RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 2:47:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1984
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Because somehow it's now an issue when a Christian having their faith in God uses a weapon to defend themselves... Some strange idea that faith has morphed since David's time...
John
There certainly is a God-given right to self-defense, and I don't think God opposes people owning guns, but the question here is how handing out guns is involved in discipleship.
I think we've established that not a single verse in the New Testament glorifies weapon ownership or can reasonably be interpreted as being in support of mandatory sword ownership. So the real question here is what legitimate discipleship purpose does this assault weapon rifle have in the Church?
If we can't answer that, maybe it would be healthier to offer free pizza for a year as a prize, instead.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 2:53:17 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1984
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
And since guns are not Christian in your view what are we supposed to do if we are left with no other recourse but to defend ourselves?
John
Ye of little faith!!! 
Why must we assume that God isn't capable of stopping threats that are against his plan?
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 8:42:15 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
There certainly is a God-given right to self-defense, and I don't think God opposes people owning guns, but the question here is how handing out guns is involved in discipleship.
I find it very interesting that someone hasn't tossed out the legalism argument here...
As you stated, you really can't fing anything wrong with what the church did, but it looks bad? Why? Mostly because people who don't like and know how to handle a guns have made it a boogey man of sorts...
quote:
I think we've established that not a single verse in the New Testament glorifies weapon ownership or can reasonably be interpreted as being in support of mandatory sword ownership.
Who in this thread spoke of the bible glorify weapons and mandatory ownership of a weapon? Can we at least deal with subject matter? And it's clear that not a single verse speaks against ownership and defending oneself. So if it's right in the sight of God to own a weapon and use in defense of oneself and those you are responible for what law of God is being broken and where does this fall in regards to Christian liberty?
quote:
So the real question here is what legitimate discipleship purpose does this assault weapon rifle have in the Church?
For the sake of the truth Is wasn't an assualt weapon and does everything the church does have to involve what you are other feel is proper discipleship. My grandfather preached for 35 years and hunted during that whole time. And most places there was a hunting clun within the church... You think that the use of guns while hunting made discipleship impossible? The people that came from all over when my grandfather passed away says otherwise... He was a man of the people, not some statue who didn't barely breathe... He put meat and fish on the table of people in and out of the church. You think those people wondered about guns and legitimate discipleship? They saw a man of God not simply preaching it on Sunday, but living it 24/7...
Btw... If bars are a place where legitimate discipleship can take place there is no cause to question what the church was doing..
quote:
If we can't answer that, maybe it would be healthier to offer free pizza for a year as a prize, instead.
There is nothing against the church doing what it did apart from opinions... You can say you don't like it, but I yet to see a charge against the church that has bibilcal foundation in regards to what is right or wrong...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 9:57:09 PM
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Phulish
Posts: 39
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tenfour
Also, many people probably don't understand exactly why anyone would want to own a weapon that is not for hunting. (I personally don't really understand why someone would want one unless they were a huge gun enthusiast/collector.)
Then people simply don't understand the purpose of the 2nd ammendment. It's not to allow for hunting or shooting cans but for personal defense and the promotion of a free society. It's a check and balance against corrupt government and foreign invasion.
Read some of the writings of Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers. When the government stops caring about the constitution and personal liberties the 2nd ammendment comes into play and provides a check.
Don't think Jefferson had a point? Then look at History. It's also to prevent atrocities like Nanking from happening who's people were disarmed by their own government prior to the Japanese having their way with them. Imagine what a foreign army or a tyrannical government would have to go through in this country currently with the number of guns in the hands of an alerted populace. Then there's disasters like Katrina where law-enforcement will be unable to respond immediately if your home is being looted or you're threatened bodily.
Still not convinced? Try common sense. Crime has only gone up with gun control directed at assualt rifles and so on. Criminals are more bold knowing home-owners aren't packing. It is not a solution. Gun control will happen gradually as people naively hand over ultimate security to central government and allow their minds to be manipulated by gun crime media coverage and the characterizing of gun owners as gangsters or senseless rednecks.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 10:05:45 PM
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Marcus.
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After reading the writings of Jefferson, Adams, Mason, et al I purchased a weapon suitable for militia use. I believe it is our duty as much as they did.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/22/2008 10:18:48 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
And since guns are not Christian in your view what are we supposed to do if we are left with no other recourse but to defend ourselves?
John
First, my point is that it OK for you to own your guns per the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.
Second, the only Bible quote in the NT you come up with is the Luke 22:36 which I have shown you are taking out of context.
Third, if that was a command from Jesus why wasn't the early church fighting with swords in its defence? Did they forget His "command", choose to ignore it or did they take it in the context it was meant?
Lastly, What part of "last resort" is lost on you?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/23/2008 12:24:16 AM
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Phulish
Posts: 39
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
And since guns are not Christian in your view what are we supposed to do if we are left with no other recourse but to defend ourselves?
John
First, my point is that it OK for you to own your guns per the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.
Second, the only Bible quote in the NT you come up with is the Luke 22:36 which I have shown you are taking out of context.
Third, if that was a command from Jesus why wasn't the early church fighting with swords in its defence? Did they forget His "command", choose to ignore it or did they take it in the context it was meant?
Lastly, What part of "last resort" is lost on you?
Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this world meaning his disciples were not to establish the Kingdom on earth by force like muslims did. This has nothing to do with personal and civil defense and Jesus never said we could not own arms or defend ourselves. How do you know none of the early Christians didn't attempt to defend themselves and their families? It's the duty of those who are able to defend the weak and those in their care. No sensible person in a threatening situation questions this. In most cases persecuted Christians were probably just helpless and were unable to. Others by the grace of God were happy to die for their faith and chose not to defend themselves but that is a highly personal calling not a mandate. There are many other types threats besides religious persecution anyway. Are you saying we have no right to defend ourselves for any reason?
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/26/2008 7:57:26 PM
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Witheringfire
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Wow. Just read through seven pages filed with a fair amount of common sense...and a great deal of hysterical hand wringing. Bottom line:
The Church was in compliance with the law.
The firearm in question is legal.
The "prize" was in keeping with the parameters of the contest. (and a pretty cool idea and prize too).
Nothing in the Word prohibits the ownership and use of weapons/fireams for hunting or self defense.
Anything beyond these simple and clear realities is merely a knee-jerk reaction based purely on emotion rather than common sense and fact. Fireamrs are tools - no more, no less. Those who 'demonize' them are giving into their own irrational fears.
For the record, I work in Correctional LE. I fully support "shall issue" carry laws nationwide, providing individuals aquire and maintain adequate training on an on-going basis. And while I don't walk into Church with one of my rifles slung over my shoulder, I always CC everywhere I go.
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