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[Poll]
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Exactly what is sin?
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| willful violation of a known law of God |
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| falling short of God's perfect mark |
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| violation of God's laws, whether known or not |
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| The sin nature is always with us |
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| the sin nature can be eradicated |
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| I don't sin, but sometimes I do make "Mistakes" |
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| Other |
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Total Votes : 140
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(last vote on : 11/9/2008 1:42:35 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/27/2008 8:43:55 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
What, exactly, do you feel this verse is teaching? For example, one could say that my car does not come from faith - it came from the Honda factory. Does that make it sinful? Obviously not! So, what, in your opinion, does this verse teach?
Faith is not something that hangs by itself out there in the ether. Faith must have an object. The object of our faith, as Christians, is Jesus Christ.
"...everything that does not come from faith in Jesus Christ is sin."
Does that make more sense? Our faith is in Christ. If are attitudes and our actions are not originating with Christ, then they are originating from another source. What makes it sin is that it is not of God.
Man is created as a dependent creature. We do not like to hear that, and we certainly do not want to believe that. But, we are dependent creatures. Our choice is always and at all times, in whom will we place our dependency?
That's how the cookie crumbles for me.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/27/2008 8:58:24 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
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quote:
quote:
and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
What, exactly, do you feel this verse is teaching? And what about the corollary? Is everything that comes from faith not sin?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/27/2008 12:31:53 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
If are attitudes and our actions are not originating with Christ, then they are originating from another source. What makes it sin is that it is not of God.
I'm not quite sure I agree, just in that I feel there are some decisions God allows us to make entirely on our own. For example, let's say we're driving down the highway, and we get hungry. We see a sign that tells us that at the next exit, there's a Burger King, and a Wendy's. I don't think that our decision to go to one above the other has to have it's origin in Christ.
In general, though, I do agree - it's just when we get down to the nit-picky stuff that I see a problem.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/27/2008 1:44:24 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
If are attitudes and our actions are not originating with Christ, then they are originating from another source. What makes it sin is that it is not of God.
I'm not quite sure I agree, just in that I feel there are some decisions God allows us to make entirely on our own. For example, let's say we're driving down the highway, and we get hungry. We see a sign that tells us that at the next exit, there's a Burger King, and a Wendy's. I don't think that our decision to go to one above the other has to have it's origin in Christ.
In general, though, I do agree - it's just when we get down to the nit-picky stuff that I see a problem.
It doesn't matter where you eat, what matters is that you are depending on the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. If you are abiding in Christ, depending on Him, then everything you do is spiritual. As you go, He works in and through you.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 2:08:06 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
If you are abiding in Christ, depending on Him, then everything you do is spiritual. As you go, He works in and through you. Choosing between BK and Wendy's is spiritual just because Christ abides in me? That's ridiculous, URF! What is spiritual is the way God works in me during the interactions I have with others at whichever fast food joint I frequent. Let's not dilute the significance of spiritual matters by equating them to picking out the color of socks in the morning! I think God has much more important stuff to accomplish through us than that.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 3:39:18 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1508
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Then why are there commandments to make restitution for unintentional acts?
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in debating people over the law. This is simply not an issue for me as a Christian who has been freed by the grace of Jesus Christ. There is a well used thread for those who are interested, as I am sure you are aware.
Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread
Peace
Ro 7:7 "What shall we say, then? . . . Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
Then how is one to answer the question? Is appears, in light of Paul's observation, that if the law is not an issue for someone, then sin is not an issue either. I am not trying to start a debate about the law. I am merely pointing out that Paul believes that is where we go if we want to know what sin is.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 6/28/2008 3:46:19 AM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 10:29:05 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
If you are abiding in Christ, depending on Him, then everything you do is spiritual. As you go, He works in and through you. Choosing between BK and Wendy's is spiritual just because Christ abides in me?
Just because Christ abides in me? Just? Is Christ really just an addendum to you?
Anyway, that is a perversion of what I said.
Perhaps you can see this...
There was never any one activity of Jesus Christ that was more "spiritual" than any other, because He was at all times and in all ways completely dependent upon the Father. So much so that He could say truthfully, "I do nothing on my own, but only what the Father tells me to do", and, "I and the Father are One".
And yet for 30 years Jesus lived a relatively common and uneventful life. That was the Fathers good will and pleasure for Jesus Christ for 30 years, and during that time every act and every behavior of Jesus was just as spiritual as when He raised someone from the dead, or walked on water.
