Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different applications of scripture? (Full Version)

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KatMack -> Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different applications of scripture? (7/14/2008 1:43:06 PM)

Please be gentle with me, while I lurk a lot here in the Theo folders, this is the first time I've attempted to post here [;)]

I was reading a debate in another thread here about interpretation of a specific set of scriptures from two very intelligent people. I thought they both had excellent points about what those passages mean and it got me really thinking about application of scripture.

There are many passages that are open to interpretation as to how they should be applied in our world and current culture. I know that ultimately it's the Spirit that opens our eyes to those truths. My question is, does the Spirit deliberately lead us to different interpretations? I tend to think He does.

Example: I feel that remarriage after divorce is wrong. God forbid I ever end up divorced, but if I do, I know that I'm not to remarry as long as my husband is still alive. Having read many debates on the subject and spoken with my pastor, I can see how the passages regarding this could also mean that if a divorce was Biblical (adultery or a non-believing spouse leaving) remarriage might be allowed. I think that I have a weakness in this area and that if I believed that I could remarry Biblically, I would not have fought so hard to keep my non-believing spouse from leaving a couple of years ago. Could it be that the Spirit led me to a stricter interpretation of this passage in order to protect me and my family, but allow others a "looser" interpretation because He knows they are not weak in this area?

I don't think that this applies to issues of salvation at all (Jesus IS the only way to heaven and I don't see how scripture could be interpreted any other way [;)]). But I do think that in other areas, the Spirit may guide us differently. What do y'all think?

--Kat

Titled edited due to an excellent point made by GroupW below.



McFatty -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 1:45:32 PM)

I do believe that God emphasizes different things to different people. In areas where there isn't an absolute right way and an absolute wrong, it seems fair to say that God may use Scripture to emphasize one possible direction.



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 2:00:35 PM)

There is no "special revelation". The Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else.

There are not multiple meanings, but there is depth to what is revealed that can have multiple applications. The more I study the Word the more I truly believe that the depth of the truth contained therein is infinite.

Peace



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 2:23:06 PM)

quote:

There is no "special revelation". The Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else.
Then how does one tradition hold sincerely to the belief that women's heads should be covered and a different tradition sincerely claims this was only for the early church at Corinth? These are two different interpretations of Scripture, not merely two different applications of the same passage.



KatMack -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 2:32:16 PM)

I guess one of those groups must be wrong then? If URForgiven is correct.

URForgiven, do you have some scripture to share regarding "special revelation?" I must confess that the very phrase doesn't sit well with me, but I'd like to see some scripture before I agree with you.

--Kat



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 2:49:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

There is no "special revelation". The Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else.
Then how does one tradition hold sincerely to the belief that women's heads should be covered and a different tradition sincerely claims this was only for the early church at Corinth? These are two different interpretations of Scripture, not merely two different applications of the same passage.


drmark:

This is a good example of different interpretations based upon different views of how the Word of God should be handled. The first view states that regardless of changes in customs or cultures, the Bible teaches principles and truths which are timeless, therefore applicable at all times. The second view drags in current customs vs ancient customs and tries to avoid the plain application of Scripture.

The passage in 1 Corinthians is unambiguous, but has been deliberately misinterpreted by those who wish to disregard this teaching.

The same would be true for women preaching and teaching or taking authority in the local assembly, or many other teachings which are questioned.

To respond to the OP, it is not the Holy Spirit who leads us to different conclusions, but people who change the meaning of Scripture to suit themselves. Or change the Scriptures themselves if that is not sufficient (as do numerous modern bible versions).



McFatty -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 3:00:07 PM)

And we have our first argumentative statement of the thread!

[sm=thumbsup.gif] [sm=thumbsup.gif]



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 3:12:31 PM)

quote:

The passage in 1 Corinthians is unambiguous, but has been deliberately misinterpreted by those who wish to disregard this teaching.
Obviously not true, Ezra, since God-fearing, Bible-believing, Spirit-led Christians agree to disagree on this "unambiguous" passage!



GroupW -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 3:12:58 PM)

I love the 1st Corinthians passage regarding head covering - it's a wonderful little example of how one group of people can think the verse is absolutely clear in favor of head covering, another group of people can think it's absolutely clear that Paul is advocating against head covering, while still another thinks there is clear reason to believe this was a unique cultural issue that wasn't intended to be a rule for all times and all peoples, and then a last small minority that says positively beyond all shadow of a doubt that we really don't know.

That said, I do believe that there is only one proper interpretation of that passage. At the end of the day - Paul definitely had a specific message in mind for his intended audience. Whatever that was, that is the proper interpretation of the message. All four groups of people have their ideas and opinions on this passage, and only one (or maybe none) can be right. All four groups have reasons for what they believe - some of it based on the textual and historical evidence, some of it despite all our best intentions is biased according to our own experience and culture.

