RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (Full Version)

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humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/19/2008 7:51:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhippie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Christian30


Please be aware that servers do NOT get minimum wage to augment tipping. It is usually closer to $2 per hour. The job is often high stress, with a learning curve and training that is usually unpaid. I'm disappointed that so many people do not respect restaurant culture as it has been established in the U.S.


I'm not sure what State you're from but up here in Maine the wait staff have to make at least minimum wage with the tip factored in. They are paid something like $2.36 per hour and are supposed to report their tips to their boss who then has to verify that they make at least the required minimum of $7.25/hr. If they do not the employer is responsible for making up the difference.


Yes, that is true here in Massachusetts too, however the downside to that is if the employer has to make up the difference, then they think that you are not working and thus be let go instead.[8|]


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhippie

quote:

ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit


I have heard that you should always leave a tip, even a bad one. If the service is bad then they will surely get the message. If you don't leave any at all, then they might think that they forgot also.




When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02


Now, they would surely get the point then! I have only had a handful of times where I had what would be considered either poor or dreadful service. There is one time that I remember from over 15 years ago that still sticks with me to this very day!



Karaboo2 -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/19/2008 9:40:57 PM)

Here in Ontario, the labour laws say that minimum wage for wait staff cannot be lower than $1 below standard minimim wage. (ie. If minimum wage provincially is $8.50, wait staff cannot be paid anything less than $7.50, and that is BEFORE tips)



woodsandfield -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/20/2008 8:09:59 AM)

quote:


But I also know enough that not treating your server like **** also will increase the liklihood of good service--and yes, the rumours are true--people in the kitchen do sometimes do stuff to rude people's food.


As I was a server when I was younger, I empathize with servers.
I am polite, patient within reason, friendly, try to remember people
get tired on their feet and I tip too well.
I believe I said all this on a previous post.
Okay, that said, if , say, fish is half cooked, I'll send it back.
I've seen the " caught on tape" videos where people have spit, etc. in the food and drinks of customers.
We can't trust that every customer abused by servers or the cooks
" deserved" such behaviour from the wait staff and cooks in kitchen, now can we?
Not from the outrageous " caught on tape " videos, which it appears that the waitstaff and cooks demonstrate scumbag behaviour , LOL.
I have cut way back on eating out and saved a ton of money on food and tips. My food is better prepared, I'm not about to doctor my food and actually, I perfer going home and whipping up something to eating in a resturant now.



rhippie -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/20/2008 6:12:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: woodsandfield

quote:


But I also know enough that not treating your server like **** also will increase the liklihood of good service--and yes, the rumours are true--people in the kitchen do sometimes do stuff to rude people's food.


As I was a server when I was younger, I empathize with servers.
I am polite, patient within reason, friendly, try to remember people
get tired on their feet and I tip too well.
I believe I said all this on a previous post.
Okay, that said, if , say, fish is half cooked, I'll send it back.
I've seen the " caught on tape" videos where people have spit, etc. in the food and drinks of customers.
We can't trust that every customer abused by servers or the cooks
" deserved" such behaviour from the wait staff and cooks in kitchen, now can we?
Not from the outrageous " caught on tape " videos, which it appears that the waitstaff and cooks demonstrate scumbag behaviour , LOL.
I have cut way back on eating out and saved a ton of money on food and tips. My food is better prepared, I'm not about to doctor my food and actually, I perfer going home and whipping up something to eating in a resturant now.


After having heard the horror stories from wait staff that I know personally I have made it a habit of not sending back food that is not prepared to my specs. I simply tell the wait staff that I didn't order the food the way it was served and I do not want it returned to the kitchen not do I intend to eat it. I will also not pay for it and I ask to speak to the manager if that causes a problem. I will not allow poor cooking to have an impact on the amount of tip I leave the staff however. I calculate the tip as if the food had been served as ordered because it is not the wait staff's fault the cook can't follow directions.



PureOath -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/20/2008 6:43:42 PM)

I consider 15% a tipping standard.

If I get exceptional service, friendly banter, extra attention - I'll tip 30% or above.

