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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 4:31:59 PM
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Bettawrekonize
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Aristocrat
Betta, peer review is how a scientist communicates with other scientists regarding new insights. But, your peers are not going to give you any notice at all if you are trying to prove that Evolution is wrong.
Perhaps it's because they know that evolution is wrong and they want to keep ignoring the issue. If evolution can't take criticism, then I can't take evolution seriously. Evolution is wrong and just because a select few don't want to allow any criticisms into their (tax funded) forums doesn't mean that we should wait for their blessings to post here. Like I said, if our criticisms are valid, then I think others will take us seriously.
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Same goes for the Theory of Gravity, and the Theory of Relativity.
If someone wanted to criticize the theory of gravity or the Theory of Relativity, no one should dispute their criticisms solely on the basis that their criticisms disagree with previous beliefs. The same is true for evolution. Just because someone submits something that may disprove evolution (or make materialism harder to believe) is no reason to ignore them.
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If you deny the obvious, your assertions are going to be out in left field where science doesn't go on one person's say so.
It's not our faults that evolutionists must resort to empty proclamations like, "evolution is obvious" in order to promote their unsupported views just because evolution can't defend itself. But that's no reason to demand that we get the blessings of the secular community or certain peer review journals just to post here.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 7/26/2008 4:52:38 PM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 5:06:41 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: Aristocrat
Betta, peer review is how a scientist communicates with other scientists regarding new insights. But, your peers are not going to give you any notice at all if you are trying to prove that Evolution is wrong.
Perhaps it's because they know that evolution is wrong and they want to keep ignoring the issue.
Whats funny is you seem to actually believe this.
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If evolution can't take criticism, then I can't take evolution seriously. Evolution is wrong and just because a select few don't want to allow any criticisms into their (tax funded) forums doesn't mean that we should wait for their blessings to post here. Like I said, if our criticisms are valid, then I think others will take us seriously.
Evolution is probably the most criticized theory out there today.. Simply because creationist criticisms can't seem to do the damage they want them to do doesnt mean the theory isnt or can't criticized. Creationists just do a poor job of it, and frankly, I think the 'establishment' is a little tired of debunking the same wannabe disengenous criticisms that they have been for decades. Enough is enough. Creationism is in a permanent state of denial, refusing to acknowledge that the creation 'theory' has been ripped to shreds... the unwillingness to comprehend it is pathological at this point.
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If someone wanted to criticize the theory of gravity or the Theory of Relativity, no one should dispute their criticisms solely on the basis that their criticisms disagree with previous beliefs.
If you tried to discredit gravity or relativity based soley on religious presuppositions you would receive the same treatment as a creationist attacking evolution.
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It's not our faults that evolutionists must resort to empty proclamations like, "evolution is obvious" in order to promote their unsupported views just because evolution can't defend itself. But that's no reason to demand that we get the blessings of the secular community or certain peer review journals just to post here.
It is your fault you cannot approach the data with a rational mind because the doctrine of your religion tells you risk hell for disbelieving in creationism.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 5:52:47 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
Evolution is probably the most criticized theory out there today.. Simply because creationist criticisms can't seem to do the damage they want them to do doesnt mean the theory isnt or can't criticized. Creationists just do a poor job of it, and frankly, I think the 'establishment' is a little tired of debunking the same wannabe disengenous criticisms that they have been for decades. Enough is enough. Creationism is in a permanent state of denial, refusing to acknowledge that the creation 'theory' has been ripped to shreds... the unwillingness to comprehend it is pathological at this point.
If evolution could withstand criticism, then there would be no need for people like Aristocrat (or yourself) to demand that no one criticize it without the blessings of a select few. The reason why Aristocrat makes such silly demands is because he knows that evolution can't withstand criticism so he doesn't want it criticized.
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I think the 'establishment' is a little tired of debunking the same wannabe disengenous criticisms that they have been for decades. Enough is enough.