Another reason I like this passage is that it shows very clearly that there is a difference between interpretation and application. We often use the word "interpretation" to include the idea of how we put the principle of a passage to work in our lives today. Strictly speaking, that's "application". Here too, this passage provides the jumping off point for many groups of people with many different ideas.

I really love this passage!



KatMack -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 3:36:37 PM)

quote:

Another reason I like this passage is that it shows very clearly that there is a difference between interpretation and application. We often use the word "interpretation" to include the idea of how we put the principle of a passage to work in our lives today. Strictly speaking, that's "application". Here too, this passage provides the jumping off point for many groups of people with many different ideas.


Excellent point, GroupW (you tend to do that a lot, don't you [;)]). In fact, it's such a good point, I've edited to title of the thread to better clarify what I mean.

I know there is only one true and accurate meaning to Scripture, but I'm wondering if the Spirit can lead us to a more strict adherence to a particular passage based on our own personal areas of weakness.

ETA because I hit the "OK" button before I was done. I wonder in some debates if we aren't trying to force what the Spirit has told us as an individual onto others that may not have that same restriction placed on them. That's why I don't debate in the Remarriage After Divorce thread!

--Kat



GroupW -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 4:03:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatMack

I know there is only one true and accurate meaning to Scripture, but I'm wondering if the Spirit can lead us to a more strict adherence to a particular passage based on our own personal areas of weakness.

... I wonder in some debates if we aren't trying to force what the Spirit has told us as an individual onto others that may not have that same restriction placed on them.


Personally, I tend to think that it's not so much that we're interpreting or applying a single specific passage all that differently. I think it's more a case of how we see a particular passage in the context of all the rest of the bible.

The bible is full of a host of moral and spiritual principles. How we balance all those spiritual principles together in any given circumstance I think is where personal experience comes into play. Just the simple act of drinking a glass of wine in public raises several biblical principles. Some of those principles might be telling me to abstain, while other principles might be telling me to go ahead. Which voice I listen to most closely probably has a lot to do with my prior experience with alcohol, the degree to which alcoholism has impacted my life, how I personally balance the opinions of others versus my own needs (as well as how much I just like the taste of a good cabernet sauvignon!)

In the end, I think occasionally a given passage of scripture can indeed have opposing applications (like you say, applications not interpretations!)for two different people. Since no two people are likely to be in exactly the same set of circumstances, and since we often have to balance opposing principles with mutually exclusive solutions, I think what can be appropriate for one person given his/her particular needs and circumstances can indeed be different that what might be appropriate for another.



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 4:14:27 PM)

quote:

I think what can be appropriate for one person given his/her particular needs and circumstances can indeed be different that what might be appropriate for another.
So does this idea contradict the following: "there is only one true and accurate meaning to Scripture"?



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 4:31:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatMack

I guess one of those groups must be wrong then? If URForgiven is correct.

URForgiven, do you have some scripture to share regarding "special revelation?" I must confess that the very phrase doesn't sit well with me, but I'd like to see some scripture before I agree with you.

--Kat


"Special revelation" being one truth for me and another truth for you. There may be application that is unique to the individual, but the meaning, the truth, does not change.

Relativism is the accepted norm in the world, which is why God's wisdom is foolishness to them. Truth is absolute.

Peace



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 4:37:15 PM)

quote:

Truth is absolute.
So is it absolutely true that women must always cover their heads in church?



GroupW -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 4:50:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

I think what can be appropriate for one person given his/her particular needs and circumstances can indeed be different that what might be appropriate for another.
So does this idea contradict the following: "there is only one true and accurate meaning to Scripture"?


Not in my mind. As long as we define "meaning" as being consistent with the historical intent of the original author. Applications of the principles involved can be different depending on the exact nature of the challenge that one is faced with. Sometimes we're faced with competing principles and we have to make judgement calls. What we decide in those cases is very dependent on the unique circumstances that we're dealing with.



Bluethread -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 7:16:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

The passage in 1 Corinthians is unambiguous, but has been deliberately misinterpreted by those who wish to disregard this teaching.


I'm sure those on the other side of that particular argument feel the same way. To get into that particular issue would be off the current topic. However, it's these kinds of implications regarding motive that add to strongly held differences of opinion with regard to the Scriptures.

I do not believe that Ruach Ha Chedish(The Holy Spirit) gives different people different interpretations of Scripture based on their ability to accept things. On the contrary, I believe Ha Ruach(The Spirit) ernestly desires that we all come to a proper understanding of Ha Torah(The Word), but, because of our limited abilities to understand, we greave Ha Ruach(The Spirit) with our inability to understand.

Regarding the lack of concensus on the Scriptures, there is a long standing Jewish saying, "When two rabbis discuss the Scriptures, there are three opinions." This saying applies to all discussions of the Scriptures.



Liveloved -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/14/2008 7:33:13 PM)

quote:

There is no "special revelation". The Holy Spirit does not reveal one meaning to one person and another meaning to someone else.

There are not multiple meanings, but there is depth to what is revealed that can have multiple applications. The more I study the Word the more I truly believe that the depth of the truth contained therein is infinite.


