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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 10:42:56 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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how does anyone figure out 18% in their heads? 
I have a difficult enough time with 15%, mulitplying out 10% and then adding half-again to that total...
I just leave 20% out of frustration.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 11:21:34 AM
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BlueAdept
Posts: 100
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20% - 2% = 18%
35.50 x .1 = 3.55 x 2 = 7.10 - 10% (.71) = 6.39
10% is equal to 2% since it is 1/10th of the 20%. (Decimal slide)
Simple right?
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 1:36:48 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlueAdept
20% - 2% = 18%
35.50 x .1 = 3.55 x 2 = 7.10 - 10% (.71) = 6.39
10% is equal to 2% since it is 1/10th of the 20%. (Decimal slide)
Simple right?
 sure...
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 1:37:06 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bridgitt
It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.
I think it would make it easier if restaurants just paid their employees full wages like other companies do.
I thought that way too...when I was a server. Then I did the math.
Restaurants, for the most part, are a "low margin" business....
and, it would have been impossible for the restaurant to pay all it's servers the amount of money i earned when combining my tips/payroll......and remain competitive.....
what would happen if I knew that no matter what I did while serving my customers, that I would get just as much as everyone else working there.....the incentive to be "the best" and excel is taken away.......just go to a fine clothing store whose employees pay is at least partially based on commission.....they'll do ANYTHING for you....the service is beyond compare.....
Starbucks is an excellent example of this (what happens when you pay employees full salaries/benefits). For a business that is in the "service industry", Starbucks pays it's employees VERY well, as well as offering it's employees some of the best benefits in the "service industry".....as a result, in the end, someone has to pay for it. (I know they typically have a "tip jar", but that's a bit different).............How many of you glance at Starbucks and don't even bother going there because their prices are way too high? So, why are they?.....the amount spent per employee, for a business in that industry, is one of a few reasons why they do charge more than most other places. Their profit margins are only slightly higher than the average for the industry....(high profit sales on their appliances, coffee mugs, music, account for that)......the other primary factor for the "sticker shock" is the amount they spend on "raw materials" is much higher than average....kind of like buying steaks for Ruths' Chris Steakhouse vs. "the Sizzler"......
I generally don't do Starbucks because I'm not supposed to have caffeine and I can make a much better cup of decaf for a fraction of the price at home.
As far as incentive- in any of my jobs working with the public (which has been all but one of my jobs- even that one was a hotel maid) the incentive was that you got to keep your job if you did well and didn't get to keep it if the customers weren't happy. Working as a hotel maid, I got paid minimum wage + tips. The other jobs did not offer tips, and I still got the full minimum wage or higher. Wal  Mart you can get fired for accepting tips or any type of "gift" from a customer. The McDonald's franchises that I worked for "strongly discourage" an employee from accepting tips or gifts from customers.
quote:
20% - 2% = 18%
35.50 x .1 = 3.55 x 2 = 7.10 - 10% (.71) = 6.39
10% is equal to 2% since it is 1/10th of the 20%. (Decimal slide)
Simple right?
   
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 2:11:09 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
and I can make a much better cup of decaf for a fraction of the price at home.
in most ANY case, you can always make whatever you want cheaper at home (if you have the time, and proper ingredients/equipment).....though, I don't have an espresso machine at home, so making my iced mocha, or java chip frapp at home would be quite a challenge...plus, iam not at home very much....usually it's as I am coming back to the office from lunch, or even on my way home in the evening, when I have a "Frapp Attack"....
quote:
As far as incentive- in any of my jobs working with the public (which has been all but one of my jobs- even that one was a hotel maid) the incentive was that you got to keep your job if you did well and didn't get to keep it
BUT, the bigger incentive isn't "keep your job", but it's to EARN a significant income (for someone working in that industry)....which I did as a server "back in the day".....so, with tips, i earned far more than the restaurant could have ever paid me (hourly)....I could have not been so attentive and not done quite as good on the job, and, while still "meeting the standards" of the restaurant, earned MUCH less.....but, I worked hard to excel, and was rewarded for it.
But, you're right...there are MANY jobs out "in the public" that you can have, and not have any incentive to do any more than what was "expected"....just the bare minimum to get by.
OR, if you have the initiative, you can CHOOSE to get a good tipping job, which, in the end, will likely pay much better than any "base pay" job you can find.....As a waiter, I certainly would not have wanted my pay to be limited to what the restaurant would pay me....