If I get above average service it's in the 16 - 20% range.

If the service is standard - I tip the standard 15%.

If the service is substandard - so is the tip.

Substandard means, I have to ask repeatedly for a glass of water or a refill and never get it. Or have to ask more than once - with another problem occurring to make me think th at it's the server's inattentiveness that's the problem. Tips are for service.

I generally don't adjust my tip per food quality. The food cost is figured into the rest of the bill. If the food is substandard, and there is no way to fix it, I usually won't return to the restaurant. If it's "fly in my soup" substandard, (only happened once) I will politely ask for a manager and then explain why I don't want to pay for the meal.

Any good restaurant manager should go out of their way to ensure you have a pleasurable dining experience. Otherwise you'll dissuade your colleagues, friends, and relatives from patronizing it.



woodsandfield -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/20/2008 9:28:26 PM)

quote:

After having heard the horror stories from wait staff that I know personally I have made it a habit of not sending back food that is not prepared to my specs. I simply tell the wait staff that I didn't order the food the way it was served and I do not want it returned to the kitchen not do I intend to eat it. I will also not pay for it and I ask to speak to the manager if that causes a problem. I will not allow poor cooking to have an impact on the amount of tip I leave the staff however. I calculate the tip as if the food had been served as ordered because it is not the wait staff's fault the cook can't follow directions.


I agree that would be the best way.
But you understand, no matter how you do it ; they've got your number and now you're a *** problem customer***. LOL
Hey, I remember when businesses had the motto ; the customer is always right.
Wow, does that take me back it seems a 100 years, okay, 30 at least!
Now a tip is called an " entitlement" and the customer is always quilty until proven innocent.
P.S. you can leave a 50% tip if you want but got news for you, the spit is already in the food by the time the tip is given. [:D]

This reminds me of a man that sued an eating establishment for spitting in his food. ( true story, it was in the local newspaper )
The server was smiling and talking to the man before he spit in the food, and of course denied that he did so.
He was fired from the job and he also was found quilty ( I can't remember the punishment but it was hefty ) .
The eating establishment's business fell off to about zero and finally went out of business.



blue1914 -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/20/2008 10:55:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Christian30

My children struggle with their attitude towards different types of people because of this issue. There are definite patterns among diffeent cultures, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. Our son is saddened that it makes him more prone to racism, which we have always tried to teach against and not instill in our children.


I do hope that one thing that you are teaching your son is that racism is an illogical explanation for any form of behavior. As an African- American, I have received very bad service in restaurants at times because there is a tendancy to believe that "black folks don't tip". What those servers do not understand is that in almost every circumstance I tip 20% or more-even with mediocre or less than mediocre service. I try not to allow their ignorance to influence me-in other words, doing as Jesus commanded and turning the other cheek. If I did the same thing that they did-assume that because they are young and of a different culture than me they will give me bad service and treat them accordingly on the tip, would I be "unjustified" (especially since in most circumstances like that, it's what happens)? In the case of your child, I'm certain you would feel so. It's the same way about your son, if he is willing to make judgements based upon his past experiences, I don't know exactly how well he's turning that other cheek.

BTW, from what I've seen, apparently Christians are some of the worst tippers ever-apparently servers hate working Sunday mornings and afternoon. Does your son have a different attitude about Christians because of the experiences he has when he's served on Sundays? If he did, would you feel him to be justified in any way?



woodsandfield -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/21/2008 6:50:03 AM)

quote:

I generally don't adjust my tip per food quality. The food cost is figured into the rest of the bill. If the food is substandard, and there is no way to fix it, I usually won't return to the restaurant.


I agree with you 100% but you said, " and there is no way to fix it,"
After reading these posts, I am convinced no one can be too paranoid in a restaurant!!
I believe that " fixing" a order gone bad would not include sending it back to the kitchen. Since as one poster implies that " rude " customers get treated badly.
Rude is a relative term and probably includes customers that send their food back to be " fixed".
The OP says that tips are " entitlements", so if tips are now "entitlements"
customers need to be on their best behaviour. [8|]



deliveredarling -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/21/2008 8:16:39 AM)

quote:



Has anyone ever had any experience in improving this situation? Is there any way to better inform society of their responsibility in this area? I'm just not sure.


