Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (Full Version)

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lmarchal -> Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/24/2008 11:06:54 PM)

There are 4 questions that man ask himself. and There are:

Where am I ?

Who am I?

What is my purposes?

Where am i going after this life?



ta_mosquito -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/24/2008 11:17:30 PM)

I don't understand how what you wrote relates to your thread title. Care to elaborate?



lmarchal -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/24/2008 11:28:34 PM)

I found that you can be saved, meaning beleiving that Jesus Christ is the Son of God died for Sin, According to Romain 8:8-10. But also been Lost, when you do not understand where you are, or knowing Who you are, or What is your purpose. These are the Questions we all ask ourself with time.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/25/2008 12:26:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmarchal
There are 4 questions that man ask himself. and There are:
Where am I ? Who am I? What is my purposes? Where am i going after this life? I found that you can be saved, meaning beleiving that Jesus Christ is the Son of God died for Sin, According to Romain 8:8-10. But also been Lost, when you do not understand where you are, or knowing Who you are, or What is your purpose. These are the Questions we all ask ourself with time.

Hi Lmarchal,
I removed some spacing in your posts to try to get all this on the screen at one time.
Your four questions- are you suggesting that they are the foundation of every decision made in life? And the foundation for who? Anyone and everyone, or a Christian, or who?

Being saved by Jesus, to me, means that I accept His grace by faith (as you say, belief that He is and that He did die and rise again)- yet I take it much more personally, because that included MY SIN. He didn't die for sin. He died for me, taking on punishment for me.

You can hear words in the hymn Amazing Grace that state "I once was lost... but now am found...". That saving act of God's grace through the actions of His son Jesus, to me, is a definitive moment, and there's nothing I can do to unsave myself, nor can anyone else undo that. Being lost in regards to being saved is much more different than not knowing where you are after a few unfortunate turns, or missing the trail marker when hiking and unknowingly blazing a trail not travelled by. I count being lost in that case- not as in God doesn't know where you are- but that the lost person is burdened down with their own sin, and lost to knowing the love of God for them.

Please share some more about these four questions you talk about. I'd like to hear more about how you think they relate to spiritual matters.

OneJohn410



KnowJesus -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/25/2008 1:19:23 AM)

Hi Imarchal...I'm trying to clarify what you're telling us. I'll start with your topic question: "Can you be saved and be Lost at the same time?"........... NO..if you mean you can go to hell while you have salvation in Christ Jesus.

BUT if we are a new Christian (by faith received Christ) and never followed through with reading the Bible, worshipping with fellow Christians and being mentored by mature believers, then we might be ignorant of the hope of our salvation. (meaning where do I go from here?)............This is one reason for Sunday Schools or Bible Studies to help babes in Christ learn more about the Word of God............................ If there is NO desire or hunger present to know more about God, then I would question the sincerity of ones faith in believing and receiving HIM. Was it genuine faith?

If we have the Spirit of God in us...we have life and desire the things of God.



lmarchal -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/25/2008 7:21:11 AM)

Hello OneJohn410, KnowJesus

When we look at the definition of "been saved" in the Natural, (for we know what is true in the natural is also true in the spiritual, and what is true in the spiritual is also true in the nature.) It’s to be Deliver from. For we understand that we are deliver from the hands of the enemies, or from destruction, and brought it to the Kingdom of our Lord and savior. The Only wait to lose our SALVATION is stopping believing (Faith). For the scripture said:
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In other end " Been lost" has to do with your Location(where you are in Christ). The purpose of writing such topics is to encourage believer that it is ok to feel sense of been lost even thou we have faith in God.
The Lord is requiring more of you to come higher in him.



DaveW -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/27/2008 12:56:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmarchal

I found that you can be saved, meaning beleiving that Jesus Christ is the Son of God died for Sin, According to Romain 8:8-10. But also been Lost, when you do not understand where you are, or knowing Who you are, or What is your purpose.
You are using 2 different sets of definitions here, the first evangelical and the second majority cultural.

Are you trying to highlight the different venaculars or trying to be clever in making your point?