I would have likely gotten a job elsewhere....
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 2:26:06 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
As far as incentive- in any of my jobs working with the public (which has been all but one of my jobs- even that one was a hotel maid) the incentive was that you got to keep your job if you did well and didn't get to keep it
BUT, the bigger incentive isn't "keep your job", but it's to EARN a significant income (for someone working in that industry)....which I did as a server "back in the day".....so, with tips, i earned far more than the restaurant could have ever paid me (hourly)....I could have not been so attentive and not done quite as good on the job, and, while still "meeting the standards" of the restaurant, earned MUCH less.....but, I worked hard to excel, and was rewarded for it.
But, you're right...there are MANY jobs out "in the public" that you can have, and not have any incentive to do any more than what was "expected"....just the bare minimum to get by.
OR, if you have the initiative, you can CHOOSE to get a good tipping job, which, in the end, will likely pay much better than any "base pay" job you can find.....As a waiter, I certainly would not have wanted my pay to be limited to what the restaurant would pay me....
I would have likely gotten a job elsewhere....
However, if you got paid minimum wage in addition to tips, then how would it work out for you? The restaurants would pass the price of the higher wages on to the customers.... so in the long run, we'd be paying about the same. However, I think the servers would break even or come out ahead.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 7:34:46 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8766
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
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If restaurants paid servers full minimum wage I would bet that tips would drop to nothing
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 10:31:22 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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They do here in washington. At least 8.07 an hour.
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/30/2008 11:57:43 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
If restaurants paid servers full minimum wage I would bet that tips would drop to nothing
I'd still tip. But that's just me, I guess...
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/31/2008 1:02:35 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
They do here in Washington. At least 8.07 an hour.
G
How well do servers do in their tips?
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
If restaurants paid servers full minimum wage I would bet that tips would drop to nothing
I'd still tip. But that's just me, I guess...
Me too.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/31/2008 11:30:57 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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quote:
How well do servers do in their tips?
I have many friends who work as servers and all of them make it pretty well.
How would anyone know how much they made anyways for instance if they got paid minimum plus tips or tips and wage were a bit over minimum?
G
Btw According to the Federal Labor and industries sites many states are what they call non tip credit states, including California, Oregon, Nevada.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/tipped.htm
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/31/2008 11:36:37 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
How well do servers do in their tips?
I have many friends who work as servers and all of them make it pretty well.
How would anyone know how much they made anyways for instance if they got paid minimum plus tips or tips and wage were a bit over minimum?
G
BTW According to the Federal Labor and industries sites many states are what they call non tip credit states, including California, Oregon, Nevada.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/tipped.htm
So, if I read that right, CA is one of the states that requires the wait persons be paid at least min. wage? I haven't noticed the restaurants around here seriously lacking business.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 7/31/2008 9:42:45 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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quote:
o, if I read that right, CA is one of the states that requires the wait persons be paid at least min. wage? I haven't noticed the restaurants around here seriously lacking business.
that's correct!
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/2/2008 8:30:01 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
How many of you glance at Starbucks and don't even bother going there because their prices are way too high? So, why are they?.....the amount spent per employee, for a business in that industry, is one of a few reasons why they do charge more than most other places. Their profit margins are only slightly higher than the average for the industry....(high profit sales on their appliances, coffee mugs, music, account for that)......the other primary factor for the "sticker shock" is the amount they spend on "raw materials" is much higher than average....kind of like buying steaks for Ruths' Chris Steakhouse vs. "the Sizzler"......
Just a sidenote, according to Starbucks you don't go there for the coffee, you go there for "The Starbucks experience" instead. 
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/2/2008 8:36:02 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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Actually, wrong again! I go to the local shop owned by two guys I know.
And to keep this on topic, I tip them well. They usually ask me if I'm sure I want to do that. I say, "If I wasn't sure, you wouldn't have to ask."
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/2/2008 10:53:24 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 204
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
Status: offline
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rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/2/2008 11:20:55 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 204
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
Status: offline
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Actually my son is not a Christian, so "turning the other cheek" is likely irrelevant in his mind, even though he was taught that as a child. Yes we have taught our children that racism is an illogical response to behaviors.