No one is forcing you, or the establishment, to come here and attempt to debunk us. You are free to and so is anyone else. However, suggesting that we should not criticize evolution further demonstrates the fact that evolution can't withstand criticisms. If it could, then you should have no problems with us criticizing it and you, and aristocrat should certainly not demand that we stop criticizing evolution. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to attempt to debunk us and no one is forcing you to stay. You can go onto another forum, like those funded with our tax dollars, where evolution is held without criticism since it cannot afford to allow criticism.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 7/26/2008 5:58:56 PM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 5:58:26 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3948
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
Evolution is probably the most criticized theory out there today.. Simply because creationist criticisms can't seem to do the damage they want them to do doesnt mean the theory isnt or can't criticized. Creationists just do a poor job of it, and frankly, I think the 'establishment' is a little tired of debunking the same wannabe disengenous criticisms that they have been for decades. Enough is enough. Creationism is in a permanent state of denial, refusing to acknowledge that the creation 'theory' has been ripped to shreds... the unwillingness to comprehend it is pathological at this point.
If evolution could withstand criticism, then there would be no need for people like Aristocrat (or yourself) to demand that no one criticize it without the blessings of a select few. The reason why Aristocrat makes such silly demands is because he knows that evolution can't withstand criticism so he doesn't want it criticized.
And what does any of this banter have to do with the OP?
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 5:59:54 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
And what does any of this banter have to do with the OP?
Not much, I was just responding to demands by aristocrat (and possibly others) that we should not criticize evolution.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 6:04:00 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1064
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
If someone wanted to criticize the theory of gravity or the Theory of Relativity, no one should dispute their criticisms solely on the basis that their criticisms disagree with previous beliefs.
Certainly that's true, but the proper way to make a case is to put it in front of the eyes of scientists, by publishing a serious criticism in a scientific journal, where it can receive serious attention. But instead, the antirelativists 'publish' on websites. The reason for this is that their arguments are not solid enough to be worthy of serious publication. The analogy with antievolutionism should be clear.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/26/2008 6:18:41 PM
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Bettawrekonize
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
Certainly that's true, but the proper way to make a case is to put it in front of the eyes of scientists, by publishing a serious criticism in a scientific journal, where it can receive serious attention. But instead, the antirelativists 'publish' on websites. The reason for this is that their arguments are not solid enough to be worthy of serious publication. The analogy with antievolutionism should be clear.
If they post their viewpoints on websites and they are correct (or at least logical), then I think that being correct (or at least logical) would increase the probability of them being taken seriously by others. Otherwise, if they are wrong or illogical, I think that fewer people would take them seriously. That's the whole idea behind open inquiry. Just because something doesn't get published by a select few does not invalidate it and it does not make it any less credible. If the antirelativists are wrong, they are wrong for reasons other than the alleged fact that certain "scientific" journals won't publish them. However, we certainly should not request that they not post their viewpoints whatsoever. You, Aristocrat, and drj11 should be happy to have them post their viewpoints on websites, for by doing so they are exercising freedom of speech and open inquiry (even if they are wrong). You are also free to post websites disputing them and, if you are right and they are wrong, this would only help educate people about why relativity stands up to scrutiny and different opposing views. Suggesting that they should not post their views suggests to me that you know they are right but you don't want others to know for some reason. Of course, in the case of relativity, the ideological incentive (for materialists) to demand silence on those who disagree with it is less than in the case of evolution and other naturalistic philosophies.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 12:42:24 AM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
Certainly that's true, but the proper way to make a case is to put it in front of the eyes of scientists, by publishing a serious criticism in a scientific journal, where it can receive serious attention. But instead, the antirelativists 'publish' on websites. The reason for this is that their arguments are not solid enough to be worthy of serious publication. The analogy with antievolutionism should be clear.