In the same way that Christ, in His humanity, lived in total dependence upon God the Father, in that same way the life of the Christian is one of living in total dependecy upon Jesus Christ, through His indwelling Spirit. When we are abiding in Him, then we can truly say that for us to live is Christ.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 10:45:32 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Then why are there commandments to make restitution for unintentional acts?
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in debating people over the law. This is simply not an issue for me as a Christian who has been freed by the grace of Jesus Christ. There is a well used thread for those who are interested, as I am sure you are aware.
Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread
Peace
Ro 7:7 "What shall we say, then? . . . Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
Then how is one to answer the question? Is appears, in light of Paul's observation, that if the law is not an issue for someone, then sin is not an issue either. I am not trying to start a debate about the law. I am merely pointing out that Paul believes that is where we go if we want to know what sin is.
Because the question is not do we know what sin is? The question is, what is sin? But, you are correct when you say, "...that if the law is not an issue for someone, then sin is not an issue either." I could not have said it better nor could I agree more.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 6:15:39 PM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2921
Joined: 4/13/2005
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John 8:29 (King James Version)
29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone;
for I do always those things that please him.
Do any of us ALWAYS do what pleases The Father ?
Nope, because we sin.
It's a bit tragic that some reverently proclaim
that they have not sinned in a certain timeframe.
That's nice...they still sin. God still hates sin.
When someone piously declares that they have
avoided sin in "x" years, that sure sounds proud.
Conveniently, those who believe they do not sin for
great lenghts of time, seem to ignore the fact that by
not living continuously in the ALWAYS is sinning.
IOW, are you ALWAYS in God's will 100 % of the time ?
Additionally, it appears delusional that anyone could
possibly (with a straight face) say they love God with
ALL their heart, mind, and strength. ALL? Hardly...
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 10:16:50 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
There was never any one activity of Jesus Christ that was more "spiritual" than any other I fail to see the "spiritual" aspect of Jesus sleeping through a storm. Please enlighten me, URF.
quote:
So much so that He could say truthfully, "I do nothing on my own, but only what the Father tells me to do", and, "I and the Father are One". So you're postulating that Jesus waited for His Father to tell Him when and what to eat every meal? Doubtful!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 10:19:43 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
There was never any one activity of Jesus Christ that was more "spiritual" than any other I fail to see the "spiritual" aspect of Jesus sleeping through a storm. Please enlighten me, URF.
quote:
So much so that He could say truthfully, "I do nothing on my own, but only what the Father tells me to do", and, "I and the Father are One". So you're postulating that Jesus waited for His Father to tell Him when and what to eat every meal? Doubtful!
My friend you have missed it entirely. But then, I really expected nothing else.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/28/2008 10:21:49 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
My friend you have missed it entirely. But then, I really expected nothing else. So is this your "spiritual" answer or your carnal answer?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/29/2008 2:51:21 AM
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swimming_politic
Posts: 1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
You may choose more than one item on the poll.
What exactly is sin? Seems we have a lot of definitions, depending on theological background.
Can we keep from sinning? Is it inevitable for the believer to sin?
Has anyone ever stopped sinning completely? (I know some who calim it)
Should we "sin boldly", as some say, relying on Gods grace? Or does that just cheapen and use up grace?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God Forbid!
Discuss sin, what it is, and anything related to it.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/29/2008 3:38:42 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1508
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Because the question is not do we know what sin is? The question is, what is sin? But, you are correct when you say, "...that if the law is not an issue for someone, then sin is not an issue either." I could not have said it better nor could I agree more.
Peace
Then we don't need to know what sin is, because it is not an issue?
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/29/2008 8:11:03 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Because the question is not do we know what sin is? The question is, what is sin? But, you are correct when you say, "...that if the law is not an issue for someone, then sin is not an issue either." I could not have said it better nor could I agree more.
Peace
Then we don't need to know what sin is, because it is not an issue?
That is not the question of this thread.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/29/2008 1:10:31 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3647
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
What exactly is sin? Seems we have a lot of definitions, depending on theological background.
Post 57: Sins of ignorance dealt with in Leviticus 4:2ff, 4:13ff, 4:22ff, 4:27ff, 5:17ff, 5:15ff, 5:27ff and other Scriptures in Numbers
Post 69: Romans 14:23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Post 70: James 4:17 The one who knows to do good and doesn't do it has sinned.
Post 72: Romans 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 6:13 - Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
Psalm 19:13 - Keep your servant also from willful sins; may they not rule over me. Then will I be blameless, innocent of great transgression.
Post 73: 1 John 3:4 - Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Post 81: Ro 7:7 "What shall we say, then? . . . Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
(Scriptures offered so far.)