SinnerSaved -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/27/2008 1:17:51 PM)

Can you be saved and lost at the same time? No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmarchal

There are 4 questions that man ask himself. and There are:

Where am I ?

Who am I?

What is my purposes?

Where am i going after this life?


I disagree that there are 4 questions - there is only 1 essential question. Jesus asked Simon Peter (and every single one of us: "But whom say ye that I am?"

If, Like Peter, we are able to answer "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" then your 4 questions will be answered.



slushie -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/27/2008 1:22:06 PM)

No you cannot be saved and lost at the same time. Your purpose is to do God's will. When you know what Christ has done for you and what he's doing in your life, then how can you not know where you are and what you're supposed to do?



tsnody2001 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/27/2008 3:29:04 PM)

I think what Imarchal is trying to say (please correct me if I'm wrong, Imarchal) is that a believer in Christ (also a member of His body) can be a member without knowing where on the body they are. For example, I was a believer for a year or two before I began to understanding exactly how the body of Christ was to function, then shortly after (after studying gifts of the Spirit), began to be able to know what MY function in the body was. If that is what you mean, then, yes, every believer goes through some extent of that. Even Paul, when he was converted, went back to Arabia for THREE years to study the Scriptures and to soak in what God's mission for him was (Acts 9:30, 11:25-26; Gal. 1:13-24).



breaking_stagnancy -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/28/2008 7:51:19 PM)

Hey Immarchal, I believe I know where you're coming from. As far as being saved is concerned, that interpretation differs as much as Christianity's denominations. One thing is true, though, it's not possible for someone that truly follows Christ to be condemned. That being said, saying that you're following Christ and actually doing it is where people get confused. If simply saying that you are saved was enough, then the entire book of James would be pointless.

quote:

Where am I ?

Being saved is not a singular action. It's a life long commitment. It's saying that you have made the decision to begin your race. To be saved is a conscious decision to follow Christ. To follow something, anything requires constant movement. If you go through all the motions of being saved, but forget to follow through with the definition of it in following Christ, then the words and the actions of being saved are little more than an act. So to answer the first question, if you have been saved, then "where you are" is at the starting line, not the finish line.

quote:

Who am I?

Who you are is a creature that is cursed with the body of an animals but blessed with the spirit of the angels. Humans are torn between two worlds. The animal world is what is physical. We have taste, sight, touch, smell and sound to experience things the angels never could. The only downside is that with this natural beauty comes pain, disease and death. The spiritual world is what's in you that makes you smile at a sunset or sees faces in the clouds. Everything that has no place in natural instinct or evolution, such as music or higher mathematics is signs of this spiritual world. You are something great that God has put here to experience His beauty in both worlds, but called to eventually join Him in His.

quote:

What is my purposes?

Everyone's purpose in life is to draw closer to God. This is done by constantly pursuing Him. In pursuing God, we allow our spiritual side to grow while suppressing our animal sides. Giving into the animal side is human nature, but it is in human nature where temptation and sin can tie us down. To suppress the animal side of ourselves is to have control over it. To let the animal side of ourselves suppress us means that we are a slave to it. That's how lent and fasting come into play, because the whole point of them is to show God and ourselves that we are not slaves to our body, that we won't eat just because our stomach feels hungry, that we won't lust just because we see someone attractive, etc. This is why being saved holds so much weight, because Christ lived a perfect life of suppressing temptation and pursuing God. So following Christ's life will all but save you from condemnation...but that's for God to decide, not me.
quote:


Where am i going after this life?

Where you are going after this life is completely your decision. If you don't believe there is anything waiting for you, then you've already decided that you're going to die and decompose like everything else on this earth. If you believe that there is something higher than this world, something beyond the senses, then you must believe that there is something that rules that world. From there you can either choose to follow that Ultimate Ruler, or you can choose not to. I can't tell you what to believe. All I can say is that if you feel the pull, find out where it's coming from. Those questions are proof that something is tugging at you. I assure you that if you seek them out with all of your heart, you'll find what you're looking for. Don't get discouraged by not knowing the answer, because it's the questions that provoke movement and encourage knowledge.