However, please understand that in this type of vocation you are seeing HUGE numbers of people from many different cultural backgrounds, and here in Houston we are a melting pot, to say the least. In our household we have 2 children who are servers, so we have an even larger pool of examples. The tendencies are what they are in observing different cultures. You make assumptions about the preconceptions of servers regarding African Americans, but you are guessing. My children went into these jobs with no preconceived conclusions... at least that was not discussed when they started. Also, our children are biracial, so they are not coming at this issue from just one cultural perspective.
I will try to get my children to fight racism and approach people with undertanding and kindness, but I WILL NOT urge them to deny realities. That is not healthy either. If you deny realities you can't deal with them in a healthy way.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
My children struggle with their attitude towards different types of people because of this issue. There are definite patterns among diffeent cultures, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. Our son is saddened that it makes him more prone to racism, which we have always tried to teach against and not instill in our children.
I do hope that one thing that you are teaching your son is that racism is an illogical explanation for any form of behavior. As an African- American, I have received very bad service in restaurants at times because there is a tendancy to believe that "black folks don't tip". What those servers do not understand is that in almost every circumstance I tip 20% or more-even with mediocre or less than mediocre service. I try not to allow their ignorance to influence me-in other words, doing as Jesus commanded and turning the other cheek. If I did the same thing that they did-assume that because they are young and of a different culture than me they will give me bad service and treat them accordingly on the tip, would I be "unjustified" (especially since in most circumstances like that, it's what happens)? In the case of your child, I'm certain you would feel so. It's the same way about your son, if he is willing to make judgements based upon his past experiences, I don't know exactly how well he's turning that other cheek.
BTW, from what I've seen, apparently Christians are some of the worst tippers ever-apparently servers hate working Sunday mornings and afternoon. Does your son have a different attitude about Christians because of the experiences he has when he's served on Sundays? If he did, would you feel him to be justified in any way?
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 1:28:00 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
And how do you arrive at this conclusion? I've told them that their service is terrible. Should I have left a "decent" tip and thereby rewarded bad behavior? Or maybe I should have left nothing and let them think "What a lousy person"? Is it not better to try to teach someone that good service equates to good tips?
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Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 2:25:04 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
And how do you arrive at this conclusion? I've told them that their service is terrible. Should I have left a "decent" tip and thereby rewarded bad behavior? Or maybe I should have left nothing and let them think "What a lousy person"? Is it not better to try to teach someone that good service equates to good tips?
The best option IMO is to ask to speak to the manager. It's the manager's job to deal with bad service, not yours by withholding or controlling tips. I'm in agreement with Christian30...
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 4:53:14 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
And how do you arrive at this conclusion? I've told them that their service is terrible. Should I have left a "decent" tip and thereby rewarded bad behavior? Or maybe I should have left nothing and let them think "What a lousy person"? Is it not better to try to teach someone that good service equates to good tips?
The best option IMO is to ask to speak to the manager. It's the manager's job to deal with bad service, not yours by withholding or controlling tips. I'm in agreement with Christian30...
Are yo saying I should have left a tip?
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Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 7:46:44 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
And how do you arrive at this conclusion? I've told them that their service is terrible. Should I have left a "decent" tip and thereby rewarded bad behavior? Or maybe I should have left nothing and let them think "What a lousy person"? Is it not better to try to teach someone that good service equates to good tips?
The best option IMO is to ask to speak to the manager. It's the manager's job to deal with bad service, not yours by withholding or controlling tips. I'm in agreement with Christian30...
Are yo saying I should have left a tip?
I'm saying that if there was bad service, you holding back the tip or giving $.01 is arrogant to say the least. If there's bad service, take it up with the manager. Don't give a tip like that to send the message.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 8:27:33 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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quote:
t's the manager's job to deal with bad service, not yours by withholding or controlling tips.
That's incorrect. A tip pays for the service based on what you percieve the service is. If you don't think they deserve a tip then don't tip. That's your right. A tip is above and beyond.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 8:40:45 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
t's the manager's job to deal with bad service, not yours by withholding or controlling tips.
That's incorrect. A tip pays for the service based on what you percieve the service is. If you don't think they deserve a tip then don't tip. That's your right. A tip is above and beyond.
G
There's a difference between no tip and a $.01 tip because the service wasn't "worth $.02". Read the context please.
ETA: Most of the time in my experience a bad tip or no tip only angers the server who will most likely say, "I gave good service!" A report to the manager can't be misconstrued.
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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