quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What about the wise men who came offering gifts at Jesus birth, they were there by faith in seeing a new star in the sky and they followed it to Jerusalem. Were these wise men saved or no, if they were saved they were not of Israel but of other nations and they were saved by their faith the same as all men are saved from the beginning of time till now by faith alone. I like to assume that these wise men were elderly and that some of them died before Christ's death on the cross (but I do not know for sure) so if they were saved it was by their faith and they did not join to Israel.

To say that during the time of the law someone would have to join themselves to Israel to be saved is ridiculous that would of made the whole earth almost unsaveable and I believe there were many people of faith all over the earth as we see there were at least some that brought gifts to Jesus birth. If faith alone was not enough that would mean the whole earth practically was destined to hell at the time before Jesus birth and our God is more marvolus then that I'm sure he had revealed to others his deity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What about the wise men who came offering gifts at Jesus birth, they were there by faith in seeing a new star in the sky and they followed it to Jerusalem. Were these wise men saved or no, if they were saved they were not of Israel but of other nations and they were saved by their faith the same as all men are saved from the beginning of time till now by faith alone. I like to assume that these wise men were elderly and that some of them died before Christ's death on the cross (but I do not know for sure) so if they were saved it was by their faith and they did not join to Israel.

To say that during the time of the law someone would have to join themselves to Israel to be saved is ridiculous that would of made the whole earth almost unsaveable and I believe there were many people of faith all over the earth as we see there were at least some that brought gifts to Jesus birth. If faith alone was not enough that would mean the whole earth practically was destined to hell at the time before Jesus birth and our God is more marvolus then that I'm sure he had revealed to others his deity.

Dave writes: So you are saying that American Indians, Australian Aboriginies and Polynesians who died prior to 33 AD could have been saved but those who died 34 AD and later could not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What about the wise men who came offering gifts at Jesus birth, they were there by faith in seeing a new star in the sky and they followed it to Jerusalem. Were these wise men saved or no, if they were saved they were not of Israel but of other nations and they were saved by their faith the same as all men are saved from the beginning of time till now by faith alone. I like to assume that these wise men were elderly and that some of them died before Christ's death on the cross (but I do not know for sure) so if they were saved it was by their faith and they did not join to Israel.

To say that during the time of the law someone would have to join themselves to Israel to be saved is ridiculous that would of made the whole earth almost unsaveable and I believe there were many people of faith all over the earth as we see there were at least some that brought gifts to Jesus birth. If faith alone was not enough that would mean the whole earth practically was destined to hell at the time before Jesus birth and our God is more marvolus then that I'm sure he had revealed to others his deity.

So you are saying that American Indians, Australian Aboriginies and Polynesians who died prior to 33 AD could have been saved but those who died 34 AD and later could not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: drfuss

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What about the wise men who came offering gifts at Jesus birth, they were there by faith in seeing a new star in the sky and they followed it to Jerusalem. Were these wise men saved or no, if they were saved they were not of Israel but of other nations and they were saved by their faith the same as all men are saved from the beginning of time till now by faith alone. I like to assume that these wise men were elderly and that some of them died before Christ's death on the cross (but I do not know for sure) so if they were saved it was by their faith and they did not join to Israel.

To say that during the time of the law someone would have to join themselves to Israel to be saved is ridiculous that would of made the whole earth almost unsaveable and I believe there were many people of faith all over the earth as we see there were at least some that brought gifts to Jesus birth. If faith alone was not enough that would mean the whole earth practically was destined to hell at the time before Jesus birth and our God is more marvolus then that I'm sure he had revealed to others his deity.

Dave writes: So you are saying that American Indians, Australian Aboriginies and Polynesians who died prior to 33 AD could have been saved but those who died 34 AD and later could not?

drfuss: An interesting point, Dave. I had not thought of it that way.

I thought as Whisperingwaters does until I made a study on God's Chosen People and came across the scriptures listed in my posts #51 & #52. Note that some of those scriptures are New Testament scriptures, so they are not just for Jewish consumption.

Hopefully, someone can convince me by scripture, not just rationale, that Gentiles not connected with Isreal could be saved during the time the law was in effect. I would be more comfortable with that position than the one I have posted here.

BTW, the wise men became connected with Isreal by coming to the birth of Christ. Maybe that was God's way of bringing those Gentiles in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What happened at Jesus death on the cross it says that the temple curtain was split down the middle and that people rose from the dead I believe this happened all over the earth and they were witnesses of Christ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

quote:

ORIGINAL: drfuss

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What about the wise men who came offering gifts at Jesus birth, they were there by faith in seeing a new star in the sky and they followed it to Jerusalem. Were these wise men saved or no, if they were saved they were not of Israel but of other nations and they were saved by their faith the same as all men are saved from the beginning of time till now by faith alone. I like to assume that these wise men were elderly and that some of them died before Christ's death on the cross (but I do not know for sure) so if they were saved it was by their faith and they did not join to Israel.

To say that during the time of the law someone would have to join themselves to Israel to be saved is ridiculous that would of made the whole earth almost unsaveable and I believe there were many people of faith all over the earth as we see there were at least some that brought gifts to Jesus birth. If faith alone was not enough that would mean the whole earth practically was destined to hell at the time before Jesus birth and our God is more marvolus then that I'm sure he had revealed to others his deity.

Dave writes: So you are saying that American Indians, Australian Aboriginies and Polynesians who died prior to 33 AD could have been saved but those who died 34 AD and later could not?

drfuss: An interesting point, Dave. I had not thought of it that way.

I thought as Whisperingwaters does until I made a study on God's Chosen People and came across the scriptures listed in my posts #51 & #52. Note that some of those scriptures are New Testament scriptures, so they are not just for Jewish consumption.

Hopefully, someone can convince me by scripture, not just rationale, that Gentiles not connected with Isreal could be saved during the time the law was in effect. I would be more comfortable with that position than the one I have posted here.

BTW, the wise men became connected with Isreal by coming to the birth of Christ. Maybe that was God's way of bringing those Gentiles in.

Just because the wise men came to Christ's birth does not make them connected to Israel remember they went home they just passed through that country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

Just because the wise men came to Christ's birth does not make them connected to Israel remember they went home they just passed through that country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What happened at Jesus death on the cross it says that the temple curtain was split down the middle and that people rose from the dead I believe this happened all over the earth and they were witnesses of Christ.

References please???

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

What happened at Jesus death on the cross it says that the temple curtain was split down the middle and that people rose from the dead I believe this happened all over the earth and they were witnesses of Christ.

References please???

Matt 27:45-56


Now this verse doesn't say there were people all over the earth that rose but saints that went into Jeruselem it is just my personal belief. That doesn't change any thing though our God is powerful enough to be a witness over the whole earth when there is no witness.