I am posting blind here, haven't read all the other posts.

I was a restaurant manager for thirteen years. part of my responsibilities were training the servers.

There are three types of servers:
1. New- never served before, don't know the ends and outs
2. Greedy, only there for the money and are often table hogs giving very poor service. trying to make more in volume than true service.
3. Seasoned-those who do it because it is a joy to serve others. they know the meaning of service and make very, very good money.

These servers are in every full service restaurant. In training, I would teach them the perils of service. I often let them suffer the consequences of their poor service, especially the greedy ones, by reducing their stations and limiting their schedules. Nothing irritated me more than to hear about a guest receiving poor service. rarely is there ever a good excuse for that.

Tipping, IMHO, should not be a mandatory thing, unless there is a large party, meaning over 8.

A new server needs some slack cut to them, they are learning. Besides that-weren't any of you ever new in your jobs?

greedy servers do not provide excellent service. They just don't. They are focused on themselves in an industry that focuses on the service towards others. Go figure that they don't get that!

seasoned servers deserve every bit of money they receive. Your experience was pleasant and met expectation.

If the service in any restaurant is terrible, speak with the manager on duty. it's their job to correct whatever is wrong. They want to know! it's very difficult for a manger to be in all places at all times, so information is necessary for further improvement.

Are there really cultural differences in tipping?
Yes, there are. This is a very generalized rule though. It doesn't apply to all of a particular race. So, basing service on a generalized rule reinforces that tipping is cultural. Meaning that if you serve a family of a particular race with a poor ti in mind because of their race, your service is mediocre and they will not tip well or at all.
Take that for all people you serve and you get the same result. Serving others with prejudice shows and ends up taking money out of the servers pockets.

Most people are very uneducated about tipping. They do not understand that a servers job is difficult and stressful. People want things for nothing a sometimes intentionally make an experience a poor one so they can eat for free and NOT tip. it goes with the territory and is no different that any other service oriented business.

The service industry should be a class covered in schools to educate the public on what is appropriate and what is not.
Tips are people's lively hood and that should be kept in mind for all who like to eat out.

It's always been said in the restaurant, if you can't afford to tip-don't eat out.



deliveredarling -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/21/2008 8:26:04 AM)

quote:

I will not allow poor cooking to have an impact on the amount of tip I leave the staff however. I calculate the tip as if the food had been served as ordered because it is not the wait staff's fault the cook can't follow directions.



Uuum, don't let the server baffle you with bull. Of the kitchens that I have run, it generally is not the kitchen's fault. The server put the order in wrong and it's much easier to blame the kitchen than to tell the guest they screwed up the order.

In thirteen years, I have never seen a server return with food and they do something awful to it-Never.

I saw that movie called Waiting and was horrified that they gave the public such a terrible view of the industry. It's just not like that in reality.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 12:37:22 AM)

quote:

There are three types of servers:
1. New- never served before, don't know the ends and outs
2. Greedy, only there for the money and are often table hogs giving very poor service. trying to make more in volume than true service.
3. Seasoned-those who do it because it is a joy to serve others. they know the meaning of service and make very, very good money.


Now what about the 4th option, the server who just provides horrible service instead?



deliveredarling -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 6:38:13 PM)

quote:



Now what about the 4th option, the server who just provides horrible service instead?


No longer there because I would have already fired them![:D]



humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 6:49:58 PM)

But its just that I do experience that about 15% of the time, no pun intended.



deliveredarling -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 7:06:08 PM)

quote:



If the service in any restaurant is terrible, speak with the manager on duty. it's their job to correct whatever is wrong. They want to know! it's very difficult for a manger to be in all places at all times, so information is necessary for further improvement.


This truly is your best remedy for poor service. it won't improve if the management doesn't know there is a problem with their wait staff or kitchen, should the quality be below standards.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 7:18:42 PM)

Ok thanks!



ladioffaith -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 9:42:36 PM)

Bad tippers should be sentenced to work at a restaurant for a couple of weeks to see how the other half lives.