If they post their viewpoints on websites and they are correct (or at least logical), then I think that being correct (or at least logical) would increase the probability of them being taken seriously by others. Otherwise, if they are wrong or illogical, I think that fewer people would take them seriously. That's the whole idea behind open inquiry. Just because something doesn't get published by a select few does not invalidate it and it does not make it any less credible. If the antirelativists are wrong, they are wrong for reasons other than the alleged fact that certain "scientific" journals won't publish them. However, we certainly should not request that they not post their viewpoints whatsoever. You, Aristocrat, and drj11 should be happy to have them post their viewpoints on websites, for by doing so they are exercising freedom of speech and open inquiry (even if they are wrong). You are also free to post websites disputing them and, if you are right and they are wrong, this would only help educate people about why relativity stands up to scrutiny and different opposing views. Suggesting that they should not post their views suggests to me that you know they are right but you don't want others to know for some reason. Of course, in the case of relativity, the ideological incentive (for materialists) to demand silence on those who disagree with it is less than in the case of evolution and other naturalistic philosophies.
You can make all the websites you want, no one cares. But the creationist movement's goal is not to publish websites, its to turn science (and especially the science classroom) into a Christianity affirming enterprise. Your whole 'present the best non-strawman arguments' argument is a massive strawman.
The truth of the matter is that you, and so many others have bought into the ridiculous notion that evolution is of the devil. For creationists, creationism isnt about learning, so much as it is a solution to the social problems or moral problems of the world. Teach kids about creationism, and hey... no more teen drug use, pregnancy or immorality! No more gangs, etc etc.
So lets stop pretending this is actually about science at all. It's about evangelizing. Most creationists do not ever want to admit this out loud, because then they realize why its right for people to oppose them (at least if they have any respect for freedom of religion at all).
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 10:09:53 AM
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Veritas
Posts: 498
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
And what does any of this banter have to do with the OP?
Not much, I was just responding to demands by aristocrat (and possibly others) that we should not criticize evolution.
Aristocrat demanded no such thing. And no one else did either. Why do you say things that are not true?
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 10:12:46 AM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
You can make all the websites you want, no one cares. But the creationist movement's goal is not to publish websites, its to turn science (and especially the science classroom) into a Christianity affirming enterprise. Your whole 'present the best non-strawman arguments' argument is a massive strawman.
Who are you to tell me, or us, what my/our goal is? My goal is to promote academic freedom and open inquiry, something that science promotes. Suppressing academic freedom and open inquiry while funding only one side of the issue in tax funded forums is not scientific, it's dishonest.
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The truth of the matter is that you, and so many others have bought into the ridiculous notion that evolution is of the devil.
There are many Christians that believe evolution to be true. It's not that I think evolution is bad per se, it's that I think academic freedom and open inquiry are good and scientific and that funding one side of the issue (that which is consistent with naturalism) and only that side with tax dollars is dishonest (which it is). After all, how many atheists believe evolution to be false?
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For creationists, creationism isnt about learning, so much as it is a solution to the social problems or moral problems of the world. Teach kids about creationism, and hey... no more teen drug use, pregnancy or immorality! No more gangs, etc etc.
For me, it's about academic freedom and open inquiry.
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So lets stop pretending this is actually about science at all. It's about evangelizing. Most creationists do not ever want to admit this out loud, because then they realize why its right for people to oppose them (at least if they have any respect for freedom of religion at all).
Are you clairvoyant now? Do you have psychic powers? Where abouts did you acquire your omniscience to know all this? Or were you always omniscient?
I think that creationists are in a better position to tell others their positions (or "what it's about") than you are. A non - creationist is certainly in no position to tell creationists and others the position of creationists. I might as well just say, for materialists and evolutionists, it's not about science at all. It's about funding the doctrine of materialism with tax dollars (evangelizing materialism). After all, science endorses academic freedom and open inquiry and it is creationists that are in favor of academic freedom and open inquiry in tax funded schools while it is the materialists and evolutionists that are mostly opposed. You are the one taking an unscientific position.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 7/27/2008 10:32:03 AM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 10:18:19 AM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
Aristocrat demanded no such thing. And no one else did either. Why do you say things that are not true?