SinnerSaved -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 3:44:49 AM)

^
^
^
Wonderful Post breaking_stagnancy!



tsnody2001 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 10:45:06 AM)

quote:

Who you are is a creature with the body of an animals but blessed with the spirit of the angels
I BEG to differ, my friend! We are human beings created in the image of God Almighty, not animals. We did not EVOLVE (macro), and believers are blessed with the Holy Spirit from GOD, NOT with the spirit of angels. If you're not going to take the time to quote Scripture, PLEASE at least make sure your posts are supported by Scripture. Thank you.



breaking_stagnancy -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 2:49:33 PM)

tsnody2001,

I'm not really sure how this argument is intended to help Immarchal, in fact I can see how it could be more of a deterrent, but i will oblige none-the-less. I will touch on the topic of scripture and then the topic of Angels, Breath of God, Animals, etc.

The reason I didn't reference scripture when referring to the creation of the angels is because their creation is not in the scripture. Since there is no scripture that says that God created them, do you doubt their existence? Scripture is something that is meant to be understood more than memorized. To be able to quote something word for word and know exactly which page it is found on, which book, which verse is a great feat of diligence, but it does not prove that the meaning of what is memorized has been understood. For example, you could memorize that 2 x 3 = 6 and when asked if you know multiplication, you could quote that reference...but it wouldn't mean that you understand multiplication. Rephrasing 2 x 3 = 6 as "you take the three and you multiply it twice over itself which totals to six" is not quoting it word for word, but it shows understanding and while preserving it's truth.

The Bible was not assigned verses until the 16th century AD. That being so, before then, people just referenced the Bible as Jesus did by simply saying "it is written" (Mark 14:27) and that was all that needed to be said. God's word is intended to be stored in our hearts, not in our heads (Deut. 6:6, Ps. 119:11). Jesus is even called out for a lack of studying the Scripture(John 7:15); and retorts by saying that learning it on his own would be for selfish gain but that his knowledge comes from God (John 7:16-18). With the encounters I have read of Jesus quoting scripture, he rarely quotes them word for word, and he never says what book they are from (as in Matt 4:4;Deut 8:3, Matt 4:16; Is 9:1, 2). How do verses and line numbers detract from what is true? If I were to say that the Titanic sank in 1912, would you not believe me unless I told you the name of the newspaper, page and column I got it from (The Syracuse Herald Apr 15, 1912, Page1)? Or the time stamp in the Leonardo Dicaprio movie in which it happened (2:25:15)? I believe it to be a funny state that we expect non-believers to take our words on faith, when believers within our own church refuse to do so. For people that need signs or proof before believing, Christ refers to them as "wicked and perverse"...for this one I will not add the referencing scripture because I find it a far greater learning experience if you seek out the truth of it's reference as opposed to being given it.

Now to further elaborate about animal vs divine vs angelic vs image of God beings.God created the heaven's and the earth, animals, plants,etc (Gen 1) but when he created man, it is said that man was created in his own image (Gen 1:27)...but I do not take that to mean we "look" like God. God created man in two stages, first He formed us from the earth, then he breathed His breath into us (Gen 2:7). I take the image of God to mean His breath (or spirit). I don't believe that we physically look like God because God is not a physical being. We cannot lay our physical eyes on Him because we need spiritual sight to see Him. God's image, instead, is the spirit that dwells within us. I can only assume that the majesty of the Angels were fashioned by the same hand that fashioned the majesty within us.

As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, that is something that comes upon us (Lu 2:25), not something that was assigned to us when we were created. The Holy Spirit is God's hand working within us, and it is something that mankind can refuse. It is possible that Adam and Eve initially had the Holy Spirit while they dwelt with God the Garden of Eden, but they were banished to prevent them from becoming like God (Genisis 4:22 referencing the Trinity). Since the fall, we are called to reverse the fault of Adam and Eve and once again become like God and attaining the Holy Spirit. I hope this helps clarify things. Hit me up with anymore questions. I'm happy to share! [:D]



rcjames -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 5:03:19 PM)

Can you be saved and be Lost at same

No, it is an either/or situation.


