Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (Full Version)

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tenfour -> Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/12/2008 11:23:11 PM)

They did this last year and plan to do it again next year, but it got canceled this year.

http://www.koco.com/news/16860079/detail.html

For liability reasons, doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Also, many people probably don't understand exactly why anyone would want to own a weapon that is not for hunting. (I personally don't really understand why someone would want one unless they were a huge gun enthusiast/collector.)

So to me it comes across as a church doing something purely for shock value or sensationalism to get attention. Like when that church in Kentucky made a big deal out of their youth writing letters to Britney Spears.



lightshineon -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/12/2008 11:42:25 PM)

I wrote about this in the Ministry Leaders section. I live in Oklahoma, and though how stupid can people be? It is against the law number one. Number two how many lives are being put in peril, because the angry bullied kid won a semi-automatic weapon at church? How many school shootings are enough?



gaylel1 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 10:54:58 AM)

Boy, the stunts that church leadership pulls these days. Are these guys seeking free publicity or what?



rlj -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 1:30:49 PM)

I don't see it as a publicity stunt. There are thousands and thousands of kids who hunt. The event is being promoted as a retreat/shooting hunting activity. Churches promote Super Bowl get togethers, potlucks, picnics, all kinds of activities and I don't think it's such a big deal that in an area where hunting is popular that they would do something like this and have a gun giveaway. If the kid can show up and shoot and can shoot in something like this they already have access to weapons anyway especially if this is some kind of competition.



Stephanos -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 2:18:43 PM)

FYI at my CHRISTIAN COLLEGE, during dear season, over half of the guys cars had their rifles in them (note not half the hunters..HALF THE GUYS AT SCHOOL). And there were several ladys who had theirs in their cars too. This is ON CAMPUS mind you.

I dont see what the big deal is. And BTW the AR-15 IS starting to be used in game hunting. And it HAS, for several years, been a favorite of target shooters.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 2:34:16 PM)

So long as this exchange is legal and not designed to make some sort of political statement, this Northern Dem doesn't have a problem with it. It seems like these kids already know how to handle guns, and their parents were probably well-aware of this raffle before they signed their kids up for the hunting trip.



bob97 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 3:32:16 PM)

quote:

It is against the law number one.


I don't think it is against the law...the gun is a civilian AR15 and I believe is quite legal. As far as being an assault rifle...it looks like a military version but is no more dangerous than any other weapon with a 5 round clip (which this gun is sold with). In fact a common shot gun would do more damage than the AR15 which is a .223 cal.

People hear the term assault rifle and they get all excited.

How about we just give away a Ford Mustang which will go 120mph...no one could get hurt with that.

Bob



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 5:32:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wrote about this in the Ministry Leaders section. I live in Oklahoma, and though how stupid can people be?


People who don't agree with you are automatically stupid?

quote:


It is against the law number one.


What is against the law? The gun is legal...

quote:


Number two how many lives are being put in peril, because the angry bullied kid won a semi-automatic weapon at church? How many school shootings are enough?


Gang members are joining the military to get traning and teaching other gang members how to kill... Does that make the military responsible?

John



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 5:35:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

It is against the law number one.


I don't think it is against the law...the gun is a civilian AR15 and I believe is quite legal. As far as being an assault rifle...it looks like a military version but is no more dangerous than any other weapon with a 5 round clip (which this gun is sold with). In fact a common shot gun would do more damage than the AR15 which is a .223 cal.

People hear the term assault rifle and they get all excited.

How about we just give away a Ford Mustang which will go 120mph...no one could get hurt with that.

Bob



As well the term assault rifle normally refers to a select fire weapon... The gun is question is generally considered evil due to appearance.. The M1 Garand I bought my 12 year old is far more lethal yet because it looks like what people think a gun should look like it's ok...

John



Marcus. -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 5:43:06 PM)

Thanks for the comment about what an assault rifle is. Too many people base their comments of weapons from appearance instead of function, which is what the real difference is. That plus assault rifles use intermediate caliber cartridges (btwn rifle and pistol calibers).



