RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle during youth conference
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 2:16:13 PM
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mapachito13
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When I first think of Christianity somehow a rifle of any type does not remotely come into my mind! Let's try hand guns. Nope, no association for me there either.
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Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 2:19:53 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1098
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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So are you saying Christians should not own/buy/ect any firearms whatsoever?
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:05:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
I heartily agree with you not to mention the message it can give people concerning what Christianity is about.
For instance?
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:15:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
When I first think of Christianity somehow a rifle of any type does not remotely come into my mind! Let's try hand guns. Nope, no association for me there either.
What you think isn't of any concern, what the bible says is what matters...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:20:28 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2198
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quote:
How many children accidently shot themselves or others each year?
How many of those kids who shot some one got their hands on a gun that they shouldn't have had access to?
How many of those kids who own guns had this happen?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:42:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
What I said was illegal, is a child cannot buy a gun until he is eighteen. What about background checks required by the law?
If the person who wins a gun isn't of age a parent deals with the paper work... Nothing illegal...
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My brother owned guns as a young boy. We now keep in the closet his collection, per request of the Secret Service, because he is Mentally Ill, and threatened the president of the Untied States five years ago. My brother as teenager was bullied very badly at school, he told me many time ( secretly) that he planned to take the gun to school, and blow his tormentors away. Thank Goodness, he never acted on it. I am sure Eric, and Dylans mom, and dad wish they would have known their sons better.
That doesn't mean the children as a whole are not able...
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Giving weapons to children is just plain stupid.
No, giving weapons to the children you mentioned would be stupid... Teaching children to respect guns is very smart....
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It may have been acceptable in days past, but we live in a different world. How many of you hunt for your food every day.
Nothing new under the sun....
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What libility would the church have if a troubled child won a gun went on a killing spree.
Depends... The church isn't acting unlawful so what real liability should they be held to?
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We always here, where the guns came from even at Virginia Tech. I think the right to bear arms is important, and a necessary thing, but know who the heck, is getting a semi-automatic weapon.
What is wrong with a gun that shots a bullet with each pull of the trigger?
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I cannot imagine giving a child a gun. I live in an area, that hunting is the norm, like I said we have twelve guns ( another forum). I jst would not give my children a gun if they are under eighteen.
Given the what you have posted I can believe you cannot imagine giving a child a gun, but that doesn't mean every child is like those you spoke of...
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John, also please get over yourself for once. I did not call you stupid.
I didn't say you did... So I guess I don't need to get over myself...
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I called no one person stupid, I said it is a stupid act, to give guns to children in church.
You said: how stupid can people be...
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The church can, and would be liable if an unfortunate event happened.
Which of course wouldn't be right since it didn't do anything against the law...
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On adults you can do background checks, you cannot on children.
As stated... Checks on adults are done when children are given guns. I have given my son's guns and it's perfectly legal...
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I guess it is ok to give a gun to a well skilled killer, ( because it is a contest) opposed to a killer that has to develop skills 
What logic are you attempting to apply here?
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M, I agree that it make the church look bad, redneck if you will. I agree the bone spurs happened at a very good time for the judge. I guess sitting and judging would not be an option, and is he the only judge in the state of Oklahoma.
You have anything biblical to support this judgment against the church? And sorry the opinion of folks who are against guns doesn't suffice...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:53:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
It is just stupid, and who's name is the weapon regidstered under? I know it is not the kids name, unless eighteen or over. I did not say all kids are killers, that have guns, but childrens mind is not mature enough to have weapons.
Yet when they turn 18 they do? How is that? Does something magic happen?
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I do not care who's parents give permission.
You speak for all parents now?
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They do not know every family situation.
You seem to believe every family situation is liken to yours and you base you unfounded claims on it...
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I am not convinced that a child is mentally ready for gun ownership.
I am convinced some adults are not, nor never mentally ready for gun ownership...
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All you see is when they have access is drive by shootings.
Unfounded...
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Children should not be given guns as gifts. especially from a church.
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 3:56:38 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
So are you saying Christians should not own/buy/ect any firearms whatsoever?
No I am saying that it should not be associated with a church function. You want to own your own private arsenal! Go right ahead!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 4:00:50 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
And where Biblically does it say I have to own one or that I'm defective if I don't want one.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 4:02:03 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
So are you saying Christians should not own/buy/ect any firearms whatsoever?
No I am saying that it should not be associated with a church function. You want to own your own private arsenal! Go right ahead!
It might be more appropriate for a church to give away a Bible with a set of good commentaries and study aids. But they, sadly, would probably go unused...
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 4:06:16 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3948
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
Perhaps I was unclear, lights, but I wasn't really addressing you. I didn't think of you as a anti-gun-in-total person, though I don't agree with your contentions, either. But concerning my own comment, there were others who were making the "anti-gun" comments, and I was directing my remarks to them.
To clarify, I am not anti-gun. I am anti-stupid church activities, which covers this one. I don't think churches should be using prizes as inducements.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 4:26:36 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2198
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quote:
It might be more appropriate for a church to give away a Bible with a set of good commentaries and study aids. But they, sadly, would probably go unused...
Well, let's say you went out to practise shooting and you forgot to bring any decent targets but then you got that prize book you won at the shooting competition... :P
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 8:26:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
And where Biblically does it say I have to own one or that I'm defective if I don't want one.
You are saying it's wrong for the church to do so... Based on what?
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 11:03:05 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
And where Biblically does it say I have to own one or that I'm defective if I don't want one.
You are saying it's wrong for the church to do so... Based on what?
John
Nothing John, I think all churches should pass out one AR-15 to each member. And they will know we are Christians based on our superior firepower! Forgot the chapter and verse on this one!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 11:05:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
And where Biblically does it say I have to own one or that I'm defective if I don't want one.