Thanks
RC



LCannon -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 5:33:02 PM)

James 3:10-"From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening fresh water and brackish? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a grapevine figs? No more can salt water yield fresh."



tsnody2001 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 5:36:17 PM)

I was simply pointing out that we are not animals. We are not angels, nor are we "blessed with the spirit of the angels", as your post indicated. Yes, angels are spirit beings, and yes, humans have spirits, but they (angels and humans) are not one and the same. My post was not meant to be a debate. Travis



tsnody2001 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/29/2008 5:42:41 PM)

I don't think the OP means "lost" as in the sense of NOT being saved. Read my post #10 above. But if that IS the meaning of their question, then No, you cannot be saved and lost at the same time. Travis



OneJohn410 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (6/30/2008 10:50:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmarchal

Hello OneJohn410, KnowJesus

When we look at the definition of "been saved" in the Natural, (for we know what is true in the natural is also true in the spiritual, and what is true in the spiritual is also true in the nature.) It’s to be Deliver from. For we understand that we are deliver from the hands of the enemies, or from destruction, and brought it to the Kingdom of our Lord and savior. The Only wait to lose our SALVATION is stopping believing (Faith). For the scripture said:
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In other end " Been lost" has to do with your Location(where you are in Christ). The purpose of writing such topics is to encourage believer that it is ok to feel sense of been lost even thou we have faith in God.
The Lord is requiring more of you to come higher in him.

When I look at the definition of the Natural, meaning what's happening here on Earth, and then read my Bible, your first argument fails. In the Spritual, which I place beyond the stuff of Earth, there's no pain, suffering, feelings of being lost, tears. No one is lost in heaven. WE don't know that what's happening on Earth today is what's happening in the spiritual (HEAVEN). In fact, we know that to not be true, because the stuff of earth is temporary, while the stuff of the spiritual is eternal.

Salvation is a two part process, but is nothing I can undo once God has performed His part. He performed that part long before most everything- there's no telling when He did it, because His ways are not our ours, and His timing is not ours. I'm not talkng about saying it was about 2,000 years ago. I'm talking about when it was God decided that that was how He was going to defeat Satan. If I don't consider being saved a process in which God is involved, then I can certainly define when I am worthy of living eternally with Him and when I'm not. If I believe He's got any part of that process, then nothing can touch the net result. You can't undo a God act.

This is a really poorly worded OP and follow-up to your simple introduction. There's no room in it for suggestions that man was cursed with the body of an animal and blessed with the spirit of angels? The lengthy discourse on how the Bible has been organized over the years does not impact its significance, nor its message. People try their faith in order to spread it, not to maintain their salvation. Those actions are in thanks for what they've received. Imagine someone receiving something of great, great worth, locking it up and never using it, and then grovelling at the feet of the person that gave it to them for the rest of their life, to prove they were worthy of receiving it. That's not what being saved is about. The Savior and gift-giver wants the receiver to get out in the world WITH the gift, enjoy life, and use the gift.

Your attempt at encouraging me with your original posting of questions is an odd way of arguing things. People can think lots of things, even that man has been cursed with the body of an animal. The structuring of the Bible and how Jesus used it during his time of Earth... as stated does nothing for your OP and follow-up. Maybe people long ago studied writings as much as we study TV sets today, and knew where things were in the Bible because of it. Suggesting Jesus didn't know exactly what was written in the Bible is frankly absurd. How much of the New Testament was written after He ascended? Most of it. Even then, want to tell me the Creator on Earth didn't know exactly what would later be written?

I was hoping you'd help me understand what you were writing about. There's temptation in saying "Help! I'm lost!" when in fact you are saved, and trying to give up. There's strength is saying "Help, Lord! I don't know where I am, but I know You do. Show me the way!" and then being still, seeking quiet, and listening for the Lord to direct you. Putting your other questions in that same mindset take care of them as well. Don't go out in the woods and try to talk to cursed animals with no angel's breath. Look at the flowers of the field and the birds of the air. What cares do they have? Do you think God loves you less than those poor cursed birds? It's not okay to think so. That's some heavy duty grovelling, my friend.