Yes he did
quote:
ORIGINAL: Aristocrat
And no one is challenging that freedom. Criticize away. But keep it to yourself until you find some evidence to formally challenge the scienific community. Is that asking so much?
Why do you say things that are not true?
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 11:23:41 AM
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Veritas
Posts: 498
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
Aristocrat demanded no such thing. And no one else did either. Why do you say things that are not true?
Yes he did
quote:
ORIGINAL: Aristocrat
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I don't personally care what you think 'creationists' should or shouldn't be doing; all I know is that I am free to criticize evolution scientifically and otherwise as necessary, because that is what freedom is. And no one is challenging that freedom. Criticize away. But keep it to yourself until you find some evidence to formally challenge the scienific community. Is that asking so much?
Why do you say things that are not true?
Did you even read the text you quoted? All he asked is that you find some evidence before you formally challenge the scientific community. He even says "no one is challenging that freedom" to critisize evolution. Try reading what he said again more carefully.
It is not true that Aristocrat (or any one else for that matter) demanded you not critisize evolution.
So, I'll ask again. Why do you say things that are obviously false?
ETA: What have I said that you think is not true?
< Message edited by Veritas -- 7/27/2008 1:11:15 PM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 11:34:17 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1064
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
You, Aristocrat, and drj11 should be happy to have them post their viewpoints on websites, for by doing so they are exercising freedom of speech and open inquiry
That's fine with me.
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Suggesting that they should not post their views suggests to me that you know they are right but you don't want others to know for some reason.
I have not suggested that they should not post their views. I have only said that a website does not constitute a criticism that working scientists need to pay any attention to. These websites are not controversy. Even if it were valuable to 'teach the controversy' (and I don't believe it is), there is no controversy here to teach.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 12:08:59 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1064
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
There are many Christians that believe evolution to be true. It's not that I think evolution is bad per se, it's that I think academic freedom and open inquiry are good and scientific and that funding one side of the issue (that which is consistent with naturalism) and only that side with tax dollars is dishonest (which it is). After all, how many atheists believe evolution to be false?
How many atheists believe the Pythagorean Theorem or atomic theory to be false? Does this make mathematics and chemistry some kind of one-sided stolen-tax-dollar-supported naturalistic indoctrination? There is no genuine scientific controversy about any of these matters; the reason that some Christians reject evolution is generally quite easy to determine - it comes straight from their mouths over and over again on these forums. The vast majority make faith-based objections. Scientists (Christian, Zoroastrian, and atheist alike) have come to a general consensus that evolutionary theory is our best theory; this is the only relevant requirement for being taught in school as science.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 4:40:44 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
Did you even read the text you quoted?
Yes I did. He asked us to keep criticisms to ourselves. Then again, many evolutionists contradict themselves and speak incoherently, so it's difficult to really know what they mean when they say something. It's not that evolutionists are incoherent, it's that evolution is incoherent and inconsistent with the evidence so evolutionists have no choice but to resort to non sequitur arguments to promote their position.
quote:
So, I'll ask again. Why do you say things that are obviously false?
It's not false.
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ETA: What have I said that you think is not true?
Already explained.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 7/27/2008 5:22:38 PM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 4:41:44 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
How many atheists believe the Pythagorean Theorem or atomic theory to be false?
The difference is that many/most Christians also accept atomic theory as well. In the case of evolution, only a very high percentage of atheists/materialists/naturalists believe in it. Christians vary much more on the subject suggesting that Christians are far more open minded on the subject and it is Christians that are more interested in science (since science welcomes an open mind).
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the reason that some Christians reject evolution is generally quite easy to determine... The vast majority make faith-based objections.
