestly say that I have sat down and shared the Gospel in a straightforward manner with a patient while at work. I usually hint and tiptoe around it, and hope they will bring it up so I can talk about it. I have struggled a lot with my feelings of fear about witnessing to patients, and then the guilt I feel about being fearful.

quote:

Did you face any sort of discipline from your employer from doing so?


Not really applicable in my case.

quote:

Does your employer have a policy against sharing your faith while on the job? If so, do you (or would you) abide by the policy?


To my knowledge, we don't have a formal policy against it. However, I suspect it would be frowned upon by management (though I don't think they would take disciplinary action unless a patient complained). I would like to be able to say that I wouldn't abide by the policy if I felt the Spirit leading me to witness to a patient, but as I mentioned above, I struggle with it.

quote:

What are your thoughts on the appropriateness of witnessing while at work?


I think it's appropriate when it's Spirit-led. My pastor is always reminding us that we are Christians first, and our work roles are secondary.



gentlefriend -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 8:11:57 PM)

I don't work in the health care field but have had some minor persecution for my faith. 1st being my picture of Jesus at my desk I was told was offensive, yet who cares about the naked or vulgar pictures at other peoples desks Then we had a person who was wearing a very demonic t shirt to work that was extremely offensive to me and other Christian Co/workers. When I complained about it I was told it was fine and I was being intolerant. I decided to wear a Christian T shirt but was told that where I am in managment I am a leader and could influence others with my beliefs??????

Another time I asked my boss if we could use the board room to pray over an employee who had cancer. He was not to thrilled by the request, but we were all on our own time(break) and he did allow it.

I like what your Pastor said about we working for God above all, it is difficult and alot of times I do fail, but when I do take a stand, God does bless us. The lady with cancer was healed and did not need chemo. And the demonic t shirt was worn on a day when one of the Board members showed up (who was not a fan of my boss) and even though he is not a Christian he flipped about the t shirt and then there was a bann on all t shirts.



NotDoneYet -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/21/2008 9:56:43 PM)

I don't believe that the workplace is a place to be "witnessing". You are getting paid to work, not talk in the first place. Personal conversations should be held for times you're off the clock. In my line of work, we are charging the government for our time...that time should be productive, not spent talking.
There is a bible study group that meets at lunchtime, and maybe one after work, but nothing "on the clock".
I know who is and isn't a professing christian...and actions speak MUCH louder than words.



ames01 -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/22/2008 8:59:32 AM)

I think my choice of thread title might be a little confusing, so I just wanted to clarify.

My phrase "lost and dying" was referring to people who are not saved and are known to be in the process of dying -- days, hours, or even minutes from the physical death of their body. And my questions in the OP are about people who, as part of their job, come in contact with these dying people as clients or patients. What I would be most interested in discussing is the internal conflict between following God's leading to witness to the dying person and facing possible workplace repercussions, versus keeping your mouth shut to save your job and not following God's leading. It's one of those things that sounds like a clear and easy decision, until you are in the heat of the moment.

This wasn't really meant to be a thread just about witnessing at work in general, though that would be an interesting topic for another thread. I can see how my title and my last question might have led to that confusion -- sorry! My fault for not being very clear in the first place. [:)]



Mickley -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/23/2008 2:30:31 PM)

As best as I can remember I will tell a short story. I know a person who helped a gal pray to accept Jesus into her life while she was passing in and out of consciousness on her death bed. He was a pastor; she had cancer. One time as she was dying when she came to, she told the pastor that it was all real and that she wanted to know what to do. She accepted Jesus as she was dying and communicated to the pastor that she sensed Christ's peace. I trust this pastor, he one of my pastors for a few years, I never knew him to be dishonest, and I completely believe this story that he told me. I also know of the lady with the cancer who he referred to. There was a Christian woman who spent much time with the lady with cancer the year before she died. So one shared Christ through a relationship and the other shared Christ through words. One did all the work. The other did the little which needed to be done to bring the person to a decision.

I am certainly not an expert about what the Bible says on this issue! Please be aware there may be errors in my content below. Please make the distinction between my opinions and what the Bible says. I will try to make some connections from the Bible to this topic. I seek not to argue this topic but to discuss it and share some of my current views about it. It is very true that one's actions speak louder than one's words. And, I know I need to look at what the Bible says and try to understand it.



First I don't know of a specific case in the Bible where we have an instance of someone sharing their faith in Jesus with someone else who is dying. That doesn't mean such a case might not exhist in the Bible. All I'm saying is that I don't know of such a case.



Second, I don't know of a place in the Bible where we have any example of someone sharing their faith in words at work (unless someone else at the place of employment brought the topic up first.) There may be a place in the Bible which refers to such a case, but I am not curently aware of it if it exhists.



Third, It does appear to me that Daniel, Joseph, Nehemiah, and perhaps others discussed faith issues at work when someone else at work started the discussion on the topic. Certainly these Bible characters were talking with persons who were not on their death bed. There may be more such examples in the Bible, but I don't know for sure.



Fourth, not everyone is gifted to share their faith in the same way. How far you get with words is up to God, not anyone else, including self.



Fifth, from Phil 1 (New Living Translation):
15) It’s true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry. But others preach about Christ with pure motives. 16) They preach because they love me, for they know I have been appointed to defend the Good News. 17) Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me. 18) But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice. 19) For I know that as you pray for me and the Spirit of Jesus Christ helps me, this will lead to my deliverance.