OneJohn410



lmarchal -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/15/2008 11:47:03 AM)

May God be the Glory

I just want to thank you for your response. All we do must reflect the image of our Lord and savior. Be bless now



deermousie -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/15/2008 12:17:58 PM)

quote:

Where am I ?


Either in God's will or out of it. Geo-physically, I'm on earth somewhere.

quote:

Who am I?


A being created by God for His purposes.

quote:

What is my purpose?


Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.

These kind of questions are great for the Westminster Catechism. I wish I'd read it as a kid. http://www.reformed.org/documents/WSC.html is the shorter catechism.

quote:

Where am i going after this life?


The saved believer goes to live with God forever in joy ("Enter into the joy of My Kingdom") and the unsaved unbeliever is cast away from God to live forever in hell.

As Christians, we can be carnal ("serving the flesh/sin nature") and be confused because our hearts are deceitful and so is sin. Or we can be fixing the things in our lives we know don't honor God or are sin, and life becomes clearer as we read our Bibles and see what God has planned for us (all those promises!).

quote:

for we know what is true in the natural is also true in the spiritual, and what is true in the spiritual is also true in the nature.


Where in the Bible is this? You lost me.



LivingParadox -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/15/2008 12:23:19 PM)

Can you be lost and saved at the same time?

No.

You can be saved and In Sin but you can't stay there and be comforming to Christ. And the other choice is you are not in Christ.



drussell52 -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/15/2008 12:51:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slushie

No you cannot be saved and lost at the same time. Your purpose is to do God's will. When you know what Christ has done for you and what he's doing in your life, then how can you not know where you are and what you're supposed to do?

Slushy, pardon but I disagree with you. I think Dave W's observation in that this is being asked on a cultural and evangelical level is right on. You can be redeemed by the blood of Jesus and yet lost or temporarily disabled by things that occur in life, natural disaters, failed marriage, wayward kids, down-turn in vocation, health, etc. Come on get real with this! The all out sinner is gonna reject Jesus and what He has to offer, think of the 4 kinds of people described in the parable of the sower. So in my opinion one can be being saved and temporarily lost in terms of direction in life. Realize Spiritually and temporally the LORD is your shepherd you shall not always be in want.. PS23.



rcjames -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/15/2008 3:23:29 PM)

There are many folks that are lost and live like it, but claim to be saved.

Thanks
RC



wearhisname -> RE: Can you be saved and be Lost at same time? (9/16/2008 12:57:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drussell52

quote:

ORIGINAL: slushie

No you cannot be saved and lost at the same time. Your purpose is to do God's will. When you know what Christ has done for you and what he's doing in your life, then how can you not know where you are and what you're supposed to do?

Slushy, pardon but I disagree with you. I think Dave W's observation in that this is being asked on a cultural and evangelical level is right on. You can be redeemed by the blood of Jesus and yet lost or temporarily disabled by things that occur in life, natural disaters, failed marriage, wayward kids, down-turn in vocation, health, etc. Come on get real with this! The all out sinner is gonna reject Jesus and what He has to offer, think of the 4 kinds of people described in the parable of the sower. So in my opinion one can be being saved and temporarily lost in terms of direction in life. Realize Spiritually and temporally the LORD is your shepherd you shall not always be in want.. PS23.

quote:

Slushy, pardon but I disagree with you. I think Dave W's observation in that this is being asked on a cultural and evangelical level is right on. You can be redeemed by the blood of Jesus and yet lost or temporarily disabled by things that occur in life, natural disaters, failed marriage, wayward kids, down-turn in vocation, health, etc. Come on get real with this! The all out sinner is gonna reject Jesus and what He has to offer, think of the 4 kinds of people described in the parable of the sower. So in my opinion one can be being saved and temporarily lost in terms of direction in life. Realize Spiritually and temporally the LORD is your shepherd you shall not always be in want.. PS23.


I totally Agree !!!!



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