My objections are on the grounds that I believe the evidence does not support evolution. That belief is independent (or at least almost independent) of my Christian beliefs. Even if I weren't a Christian, I still wouldn't believe evolution to be true because the evidence doesn't seem to support UCD. If the evidence did, I would have no problems being a Christian and accepting the fact that there is evidence that is difficult for me to explain within the assumption of Biblical Creation (though my interpretation of the evidence could be false). I've been debating evolution on message boards for years now, I've read many many arguments carefully and no one has been able to bring forth any compelling arguments for evolution. If anything, the evidence was designed to resist naturalistic explanation (ie: UCD). You are certainly in no position to tell us why we reject evolution and that it has anything to do with our Christian beliefs. Yes, that maybe true for some Christians, but that doesn't make it true for all Christians. There are some non Christians, non Muslims, etc... who also reject evolution (or at least materialistic evolution). Perhaps many people become Christians or turn to religions like Islam because they see the evidence for evolution (and other naturalistic philosophies) as insufficient and they think that Christianity is a much better explanation (ie: I believe this is the case with Mike Behe. He used to be an evolutionist but, based on the evidence, now he rejects materialistic evolution). Again, you are in no position to tell us that they reject evolution because of their religious beliefs, especially when others tell us that their rejection is not based solely on their religious beliefs.
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Even if it were valuable to 'teach the controversy' (and I don't believe it is), there is no controversy here to teach.
It seems that empty statements like this are the most that evolutionists can come up with to promote their views that their viewpoints and no others should be funded with tax dollars. Without tax dollars, evolution would fall apart completely and many evolutionists know it.
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I have only said that a website does not constitute a criticism that working scientists need to pay any attention to.
If our criticisms are valid or if those websites have valid criticisms, then I think that would greatly increase the probability that others would pay attention to them regardless of whether or not they are accepted by a select few (ie: those in charge of what "passes peer review" among the secular community).
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 7/27/2008 5:13:52 PM >
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:20:12 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
The difference is that many/most Christians also accept atomic theory as well. In the case of evolution, only a very high percentage of atheists/materialists/naturalists believe in it. Christians vary much more on the subject suggesting that Christians are far more open minded on the subject and it is Christians that are more interested in science (since science welcomes an open mind).
Most Christians in this day and age (in the US at least) don't believe its right to beat ones wife. However, the Muslim population varies greatly on this subject. Many feel it is proper to use an 'appropriate amount' of physical violence towards one's wife if she is insubordinate. This suggests Muslims are much more open minded on the subject and it is Muslims that are more interested in the truth.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:32:32 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
So, I'll ask again. Why do you say things that are obviously false?
Just because you disagree with something does not make it false.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:35:18 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
Most Christians in this day and age (in the US at least) don't believe its right to beat ones wife. However, the Muslim population varies greatly on this subject. Many feel it is proper to use an 'appropriate amount' of physical violence towards one's wife if she is insubordinate. This suggests Muslims are much more open minded on the subject and it is Muslims that are more interested in the truth.
Whether or not domestic abuse is ethical is not a question of science. Of course, if atheism is true, then there is no universal basis for morality and hence there is no universal basis to determine that such abuse is inappropriate.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:37:00 PM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
Who are you to tell me, or us, what my/our goal is? My goal is to promote academic freedom and open inquiry, something that science promotes. Suppressing academic freedom and open inquiry while funding only one side of the issue in tax funded forums is not scientific, it's dishonest.
No one in academia wants to teach creationism. People have to want to teach it before it gets 'oppressed'.
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There are many Christians that believe evolution to be true. It's not that I think evolution is bad per se, it's that I think academic freedom and open inquiry are good and scientific and that funding one side of the issue (that which is consistent with naturalism) and only that side with tax dollars is dishonest (which it is). After all, how many atheists believe evolution to be false?
This is irrelevant. Do you judge all scientific theories by the number of atheists that believe it? So this is about combating atheism? The more you go down that train of thought the more you prove my point. This isnt about science, its a holy war for the creationists.
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For me, it's about academic freedom and open inquiry.
That's not what it looks like to me.