Zhi -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/13/2008 6:23:47 PM)

It would appear that the event is, in part at least, a shooting competition. As such, giving away a gun favored by target shooters (you know, the kind of people that would go to a shooting competition) kind of makes sense. Now that the shooting competition has been dropped from this year's conference due to the instructor of the shooting competition hurting his foot and being unable to attend (and therefore apparently unable to hold the shooting competition this was a prize for), they've cancelled the gun giveaway, which also makes sense.

This seems like much ado about nothing.



Veritas -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 7:20:56 AM)

Can you beat a simi-auto assault rifle into a plowshare?



mapachito13 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 8:27:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wrote about this in the Ministry Leaders section. I live in Oklahoma, and though how stupid can people be? It is against the law number one. Number two how many lives are being put in peril, because the angry bullied kid won a semi-automatic weapon at church? How many school shootings are enough?


I heartily agree with you not to mention the message it can give people concerning what Christianity is about.

Bone spurs by the pastor is the reason they cancelled it? I think it is more the type of publicity and reaction to the giveaway that caused the cancellation. Everything was a go until he realized this was going to appear on the TV news. Then he suddenly developed "bone spurs"?



IonMoon -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 8:42:32 AM)

My dd walked away from a local sportsman's club event (not church related) at 14 with a rifle AND a bottle of Jack Daniels...?!? We still have the whiskey, because the only people we know who drink it are alcoholics, so we don't feel comfortable giving it to them...

Anyhow... As long as it is a legal firearm, so what?

The one problem I do have with such give-a-ways is that it circumvents any background searches and could end up in the hands of someone who should not have it. But there are so many ways around that, I think this is not a huge issue.

Tara P



lightshineon -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 8:46:49 AM)

What I said was illegal, is a child cannot buy a gun until he is eighteen. What about background checks required by the law? My brother owned guns as a young boy. We now keep in the closet his collection, per request of the Secret Service, because he is Mentally Ill, and threatened the president of the Untied States five years ago. My brother as teenager was bullied very badly at school, he told me many time ( secretly) that he planned to take the gun to school, and blow his tormentors away. Thank Goodness, he never acted on it. I am sure Eric, and Dylans mom, and dad wish they would have known their sons better. Giving weapons to children is just plain stupid. It may have been acceptable in days past, but we live in a different world. How many of you hunt for your food every day. The only hunting we do is at the Super walmart. What libility would the church have if a troubled child won a gun went on a killing spree. We always here, where the guns came from even at Virginia Tech. I think the right to bear arms is important, and a necessary thing, but know who the heck, is getting a semi-automatic weapon. I cannot imagine giving a child a gun. I live in an area, that hunting is the norm, like I said we have twelve guns ( another forum). I jst would not give my children a gun if they are under eighteen. John, also please get over yourself for once. I did not call you stupid. I called no one person stupid, I said it is a stupid act, to give guns to children in church. The church can, and would be liable if an unfortunate event happened. On adults you can do background checks, you cannot on children. I guess it is ok to give a gun to a well skilled killer, ( because it is a contest) opposed to a killer that has to develop skills [8|] M, I agree that it make the church look bad, redneck if you will. I agree the bone spurs happened at a very good time for the judge. I guess sitting and judging would not be an option, and is he the only judge in the state of Oklahoma.



Zhi -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 10:07:40 AM)

He was the judge of that particular competition because he is also a pastor of the church in question.

I take exception at the concept that anyone who gets a free gun is automatically a killer. It's also not "in church", it's basically a church camp. I have been to a church camp that offered target shooting as an elective activity.

I started shooting under parental supervision at the age of 4. I have never killed anything with a gun, because I didn't want to and my parents didn't insist on it. Target shooting is fun. Also, I know if I ever had to, I could hunt for my own food, though frankly it seems like somewhat of a waste of time.

I would expect that the children participating in the shooting competition and gun giveaway are doing so with parental permission, as that tends to be required for any event that there is even a vague chance one could be injured at.



jazzact13 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 10:29:16 AM)

quote:

I heartily agree with you not to mention the message it can give people concerning what Christianity is about.


So, giving away a gun in a target shooting contest is unchristian? I doubt it.

Here's something of interest on this topic, or at least how this topic is going. The facts at the end are of interest to those who think "Guns are evil!!!"