Amen to this. The error is on the human side.

Applications are different but meaning is not. And our finiteness struggles with this.

Good question!



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 4:27:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

The passage in 1 Corinthians is unambiguous, but has been deliberately misinterpreted by those who wish to disregard this teaching.
Obviously not true, Ezra, since God-fearing, Bible-believing, Spirit-led Christians agree to disagree on this "unambiguous" passage!


Why would you say "obviously not true" when right here on these forums we see all kinds of attempts to change the meaning of certain Scriptures in order to accomodate certain theological leanings?

As to the "Spirit-led" only the Lord knows which person is being led by the Spirit and which one by the traditions of men. What Scripture reveals is that those who are truly Spirit-led are "in one accord" -- "one heart and of one soul" -- in all areas (Acts 4:24,31,32), whether it be doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread, or prayers (Acts 2:42).



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 4:52:53 AM)

quote:

At the end of the day - Paul definitely had a specific message in mind for his intended audience. Whatever that was, that is the proper interpretation of the message.


If this is the best we can do "at the end of the day", we are to be more pitied than the cults and false religionists, who are quite clear in their minds as to what their Scriptures reveal.

As a matter of fact, God never intended for us to arrive at such a lame conclusion. It was the Holy Spirit who spoke or wrote through Paul, and therefore His message would, by definition, be as clear to us today as to those Christians who first heard or read those epistles. "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).

The Holy Spirit is the one who guides us into all truth, therefore if there are conflicting interpretations, we must be prepared to either (a) establish that our interpretation is the correct one in the light of all Scripture (comparing Scripture with Scripture) or (b) abandon it with grace as being a false interpretation, no matter how many human "authorities" may claim to be on it's side, and no matter how long the pedigree of this interpretation.

Take the false teaching of baptismal regeneration (which may be traced all the way back to the 1st century). There are literally millions who believe this teaching, and a vast religious machine that promotes it, while anathematizing those who reject it (see the Council of Trent). But Scripture does not bear it out. Therefore it must be discarded as a man-made "interpretation".

Agreeing to disagree may sound wonderfully polite and politically correct, but it simply reveals that someone is not willing to let the Bible speak and let the Holy Spirit teach. This principle (which is simply modern accommodation to "live and let live") will not be found in Scripture. One accord, one heart and one soul is what Scripture teaches.



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 5:01:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Truth is absolute.
So is it absolutely true that women must always cover their heads in church?


Why don't you tell us solely on the basis of Scripture?



ThursdaysChild -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 9:14:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Regarding the lack of concensus on the Scriptures, there is a long standing Jewish saying, "When two rabbis discuss the Scriptures, there are three opinions." This saying applies to all discussions of the Scriptures.


[:D] I love that!

That is most certainly true.



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 9:22:48 AM)

quote:

quote:

So is it absolutely true that women must always cover their heads in church?

Why don't you tell us solely on the basis of Scripture?
Because there is NO basis in Scripture to solely make that determination - only your and my interpretations which we already know differ!



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 2:43:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

quote:

So is it absolutely true that women must always cover their heads in church?

Why don't you tell us solely on the basis of Scripture?
Because there is NO basis in Scripture to solely make that determination - only your and my interpretations which we already know differ!


Actually there are three critical bases in Scripture upon which this teaching is grounded: (1) the nature of the relationships within the Godhead, (2) the nature of the relationship between the first man and woman, as designed by God, and as meant to apply to all men and women, and (3) the nature of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Furthermore, the presence of angels who witness the gatherings of the saints is an important related issue.



Ezra -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 2:53:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThursdaysChild

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Regarding the lack of concensus on the Scriptures, there is a long standing Jewish saying, "When two rabbis discuss the Scriptures, there are three opinions." This saying applies to all discussions of the Scriptures.


[:D] I love that!

That is most certainly true.


At the same time, it should be noted that rabbis debating the fine points of the Torah are a far cry from Christians being taught by the Holy Spirit so that they are of one heart, one soul and one mind. Scripture says that we have the mind of Christ, and there is no discord in the Godhead.

When Christ walked this earth, He said little about the rabbinic schools which He fully knew about. Instead He spoke the words of Spirit and Life with authority. The apostles, likewise, did not debate the fine points of Christian truth. They proclaimed with authority the teachings given to them by Christ, and they expounded on the OT without error, since the Holy Spirit was their Teacher.

Today many Christians think that endless debate is called for. That is certainly not the case, since Paul teaches by the Holy Spirit that it is unprofitable.



drmark -> RE: Does the Holy Spirit lead us to different Interpretations of scripture? (7/15/2008 3:06:41 PM)

quote:

Actually there are three critical bases in Scripture upon which this teaching is grounded
And you are using all of these "critical bases in Scripture" to derive absolute truth regarding head cover for women? Sorry, Ezra, but your exegetical ability score in my book just dropped a notch!



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