My Attempt to Apply the above:
So, lets say we have a person who preaches about Jesus a little at work to those who are dying. So, according to this passage, a person's motives for doing this at work may at worst be selfish, not sincere, or an intent to make it more difficult for other Christian(s). Oddly enough Paul doesn't prohibit sharing one's faith to the dying at work in this passage.



Sixth, Acts 4:19-21:
19But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. 20For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."
21After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened.


The following is only my current opinion regarding this topic:
I would pray about this and ask the advice of other Christians who you trust who are spiritually qualified to talk on this (check their "spiritual fruit"). I think that one's work can be a witness to the others one works with. I think one has freedom to witness to those who are dying at work. I think that there can be real consequences on this earth (such as a job loss or other consequences) for sharing one's faith in Jesus with anyone and potentially more so at work. So if you think you might be able to help someone to come to know Jesus and if you are open to paying the consequences, then I don't know of any part of the Bible that prohibits sharing your faith in Jesus at work to the dying. I do admit, there might be locations in the Bible that speak on this topic that I am unaware of. The price of paying the earthly consequences is worth the reward in heaven if You are doing what God wants You to. If you believe that God wants you to share him with other(s) who are dying, I think God can come in and pick up the pieces if you are wrong.



hjemerson -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/23/2008 3:17:23 PM)

I have worke in several places , One that deal with public as in cashier we were not allow to wear Christain theme shirt But then on the other hand the other types were not allow so it was a equally based, wear jeweral and i wore a small cross no problem. As for working and talking God I have alway been under the standing we show Christ in our action/talk/walk with Him people can tell a Christian by their life. I have worked were you could not talk it ,so if some one wanted my opion or how I would handle it we would have a lunch out of the office or afterwork. When you talk reglion.gov. in the work place you some times made a fool of your self(Or It looks like it to other ) I have worked in a social setting where if a woman wanted to stop a pgt I was to support her in that . I had to deal with it as I would have the effect that she ask me what i would do. then this would open me up to tell her my side of the story.
I do belive if you work in a place that for bids you to talk reglion .Frist you need to pray about it, but then you must follow the policy , (what is that telling nonchristian ). If you feel you have to talk to co worker then it could be out side the work place. Action speak lounder than words, Even as a teacher we have to respect the rules but then our actions will support what we have in our lives that set us apart. I have even had a few Christian Bosses that we talked only after work on what was going on in our lifes and ,On the other hand s I have been assign jobs(familys) to work with because of my Faith and my boss knew it would help me thru the case , (that was actions over words)



rcjames -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/23/2008 3:30:30 PM)

A few years past I worked at a place for a few months that had a no religion policy; could not display anything nor say anything that promoted or referrenced any religion what so ever.

I was a manager over about 80 young ladies that worked as customer service representitives for a cellular phone company,

I kept my word not to display nor speak to any faith, but in the time I was there I had over 20 of the young ladies come and ask if they could talk to me after work. I of course offerd council and many were saved or guided out of a pathway of sin, steered away from abortion, etc.

I just lived the Faith I so strongly believe in, with kindness, hard work, never raising my voice, never cursing, etc. etc. etc. The employees just knew that there was something different there and they responded.

If we live our lives as instructed in Scripture folks will know where we come from and what we believe in.

Thanks
RC



hjemerson -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/23/2008 3:48:21 PM)

AMEM!!!
RC
Itwill show!! to much talk in this world for some .seening is beliving!!!



earthless -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/23/2008 7:22:30 PM)

So we're going to witness to the lost and then die at work! That's no good. [:@]



ames01 -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/24/2008 9:17:55 AM)

quote:

So we're going to witness to the lost and then die at work! That's no good.


At least hope it's at the beginning of the day, so you don't have to work a full day and then die, right? [:D]



hjemerson -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/24/2008 2:26:05 PM)

?? do not understand the die at work thing??? I really do not care when/were/ or how I die ! Cause I know where I be in a winke of the eye!!



ames01 -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/24/2008 7:15:01 PM)

quote:

?? do not understand the die at work thing??? I really do not care when/were/ or how I die ! Cause I know where I be in a winke of the eye!!


That part was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek response to earthless's comment, which I assumed was also tongue-in-cheek. [;)] Post #9 gives clarification on my actual question in starting this thread, which wasn't very clear in my OP.



SinnerSaved -> RE: Witnessing to the lost and dying at your place of employment (7/25/2008 12:17:14 PM)

For the last 6/7 years, have I done voluntary work on Saturday afternoons in a Hospice working directly with the patients - feeding them, helping them move from A to B and sometimes just talking with them. All patients (there are a total of 21 beds) are dying, and know it, as do all of their families/visitors. During my time there, most have now gone to eternity.

Part of the induction training is that nursing staff and volunteers are not to speak about any matters of religion unless the patient brings it up first. I respect those terms of service.

Everyone I have had the privilige to help over the last 6/7 years have faced death differently. Some are angry, some are calm, some are fearful, some are thankful. I am not there to evengelise, but I am there to help, to care, and to show Christ's love in action. Some have asked me about Him, and I have had the privelige of sharing. However, I feel that it would be intrusive to witness to them without being invited to do so. They are a captive audience, and I simply do not feel that it is right, let alone the terms of service that I undertook to respect. There are ministers available to all of them, and a small chapel for them to visit for quiet time should they want it.

I know that there will be some on these boards who disagree with me and will say 'You mustn't let them die without Jesus'. To them I say that I trust Jesus not to let them die without knowing Him. Those that are His, He will see. I have known more than one to have been saved whilst asleep.



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