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 6/29/2008 1:17:00 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 6/29/2008 2:31:14 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 66
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"All unrighteousness is sin. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotton of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." IJohn 5:17-18
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him. Little children, let no man decieve you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Ijohn 3:4-9
"If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleansth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." IJohn 1:7-9
Everybody is a sinner, and needs to acknowledge that fact. Once we acknowledge that we are all sinners then we just need to confess our sins to God and ask Him to forgive us by recieving Jesus as our Lord and Saviour. Once we do this we are born of God and Jesus washes away our sins. Once we ask Jesus to come into our lives and save us from our sins we have done righteousness and are therefore righteous, just as He is righteous. (To clarify this point: it' not that we are righteous in ourselves, but that Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. It's all by His grace, love, and mercy, not by our own good works and keeping of the rules.)
Personally I checked all of the points in the poll: here's why:
!) Sin is a willful violation of the known law of God: "Whosever commmitteth sin transgesseth also the law."
2)Sin is falling short of God's perfect mark. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." If we sin, of course we're going to come short of God's perfect mark.
3)The violation of God's law, whether known or not: Not matter how hard you try to work at keeping the law your still going to fall short of the glory of God, even if you didn't know you were being disobedient.
4)The sin nature is always with us: Sin was brought into the world because of Adam and Eve's transgression in the Garden of Eden. Because of this, sin passed upon all men, (and women) thereafter, so that man's sinful, nature will always be there. "For that all have sinned" This is what the Apostle Paul was talking about in Romans 7: "For that which I do I allow not; for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate that do I. Now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me, For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing; for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:15-20
5) The sin nature can be eradicated: Yes, by recieving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour so He can wash away our sins and our unrighteousness. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil."
6) Other: "All unrighteousness in sin."
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 7:01:38 AM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
Posts: 33
Joined: 7/3/2008
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This response is a portion of a chapter from my new book, Christian Mythology.
Sin – Myth: Christians are free from the power and penalty of sin
You have heard of the “Three P’s” of sin: its presence, power, and penalty. You have heard that upon salvation, Jesus has set us free from sin’s power and penalty. But we still must endure the presence of sin until we get to heaven. To understand the myth in all three of these, let’s first understand what they mean.
The presence of sin is simply the reality of the sin nature indwelling all of mankind as well as the natural effects of sin in the world as we know from Romans 5.
The penalty of sin is death as we know from Romans 6:23.
The power of sin is the law as we know from I Corinthians 15:56
Let’s start with the easiest myth to bust first. We will not be free from the presence of sin until the second heaven. Only then will these facts have taken place:
Satan, the false prophet, and the beast will have been thrown into the lake of fire forever. (Revelation 20:10)
Satan will no longer be able to enter heaven and approach God and thereby pollute the holy place as he did in Job 1.
The old heaven and the old earth will have been burned up and there will be a new heaven and a new earth undefiled by the evil one. (II Peter 3:7, 10)
All those not found written in the book of life will have been thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15, 21:27)
Does that mean that we will still be aware of sin’s presence after we die and are present with the Lord but before the new heaven and new earth come along? Yes we will. Will we still have the battle between the flesh and the spirit at that time? No we will not. Sin only has power in our mortal bodies. Romans 6:12 – “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
Perhaps I'll post additional busted myths later.
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 10:01:08 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1971
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From: Kansas
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quote:
Let’s start with the easiest myth to bust first. We will not be free from the presence of sin until the second heaven. Only then will these facts have taken place:
I don’t think this would be considered a myth as such…I think this is the accepted principle; that we will never in this life be without the sin nature. The thought that we can be sin free is not the majority.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 3:17:48 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4106
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In the Hebraic understanding of the authors of the NT, there were 3 related but distinct concepts from the Hebrew (OT) scriptures:
Sin - a missing of the mark. An archery term used to indicate not hitting the target.
Transgression - a willful disobedience of a command.
Iniquity - the transgenerational effects and predispositions based on sin and transgression.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 4:06:37 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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Oooo! Wait! I know! I know!
When I am bad! There, I told you I knew it!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 4:25:59 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
When I am bad!
solarflare, I don't think this is what you were suggesting, but it did bring up a question in my mind.
I've sometimes heard some people talk as if when they do something poorly (perhaps they got a bad grade in school) despite applying themselves diligently, yet they seem to think that their failure is somehow morally wrong. Has anyone else ever experienced this (either personally or in others), and if so, do you have any opinions on it?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 5:27:39 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
solarflare, I don't think this is what you were suggesting
You are right (given my momentary laspe in seriousness) - but your question is excellent!
Thanks!
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