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SwordLady -> RE: What will they do when all of the children... (9/26/2008 5:25:57 AM)
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It seems like there is more than one issue I will need to reply on. I think we should focus on what the scripture says, as we as humans can easily read scripture wrong. We should also becareful and take note of who the Lord is talking about within a certain scripture, confirm scripture with scripture. We should pray and ask the Lord to show us and lead us into the correct path, the correct replies. That said...
(cwb, please note that I am not trying to hi-jack your thread, I am just trying to comment on everything mentioned to the best of my ability. In order to reply your original question, it seems like I will have to reply to the others first)
1. Is there a rapture?
2. Will kids be raptured if there is a rapture?
3. What happens to the kids who are not raptured, that is if not all the kids are raptured?
1. Will there be a rapture?
quote:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, ...
I like this quote which was quoted earlier in this thread. We must be careful of not reading what we want to read, but reading what was in fact said. We must allow the Holy Spirit to lead us. The best way to understand one scripture is to confirm it with another.
This scripture mentions that something/someone is withholding the Wicked (verse 8) of being reveiled. I think this is clear enough. We will need to see who/what is withholding and who is going to be revealed.
quote:
FurGodWurLivin said:
When do we see God actively restraining something?
It does not say that God is the one doing the restraining. It says, and I requote:
quote:
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, ...
It says we know? So it must be written somewhere who is withholding the Wicked (verse 8) of being revealed. It does not mention in this scripture what/who is "restraining/withholding". So I think it is safe to suggest we look at another scripture?
quote:
Matthew 24:36-44
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[a] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
quote:
FurGodWurLivin sais:
Notice also the context in which Jesus uses the term "taken". The people taken away by the flood were the people who didn't believe there was a flood coming that were going about their daily lives and suddenly they were killed. Then Jesus uses the same type of wording to talk about those grinding in a millstone or out in a field... one is "taken" and the other is left. Based on that verse and the usage of the "carcass... eagle" refference, it is a pretty safe bet that you don't want to be "taken".
I do not think we can use the context in which Jesus used the term "taken" in the various scriptures as being the same. He is not using the same "example". Besides, Noah was "taken" and SAVED! In the days of Lot, Lot was also "taken" and SAVED! What were they saved from? God's wrath? This means that I sure do want to be "taken", do you not? Read those scripture and if it is not God's wrath, please provide scripture stating that it was not God's wrath which they were saved from. The tribulation is "God's wrath" which He once again will poor out onto the earth, or am I seeing this wrong? (please provide scripture if I am). Verse 39 is referring to those who drowned in the flood and NOT Noah and his family who were saved. Read it again.
quote:
Read:
1 Thessalonians 5
The Day of the Lord
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
Verse 2: The day comes as a thief in the night (for those who do not watch and those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ)
Verse 4: This day will NOT overtake us as a thief (could this mean that the Lord has given enough information in His Word, the Bible, to show us what will happen?)
Verse 6: Let us watch and be sober (so that it does NOT come as a thief)
Verse 9: God did NOT appoint us to wrath? (Noah was SAVED and Lot was SAVED? They did not enter God's wrath)
Read this:
quote:
Revelation 3
The Dead Church
1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.[a] 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
Verse 1: This is what was said to the "dead church". I am sure that the Lord is referring to this church being spiritually dead and not physically dead, as in verse 3 He asked them to repent.
Verse 2: Again it said that we must watch!
Verse 3: If we do not watch, He will come as a thief in the night and will not know the hour.
I have tried to show that those who believes and watch, will NOT be caught off guard. There are plenty of signs which the Lord will show us which we will have to WATCH out for. However, I am not sure if I have as yet convinced you that there is a rapture (this is how I read and understand the Word).
You should find this interestig:
quote:
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Now I requote:
quote:
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, ...
I am sure that it is now safe to say that before the antichrist (the wicked in verse 8) those who believed and watched must be taken away first. Noah was safe in the ark when the rain hit and Lot was out of the city when the fire hit. Noah and Lot were "removed" or "taken" before God's wrath.
Does this mean that we will be raptured? I will allow anybody who does not believe so, to provide scripture to proof otherwise. Please do NOT address how/when/where/etc the rapture will take place here, as this is NOT the appropriate thread, I only wanted to get past one concern before getting to the original question.
2. Will kids be raptured? & 3. What happens to the kids who are not raptured, that is if not all the kids are raptured?
quote:
Luke 23:27-30
27 And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’
CWB: I am going off in about half an hour and will only be back on Monday. I am looking into your question and trying to find whatever scripture I can regarding your question. However, this scripture makes me believe that not all the children will be taken with the rapture. I will do some more reading and continue this. I would not like to make a comment with only one scripture.
I think I have given quite a bit to think about and can not wait to see the replies. I am only asking one thing, this is, please do not reply immediately after you read this. Wait a while, think about what you have read and maybe even read some scripture. If you think I am on the wrong track, please do say so, however, I would like you to provide scripture stating same. I would not like to be left behind.
Have a lovely weekend everyone!!! [;)]
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