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Are you clairvoyant now? Do you have psychic powers? Where abouts did you acquire your omniscience to know all this? Or were you always omniscient?
I think that creationists are in a better position to tell others their positions (or "what it's about") than you are.
Well, many creationists do openly make these kinds of statements when talking to a 'friendly' audience. Then when its time to try and push the ideas in a secular place, its all smoke and mirrors and suddenly about 'academic freedom'.
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A non - creationist is certainly in no position to tell creationists and others the position of creationists.
Well, perhaps when you claim that "evolutionists know evolution is wrong and teach it anyways, because they just can't stand to let go of materialism" you get your 'clairvoyance' from the same place i do... except the message gets muddled over there on your end.
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I might as well just say, for materialists and evolutionists, it's not about science at all. It's about funding the doctrine of materialism with tax dollars (evangelizing materialism). After all, science endorses academic freedom and open inquiry and it is creationists that are in favor of academic freedom and open inquiry in tax funded schools while it is the materialists and evolutionists that are mostly opposed. You are the one taking an unscientific position.
Sorry, we had a good 1700+ years or so for non-naturalist science. It's quite obvious what the better methodology is here. Or can you point to anything worthwhile at all that non-naturalist philosophy contributed to science?
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:38:08 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
Most Christians in this day and age (in the US at least) don't believe its right to beat ones wife. However, the Muslim population varies greatly on this subject. Many feel it is proper to use an 'appropriate amount' of physical violence towards one's wife if she is insubordinate. This suggests Muslims are much more open minded on the subject and it is Muslims that are more interested in the truth.
Whether or not domestic abuse is ethical is not a question of science. Of course, if atheism is true, then there is no universal basis for morality and hence there is no universal basis to determine that such abuse is inappropriate.
And the whole point wooshed right over your head. Simply saying some christians don't believe in evolution doesnt make them more open minded. In fact, it makes most quite the opposite. The post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of illustrating that point.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 5:51:24 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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The argument that I'm refuting is this
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
How many atheists believe the Pythagorean Theorem or atomic theory to be false?
Most of group A believe that a is true.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
The difference is that many/most Christians also accept atomic theory as well.
Most of group B believe that a is true.
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There are many Christians that believe evolution to be true.
Some people in group B believe that B is false.
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After all, how many atheists believe evolution to be false?
Most people in group A believe that B is true.
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Does this make mathematics and chemistry some kind of one-sided stolen-tax-dollar-supported naturalistic indoctrination?
Therefore, b is true and group B is bias.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 6:05:57 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
No one in academia wants to teach creationism. People have to want to teach it before it gets 'oppressed'.
This is not true.
So, do you take the position that teachers should be allowed to teach both sides of the issue if they want to?
quote:
Well, perhaps when you claim that "evolutionists know evolution is wrong and teach it anyways, because they just can't stand to let go of materialism" you get your 'clairvoyance' from the same place i do... except the message gets muddled over there on your end.
There is no other reason not to allow the teaching of both sides of the issue (no good reasons).
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 6:08:46 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1370
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
And the whole point wooshed right over your head. Simply saying some christians don't believe in evolution doesnt make them more open minded. In fact, it makes most quite the opposite. The post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of illustrating that point.
The point that I was getting across is that just because some Christians reject evolution does not make them any less scientific. If anything, it makes them more open minded, open mindedness being something that science promotes. It certainly doesn't make them any less open minded, for Christians are more willing to accept a wider varieties of views than atheists.
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RE: Allah supports Creationism. - 7/27/2008 6:09:43 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1064
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
How many atheists believe the Pythagorean Theorem or atomic theory to be false?
The difference is that many/most Christians also accept atomic theory as well. In the case of evolution, only a very high percentage of atheists/materialists/naturalists believe in it.
A very high percentage of scientists accept evolution, and that's why it is taught in science classes.
quote:
You are certainly in no position to tell us why we reject evolution and that it has anything to do with our Christian beliefs.
I'm just taking people at their word.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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