Gun Control is Not about Guns, but about Control (IV)



lightshineon -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 11:18:12 AM)

It is just stupid, and who's name is the weapon regidstered under? I know it is not the kids name, unless eighteen or over. I did not say all kids are killers, that have guns, but childrens mind is not mature enough to have weapons. I do not care who's parents give permission. They do not know every family situation. How many children accidently shot themselves or others each year? They do not have the maturity to handle a semi-automatic weapon period. It is like giving a kid a high powered race car to drive. I have been to the highschool parking lot many times, and see the immature way these children drive. I have even called the police. I am not convinced that a child is mentally ready for gun ownership. All you see is when they have access is drive by shootings. Children should not be given guns as gifts. especially from a church. I do not buy the bone spur excuse either. Please. Oh, and by the way I mentioned we own guns, and notice my husbands uniform. Gun control is a different subject all togather, atleast gub control with adults. I guess it could be said gun control for kids could the subject of this thread.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jazzact13

quote:

I heartily agree with you not to mention the message it can give people concerning what Christianity is about.


So, giving away a gun in a target shooting contest is unchristian? I doubt it.

Here's something of interest on this topic, or at least how this topic is going. The facts at the end are of interest to those who think "Guns are evil!!!"

Gun Control is Not about Guns, but about Control (IV)



cow451 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 11:18:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wrote about this in the Ministry Leaders section. I live in Oklahoma, and though how stupid can people be? It is against the law number one. Number two how many lives are being put in peril, because the angry bullied kid won a semi-automatic weapon at church? How many school shootings are enough?


lights, you and I don't often agree, but this is a classic. [:'(]



lightshineon -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 11:22:54 AM)

Hey stranger things have happened cow.[;)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wrote about this in the Ministry Leaders section. I live in Oklahoma, and though how stupid can people be? It is against the law number one. Number two how many lives are being put in peril, because the angry bullied kid won a semi-automatic weapon at church? How many school shootings are enough?


lights, you and I don't often agree, but this is a classic. [:'(]



phreddy -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 11:33:07 AM)

In most states rifles are not registered. The purchaser would have to fill out the normal background checks. In many states, even though someone under 18 cannot buy a gun, it is legal to give them a gun as a gift. If the parents are uncomfortable with their child winning this gun, they can keep the kids from going to the shooting contest.



Zhi -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 11:34:22 AM)

Mmm.

Would it bother you as much if it were a shooting contest that wasn't church affiliated? Assuming that the kids' parents were on board with them doing shooting competitions and potentially getting a gun as a prize, etc.

Incidentally, it is legal to give a minor in Oklahoma a rifle. It is legal for a minor to own a rifle in Oklahoma. Rifles do not require registration in Oklahoma, there is no owner licensing for rifles, etc. For that matter, handguns aren't registered in Oklahoma either, though minor ownership of handguns is restricted.



Stephanos -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 12:20:05 PM)

I went shooting with my Boy Scout Troop once or twice when I was a Cub Scout. Got to shoot a .22. Was that wrong? Oh did I mention that this troop was based at and mostly had members of my church at the time?

Oh and the promotion is NOT Illegal. As it has already been pointed out, there is NOTHING illegal about a child "owning" a firearm. They just are in able to buy it. If their parents want to give them a firearm, that is perfectly fine. And if at a contest such as this, a child wins one, PERFECTLY LEGAL! Or are you doubters saying that parents who take their children hunting, and get their children their own firearms, are doing something illegal?



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 1:29:56 PM)

A semi-automatic assault rifle?? I've seen just about any firearm legally available labeled an assault rifle by people who know zip about guns and I'm going to operate on the assumption that the reporter on this story knows zip. I've used a semi-automatic gun for hunting, as do many, many people I know. My church raffled off a really nice shotgun when I was in HS and I bought several tickets. Of course, I already owned upwards of 10 guns by the time I hit HS anyway.



jazzact13 -> RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference (7/14/2008 1:46:35 PM)

Perhaps I was unclear, lights, but I wasn't really addressing you. I didn't think of you as a anti-gun-in-total person, though I don't agree with your contentions, either. But concerning my own comment, there were others who were making the "anti-gun" comments, and I was directing my remarks to them.



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