You are saying it's wrong for the church to do so... Based on what?
John
Nothing John, I think all churches should pass out one AR-15 to each member. And they will know we are Christians based on our superior firepower! Forgot the chapter and verse on this one!
In other words you don't so your charge agains the church is based solely on your opinion... I might be taking a leap here but I believe that doesn't equate to a righteous judgment...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 11:34:01 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Wrong, and there is nothing biblical against a church giving away a gun...
John
And where Biblically does it say I have to own one or that I'm defective if I don't want one.
You are saying it's wrong for the church to do so... Based on what?
John
Nothing John, I think all churches should pass out one AR-15 to each member. And they will know we are Christians based on our superior firepower! Forgot the chapter and verse on this one!
In other words you don't so your charge agains the church is based solely on your opinion... I might be taking a leap here but I believe that doesn't equate to a righteous judgment...
John
And you haven't overwhlmed me with your profound knowledge of Scripture that says we have to carry one. Were Peter and Paul killed because they were carrying? Didn't Jesus tell them "It is enough"? Luke 22:51
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/14/2008 11:49:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
And you haven't overwhlmed me with your profound knowledge of Scripture that says we have to carry one.
Nor have I made the case... I never said nor implied anyone must carry one. So the only reason you bring this up is cover the fact you have NO basis other than your personal opinion on the matter...
You cannot and have not supported your view with God's word...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 12:22:12 AM
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lightshineon
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Well John lets give them a six pack of beer, they are not mature enough ubtil twenty-one, but hey parents permission. Why Not? How about tabbaco? cripture does not have anything about that. I know condoms why not?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 12:32:12 AM
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lightshineon
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Oh, I did take it personal.  I am so conservative, I am sure that it seems strange that I am taking this position. I worry about kids alot, especially the angry and outcast.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
Perhaps I was unclear, lights, but I wasn't really addressing you. I didn't think of you as a anti-gun-in-total person, though I don't agree with your contentions, either. But concerning my own comment, there were others who were making the "anti-gun" comments, and I was directing my remarks to them.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 12:44:30 AM
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Zhi
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*rubs her eyes*
Are you really suggesting that encouraging kids to fornicate is the same thing as teaching them gun safety through target shooting?
Perhaps I'm more tired than I thought. At least I'm kind of hoping that I'm dreaming this.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 2:34:46 AM
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clayton994
Posts: 72
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Bendigo, Australia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
*rubs her eyes*
Are you really suggesting that encouraging kids to fornicate is the same thing as teaching them gun safety through target shooting?
Perhaps I'm more tired than I thought. At least I'm kind of hoping that I'm dreaming this.
As I understand it, Lights was merely pointing out that just as children aren't mature enough to handle condoms, alcohol, tobacco, nor are they mature enough to handle guns. If John believes that they are mature enough to handle guns, why not trust them with alcohol as well, for example. The issue here isn't the rights and wrongs of underage drink, sex or smoking vs. the rights and wrongs of gun safety through target shooting, but rather a question of maturity. I agree with Lights. I don't believe that children, as a group, are mature enough to handle guns, and am astounded by the number of people here who think otherwise, but I guess we're all different and come from different backgrounds and upbringings.
Cheers,
Clayton.
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 11:47:30 AM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1098
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Facts are parents have been taking their PRETEEN kids hunting since the FOUNDING of this country. Prior to the modern age, it was one of the great bonding experiences between father and son. Now, today, sadly we have lost that when you dont have to go out hunting for your food and kids can sit in front of the TV 24/7 not learning a single thing, growing up hating their parents becasue they think they dont love them. What a sad pathetic life we lead.
Give me a father who gets his child a rifle and teaches them how to use it over a parent who gets their kid a video game system and a cell phone ANY DAY!!
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 6:09:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well John lets give them a six pack of beer, they are not mature enough ubtil twenty-one, but hey parents permission. Why Not? How about tabbaco? cripture does not have anything about that. I know condoms why not?
Beer is covered by the law of the land(which we are to follow if it doesn't conflict with God's law, so it is covered in the scriptures), as well as tobacco, and giving them condoms would be telling them it's ok to fornicate...
You have anything else?
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 6:13:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clayton994
As I understand it, Lights was merely pointing out that just as children aren't mature enough to handle condoms, alcohol, tobacco, nor are they mature enough to handle guns. If John believes that they are mature enough to handle guns, why not trust them with alcohol as well, for example.
Simple... The law of the land...
quote:
The issue here isn't the rights and wrongs of underage drink, sex or smoking vs. the rights and wrongs of gun safety through target shooting, but rather a question of maturity. I agree with Lights.
The issue is a person is basing their opinion on very personal situations and applying them to all. Not very sound logic...
quote:
I don't believe that children, as a group, are mature enough to handle guns, and am astounded by the number of people here who think otherwise, but I guess we're all different and come from different backgrounds and upbringings.
More than a few children fought the British and they didn't toss stones at them... As well many children lied about their age and have fought in wars...
John
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RE: Church plans to give away a semi-auto assault rifle... - 7/15/2008 6:26:26 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3948
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Facts are parents have been taking their PRETEEN kids hunting since the FOUNDING of this country. Prior to the modern age, it was one of the great bonding experiences between father and son. Now, today, sadly we have lost that when you dont have to go out hunting for your food and kids can sit in front of the TV 24/7 not learning a single thing, growing up hating their parents becasue they think they dont love them. What a sad pathetic life we lead.
Give me a father who gets his child a rifle and teaches them how to use it over a parent who gets their kid a video game system and a cell phone ANY DAY!!
How would the church decide that the winner is mature enough for the prize?
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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