I worked at restuarants for a long time as a cashier and heard horror stories ... mostly from co-workers complaining about CHRISTIANS. "They think they're still in church and give 10 percent."

This was a very poor witness, especially when they left a tract along with their insuting tip.

When service is poor, really poor, I still tip 10 percent. Know why? Because often, that server is taxed on an assumed tip of about that much. No matter how poorly she did her job, why should she pay income tax on income she did not receive?

Also, often servers are punished for things beyond their control. If you are upset with the quality of your food, it's the cook's fault, not the server's.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/22/2008 9:46:01 PM)

But its not usually the food that bothers me, it is where in the world did the server go type of thing instead.



Bridgitt -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/28/2008 2:19:41 PM)

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.



rhippie -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/28/2008 3:18:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladioffaith


When service is poor, really poor, I still tip 10 percent. Know why? Because often, that server is taxed on an assumed tip of about that much. No matter how poorly she did her job, why should she pay income tax on income she did not receive?



Why should they receive income/payment for doing a poor job?



Roberta_ -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/28/2008 11:47:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgitt

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


I think it would make it easier if restaurants just paid their employees full wages like other companies do.



Bridgitt -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/29/2008 2:27:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgitt

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


I think it would make it easier if restaurants just paid their employees full wages like other companies do.


True true.



ladioffaith -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/29/2008 4:39:43 PM)

quote:

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


Many eateries do this, with larger parties. Kind of irks me. Often, I was going to tip 20 percent before seeing that 15 percent was added in!



humbleinspirit -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/29/2008 11:51:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladioffaith

quote:

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


Many eateries do this, with larger parties. Kind of irks me. Often, I was going to tip 20 percent before seeing that 15 percent was added in!


And usually it is 18% instead. Remember when we were at the GT a few years back and we ate at that restaurant? When I heard that 18% had been already added in I just thought "ok, 18% it is! (not more)"



kernsfamily -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/30/2008 9:04:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladioffaith

quote:

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


Many eateries do this, with larger parties. Kind of irks me. Often, I was going to tip 20 percent before seeing that 15 percent was added in!


All restaurants I have been to, when with a larger party, let you know that while the tip was added into the bill, it is done so at YOUR discretion....and you are free to raise or lower the tip.....

At one place we go to more often than not with large parties, the manager makes a point of coming over and explaining the policy....primarily to let us know that we are free to lower/raise it.



kernsfamily -> RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants (7/30/2008 9:20:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgitt

It would make it easier if, just like taxes, the tip was included in the bill.


I think it would make it easier if restaurants just paid their employees full wages like other companies do.


I thought that way too...when I was a server. Then I did the math.

Restaurants, for the most part, are a "low margin" business....

and, it would have been impossible for the restaurant to pay all it's servers the amount of money i earned when combining my tips/payroll......and remain competitive.....

what would happen if I knew that no matter what I did while serving my customers, that I would get just as much as everyone else working there.....the incentive to be "the best" and excel is taken away.......just go to a fine clothing store whose employees pay is at least partially based on commission.....they'll do ANYTHING for you....the service is beyond compare.....

Starbucks is an excellent example of this (what happens when you pay employees full salaries/benefits). For a business that is in the "service industry", Starbucks pays it's employees VERY well, as well as offering it's employees some of the best benefits in the "service industry".....as a result, in the end, someone has to pay for it. (I know they typically have a "tip jar", but that's a bit different).............How many of you glance at Starbucks and don't even bother going there because their prices are way too high? So, why are they?.....the amount spent per employee, for a business in that industry, is one of a few reasons why they do charge more than most other places. Their profit margins are only slightly higher than the average for the industry....(high profit sales on their appliances, coffee mugs, music, account for that)......the other primary factor for the "sticker shock" is the amount they spend on "raw materials" is much higher than average....kind of like buying steaks for Ruths' Chris Steakhouse vs. "the Sizzler"......



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